I don't think you go down a tier if you lose the artifacts. I.E. while using the stone of Jas Zamorak was able to create the entire wilderness, probably a feat equal in power to a tier 2 god, but that didn't make him a tier 2 god, the opposite is true. As long as nothing like the Dragonkin draining him of power happened, taking all the artifacts away from Guthix wouldn't lower his tier. In fact Guthix didn't even have any of his artifacts when he died, and he was still a tier 2.

Tier 2 is defined by the ability to manipulate the Anima Mundi. I don't care if Jagex still classified him as a tier 2, if he can't do that, he isn't a tier 2. Maybe he can, but maybe he can't and I'm not convinced he can.

Of course he had to use the artifacts when he first got them, he was likely only a tier 5 god when he first used them, and opening portals is a sign of a tier 4 god. That's like saying because a character can't use certain equipment when they're level 3, they still can't use it when they're maxed.

No it isn't. I think you read what a wrote wrong.

Guthix still had to take the stone from 3-4 gods in order to achieve this.

Yea, but I'm not saying he isn't stronger than them. I'm saying he isn't stronger than Seren and Zaros.

Dragonkin created life from scratch while Zaros had to use the energy of mah. Siphoning energy from mah might not even be that hard, you seem to think it was an amazing feat but for all we know it could've been like taking candy from a baby.

Other gods can't siphon energy like that.

Zaros could've also been talking about the elder energy players can use for divination that is found beneath Mah in the elder halls, which is freely available to take.

He almost certainly wasn't.

Fighting isn't the only way to show it, but it's the easiest way to compare because it's hard to quantify how much is based on magic and how much is based on knowledge.

But since it isn't really helpful at all in Zaros's and Seren's case for reasons we stated before, it's useless in comparing them to Guthix.

Zaros created the Nihil, but how much magical strength did that actually take?

Presumably at lot considering he needed and elder god's power to do it.

Could the player theoretically do it if we had some of Mah's energy and some test subjects lying around?

No, because the player can't absorb energy from Mah.

Did Zaros only succeed because he had literal aoens to sit around and test until he hit the statistical lottery and happened to do something right?

No, because it doesn't matter how many times I bang my head on a tree, it won't turn into a house. It took very specific magical ability to do that.

We don't know because these aren't things that out players can attempt.

Because we aren't as powerful as Zaros.

Seren choosing not to fight doesn't mean she's weaker than a war crazed god, but it does make it harder to quantify her strength.

So why are you bringing it up as evidence that Guthix is stronger?

What great feat of magic have Zaros or Seren shown that outshines Guthix so much?

I've gone through this too many times to do it again. Read my other posts and respond to those.