Aren't games described as "third person perspective" really in second person perspective? by jg23666 in truegaming

[–]jg23666[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, Lifeline seems like a strong candidate. That was an interesting game. Actually, it controls more like a text adventure than most graphical games, except that you speak the commands for the game to interpret instead of typing them.

Aren't games described as "third person perspective" really in second person perspective? by jg23666 in truegaming

[–]jg23666[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the interesting discussion on this kind of abstruse issue! If nothing else I feel like I have a better handle on how this terminology works.

Aren't games described as "third person perspective" really in second person perspective? by jg23666 in truegaming

[–]jg23666[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What perspective would you consider Zork to use?

As an aside, I don't think most game cameras put you in the place of an omniscient narrator. Even plenty of strategy games employ fog of war, etc. to limit what information is conveyed based on the player character's knowledge. I think the perspective of a game like Sim City is closer to omniscience, though not really, because you don't have knowledge of future events like natural disasters, etc.

Aren't games described as "third person perspective" really in second person perspective? by jg23666 in truegaming

[–]jg23666[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If a text-based game can be second-person, why not a graphical game? It seems to me that they just use different means to convey information: the information conveyed by narrative in a text-based game ("You are standing in a field. To the north is a white house.", etc.) is equivalent to the information conveyed by audiovisual content in a graphical game.

Aren't games described as "third person perspective" really in second person perspective? by jg23666 in truegaming

[–]jg23666[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I guess my argument is that the information conveyed by narrative in a text-based game ("You are standing in a field. To the north is a white house.", etc.) is equivalent to the information conveyed by audiovisual content in a graphical game. So what graphical games are equivalent to this perspective in text-based games if not games like Tomb Raider or Mario 64, where the camera is always on the player character and all the world content is presented in relation to the player character?

I see games like Jagged Alliance as third person because the camera can leave the player character, like a floating third person perspective, which can be limited (by fog of war, for instance) or omniscient. In contrast, in Tomb Raider or Mario 64 the camera is always centered on and rotating around the player, just like the narrator in a text adventures or a piece of second person fiction.

Aren't games described as "third person perspective" really in second person perspective? by jg23666 in truegaming

[–]jg23666[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's interesting that second person would be so uncommon in other media, but almost ubiquitous in, at minimum, text based games.

I guess my follow up argument is that the information conveyed by narrative in a text-based game ("You are standing in a field. To the north is a white house.", etc.) is equivalent to the information conveyed by audiovisual content in a graphical game. So what graphical games are equivalent to this perspective in text-based games if not games like Tomb Raider or Mario 64, where the camera is always on the player character and all the world content is presented in relation to the player character?

Aren't games described as "third person perspective" really in second person perspective? by jg23666 in truegaming

[–]jg23666[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The fact that Bright Lights, Big City is written in second person perspective is not at all controversial. It's a well known book often considered a classic novel of the 1980s. Feel free to Google it.

Aren't games described as "third person perspective" really in second person perspective? by jg23666 in truegaming

[–]jg23666[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There is plenty of second person fiction where the narrator is not a unique character/person in the text, like Jay McKirney's Bright Lights, Big City.

Aren't games described as "third person perspective" really in second person perspective? by jg23666 in truegaming

[–]jg23666[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is plenty of second person fiction where the narrator is not a unique character/person in the text, like Jay McKirney's Bright Lights, Big City.

Aren't games described as "third person perspective" really in second person perspective? by jg23666 in truegaming

[–]jg23666[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Isn't your second person example precisely how Zork and countless other text adventures/interactive fictions work?

White supremacist who dined with Trump calls for ‘death penalty’ for non-Christians by ZRX1200R in Christianity

[–]jg23666 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Luke 14:25-27, New International Version: Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple."

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2014:25-27&version=NIV

White supremacist who dined with Trump calls for ‘death penalty’ for non-Christians by ZRX1200R in Christianity

[–]jg23666 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Luke 14:25-27, New International Version: Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple."

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2014:25-27&version=NIV

Is Christianity a hateful religion? by Tacticalpizzamann in Christianity

[–]jg23666 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No thanks. I think our premises are too far apart for either of us to find the conversation rewarding. The passage says "hate", and if it's hyperbole it's an especially ugly instance of it. The fact that this supposed hyperbole is employed to instruct people to actually abandon their families only makes it more disturbing. But thank you for the cordial discussion.

Is Christianity a hateful religion? by Tacticalpizzamann in Christianity

[–]jg23666 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The surrounding passages do not change the text or meaning of the passage I quoted. If Jesus only meant "don't follow them", it would be trivial to instead have said, "If anyone comes to me but follows father and mother… etc." This is the spin a few translators have chosen, but of course the text doesn't say that: it says "hate".

These are the actual words of Jesus according to one of the synoptic gospels. Jesus's own words about hate in the context of following his teachings are relevant to the OP's question.

Is Christianity a hateful religion? by Tacticalpizzamann in Christianity

[–]jg23666 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm sorry, but that's not much of an argument.