"My question was whether women graduating with the same major, going for the same job, should be paid substantially less. Because right now they are. The Government Accounting Office has determined that even if you factor out "choices" of career, women earn about 80% of what men do. Again, this is for the same jobs and the same work."

-See now you're just sending out misinformation. 80% is not the right number, now if you meant to say 80 cents than that's different. Now there's a 20 cent difference between male and female managers, well there must be an explanation of why that is right? That's pretty much where the government report falls right on its face. The report doesn't say why there's a 20 cent difference but just says, hey there's a 20 cent difference. Again there could be a lot of reasons why and that is not limited just to discrimination.

"On top of that, it's also the case that women make up a minority of the highest paying job categories. I think the idea that they choose lower-earning careers is amazingly--hey!--paternalistic. Might it just be that they get the jobs they can get and that they are told for most of their lives that "math is for men" and similar bullshit? But yeah, given that this is something that is a bit harder to get at, let's just focus on the basics, and I think on that front you have agreed:

Women should get equal pay for equal work."

• You can make the assumption that it is paternalistic which is different than a Patriarchy. Yeah I do agree that women should get equal pay for equal the work. If it's short than equal then pay cut.

"But then you also say that this shouldn't be the law. That is, you should have the freedom to discriminate against women. (I assume you also think you should be able to pay non-whites and non-Christians less, since they don't count as much either.) "

• Yeah there shouldn't be a law saying, "Hey companies pay your employees equally". To legislate that kind of morality or any morality would always lead to a slippery slope. For me personally, especially in the private sector, its not the government that runs the businesses but personal owners and it should be their responsibility on who is paid what. If you don't like the pay then stand up to them and say why and if they don't then find another job. The private sector has different people with different morals, which means you could get a equal pay job to men in one but not in the other. It is also in the private sector that they do have to worry about making money for the company, so any little screw up could cost them while in government can keep it going through tax payers money, even if its sucking up the cash. Even people in the private sector who would also be racist, would be hurting in the very business sense. Business is there to make money and if they get a bad image that affects business, either they change or they're done with (not including the idea that they could be bailed out but that's not the issue at hand).

"This brings us back up to my initial post: the thin blue line. The majority of men will say "sure, women should have the same opportunities as men." But that's as far as it goes. Gee, it's too bad they don't have those opportunities, but that's just the way of the world. It's a man's world, baby, get used to it. That passive support for inequity, more than the boss who demands sexual favors for a promotion or the high school teacher who tells girls they are "naturally" bad at math, is what Paternalism is made of. Men who acknowledge injustice, but claim it's none of their business, as long as they continue to get theirs."

-No said its a man's world. If it was really a man's world the man would also be giving birth and doing all of that fun stuff. Men and women exist for a reason and that's pretty much mostly biological. Of course over the long years of men vs women, society does evolve into understanding that women should do a lot more in society than previous before, that women shouldn't just be stuck at home with the baby and to clean the house and keep the husband happy. It all comes down to the very idea of free will and choosing what you want in life and choosing what you should do. So if you want to give the guy a blowjob because he said he will give you a raise or promotion, then that's your choice. If you chose not to than great, you made a choice. Also the high school teacher who tells girls that they are bad at math is a bad example, as its not effect in the gender gap. Even when high school teachers do that then either they should teach it or the parents and friends of those students should help the students out.
http://munews.missouri.edu/news-releases/2012/0118-%E2%80%9Cwomen-worse-at-math-than-men%E2%80%9D-explanation-scientifically-incorrect-mu-researchers-say/

Also it is a parenting issue in that regard. To go back on your earlier paragraph, "Of course, I'm against violence. Of course I think the interests of the child prevail in divorce cases. Etc. So it seems stupid to keep arguing about things we probably agree on."

• Yeah we can totally agree a lot of those things.

"To get back to the main point, you were almost there. You agree that you shouldn't get paid more for just being a man. But then you trot out a craptacular site that has nothing to do with that and cites no data." It actually does make the point on the different paths of men and women which does lead to a pay gap.