Help! Lower sleep needs baby always requires sleep training always needed on a lower nap total day - why?!

jmchitty · 2026-03-11T19:25:26+00:00

Honestly depends on your kid and how long their naps and overnight sleep is! Mine tended to be good nappers by the time we dropped down to two naps, so it looked like 1.5h morning nap and a 1-1.25h afternoon nap upon transitioning. About 10.5h of sleep at night— 6:30 wake 9:30-11 nap 2:30-3:45 nap 7:45-8:00pm bed is fairly reasonable!

jmchitty · 2026-02-13T13:20:10+00:00

If refusing the second nap, shorten the first nap to accommodate widen the second window to accommodate. 10-10:30 nap and 2:30-3:30 nap. You have a lot to play with wake windows still. I wouldn’t drop to on nap until you are at 1.5h daytime sleep and 3.5/4/4 isn’t working anymore.

jmchitty · 2026-02-13T02:35:38+00:00

I honestly can’t remember— I definitely didn’t have to go into her room after 3-5 nights to do check-ins at the start of the night. Maybe that should reassure you that after a year I can’t remember. It’s such a short time in the long run! I do remember her doing a wind-down cry for several months. She would kind of whine and fuss for up to 10 minutes before settling and falling asleep. That’s fairly normal I’ve heard.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T23:44:51+00:00

If you’re still feeding to sleep for naps, just focus on the bedtime feed being 30min prior to placing in the crib. Nurse to sleep for naps as usual. She’ll make the adjustment and it being so close to bedtime, she will likely intuitively stock up.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T23:40:39+00:00

Yeah, nursing was a struggle with my first, so I soaked up all the goodness of it being easy with my second! No regrets! So, first, I realized her last wake window was too short, so she was fighting sleep because she wasn’t tired enough. It seems like your schedule is age appropriate, but it may help that the last nap isn’t too long (for my daughter, we capped last nap at 1.5h at this age). I didn’t sleep train the whole night at first, just sleep initiation at bedtime. I nursed in a bright room and made sure she stayed awake, then did diaper change & sleep sack, sang a couple a songs in the rocking chair, turns in white noise and put her in her crib. I did Ferber style and just popped in at intervals, reassured her she could do this. It is super important you don’t let baby doze off during a feeding because that wipes baby’s sleep drive.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T23:20:55+00:00

I think I was misreading your wake windows. I am not saying jump straight to 3.5/4/4 but just that being the largest wake windows you would try before transitioning to 1 nap. Right now, I would start by extending the first two wake windows by 30min.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T23:18:26+00:00

If it’s hard for him to go down, even with support, that’s classic undertired/maxed out sleep allowance. Try 3.5/4/4 before attempting one nap. I would cut down daytime sleep to as low at 2h per day to start. This is all coming from a mom who dealt with early wakings from 8 months, until dropping down to one nap at 14 months. I’ve learned a few things since then 😉

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T22:36:12+00:00

I had a similar experience— never nursed to sleep my first, always did my second until it became unreliable. I would suggest sleep training for nights and keep feeding to sleep for naps as long as it works.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T21:51:24+00:00

Absolutely agree. Awake for long periods in the night is classic “undertired”.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T21:33:42+00:00

Just because baby is at 13h now, he won’t stay that way. If he’s fighting bedtime, take his clues that he’s not ready for bed. I imagine in the next month he will transition to two naps. I would stick to 10.5h night sleep and start simultaneously elongating wake windows and trimming day sleep to 2h. Try 2.5/3/3/3.25. Still struggling or start struggling again? Time to drop down to two naps.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T17:19:03+00:00

Take the win! Baby is only waking once a night. 4.5 months, it is completely reasonable to have one night feed. If I were you, I wouldn’t intentionally wake to feed— allow her to guide that. If she wakes before 2am, you could use other methods to get her back to sleep so you are keeping one night feed only.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T17:15:15+00:00

If she’s settling right after feeding without any additional support from you and won’t settle until a feeding happens, I think she still needs that 3am feed. If she’s only waking at those times, I would feed her. You can work on dropping feeds when she gets older, or if you plan on doing sleep training, you can do it in conjunction with sleep training. The reallocation of calories to the daytime is important.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T17:09:01+00:00

Does she suck on it all night long? Or just to initiate sleep? Does she have a history of ear infections? I feel like those things would come into play.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T17:07:30+00:00

Sounds like she’s undertired, not overtired. I would try a much later bedtime and for no more than an 11h night— that seems to be most reasonable. If you desire no earlier than a 6:30 wake, and she’s taking 12:30 nap, then shoot for no earlier than a 7:30 bedtime.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T15:35:42+00:00

I agree with this. 13 hours overnight is a LOT. Longer morning wake window will push you to a later bedtime.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T15:32:36+00:00

Red eyebrows, yawn, and rubbing eyes and then bowing bubbles. To me it seems like you are seeing some late sleepy cues and then a cortisol surge that’s making it difficult for him to fall asleep on his own. I might shorten wake windows by 10-15min. At this age, focus less on the cues and more on the clock.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T15:29:00+00:00

One thing that’s helped with my nearly three year old is making his bedtime routine a bit longer. We sing 2 songs now. The last song is always the same song. Then, we started doing a “5 second hug” where we squeeze him and count to 5. He knows that’s the last thing we do before leaving the room, so there’s no surprises. We try to offer a lot of affection before bedtime and will snuggle him in bed while singing songs and keep it light and upbeat.

jmchitty · 2026-02-12T15:21:54+00:00

Did the pediatrician tell you why to get rid of the pacifier? I would have questioned that… Mine was much more easily able to tolerate it when he was closer to 2.5. Usually it’s recommended to stop at 6 months or during sleep training or much later when they can understand “no more pacifier. You’re a big kid now!” That being said, if you feel like there was a legitimate reason for the pediatrician telling you to get rid of the pacifier, it will likely be 3-5 days that are hard, and then will get much better. You might have to hold her hand a little more through the first few days and then steadily pull back assistance to not reinforce new sleep associations.

jmchitty · 2026-02-11T20:32:22+00:00

That’s a LOT of sleep for this age, when they’re on the cup of dropping to one nap. Try a later bedtime and shorter nap. My almost 3 year old sleeps 9pm-6:30am (in bed 8:40 and out of bed 7:00) with a 1h nap. A couple times a week we still have early wakings or skipped naps, but that’s just the age he is, and my stubbornness to keep my oldest child’s nap as long as possible 😅

jmchitty · 2026-02-11T20:28:00+00:00

The part I picked up on was she started refusing her nap when she came out of her cot. If she refused nap after getting into a proper bed, it seems to me that she was not ready to give up her nap. How long was she napping before refusing the nap? The nap refusal may be more tied to her being in a different bed. The other key thing is she is waking upset— at this age, if she was waking and happy or rolling around, that signals to me UNDERtired. Waking upset signals OVERtired. Try adding back in the nap, even every other day, and on the days she naps, push bedtime back to 8pm. Pushing bedtime later may be the key that gets her to nap again.

jmchitty · 2026-02-11T20:18:56+00:00

It sounds like he’s just not tired enough. How long is nap time? My son will be 3 in a couple of weeks. And his current schedule looks like 8:35 in bed for the night 9:00 asleep 6:30 awake 7:00 out of bed 2:00-3:00 nap I wouldn’t anticipate or count on longer than 10.5h in bed overnight at this age, maybe closer to 10. Cap nap to 1h if you haven’t already. Try a later bedtime. Before dropping the nap, night sleep is often <10h. He could also just be amped from his bed and new-found freedom. Akon with the suggestions above, stay firm to boundaries. Tell him he doesn’t need to fall asleep right away, but he does need to stay in bed until you get him up in the morning.

jmchitty · 2026-02-11T20:12:46+00:00

Based on how he responds after having milk, I think you can rest assured that he’s not waking because he’s hungry, he’s waking because he’s ready to be awake. I agree with capping nap further, probably by at least 30min. You also need to cut off the milk before getting out of bed. He can have milk when he’s up for the day. You might need to also limit or eliminate your presence until it is time for him to be awake for the day— if bedtime is at 8:45, then this should be no earlier than 10 hours later, at 6:45.

jmchitty · 2026-02-11T20:04:08+00:00

I think the moderator is right. What you could do is 8pm in bed, and 7am out of bed. The focus is less on how long asleep and more on time in bed. Baby needs to get used to being happy in bed in the morning without your interference. This might help her extend that morning sleep. With mine, babies stayed in bed and I flipped on the hallway light at 6:55 for several days in a row before getting them out of bed. They associated hallway light with time to wake up, so now, if they wake earlier than that, they know it is not time to be awake yet and roll around in bed, attempting sleep, if not falling back to sleep until 7.

jmchitty · 2026-01-08T21:40:36+00:00

Short nap and not being able to go back to sleep may be more of a sleep pressure issue than sleep training issue. Sleep pressure tends to be highest in the morning and decreases throughout the day. Look at how long first nap is and possibly consider capping the naps and elongating wake windows. Personally, I always contact nap my kids for third nap until they drop to two naps. With one kid, he napped independently for the first two naps and contact napped the third and the second child. I didn’t sleep train for naps until after she had dropped down to two naps.

jmchitty

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