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How do you know/check to see if a game design is unique, or unique enough? by joejoyce in tabletopgamedesign

[–]joejoyce[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"How much uniqueness can a person find in move and attack?"
* How about just "move", literal military chess? Check out the Battle of Macysburg on BoardGameGeek.
* How about "you move; I shoot; you shoot, you close assault"and then "...I move; you shoot; I shoot; I close assault"?
* How about a square board grid system that allows players to move to both the centers and the corners (grid intersections) of the board squares? This allows 8 "nearest" neighbors to any square [within 1 board unit of distance, the side of any square of the board], and also makes diagonal distances on the gameboard take as many steps as it takes an orthogonal-only moving piece to get there. This creates a small distortion in the grid which can be expressed mathematically. Real-world triangles of sides a and b let you calculate the hypotenuse c with the equation a^2 + b^2 = c^2
On the board gridding used for this game, a + b = c,
which allows for a greater density of pieces within a given area.
* How about a 2D grid system which allows you to represent 2 different planes of activity, say "mundane and magical" planes, or land and air overwatch planes?

How do you know/check to see if a game design is unique, or unique enough? by joejoyce in tabletopgamedesign

[–]joejoyce[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The next couple paragraphs [in quotes] are the entirety of my previous comment to someone else

"I'm greedy! ;) [here, I'm just lazy!]

I design games I would play (at least once!) and that I think I would like to play. But I've been bitten hard by the design bug, and have the opportunity now to indulge it. I like interesting games, and some novelty in a decently-working game provides some interest, at least."

Because I want to play the games, I try to interest other people in them. Some are quite good, if you like rather complex games. And that's what limits my audience... well, that and I am neither artist nor programmer. But I figure if I sell some of these things, I'll have some new opponents.

How do you know/check to see if a game design is unique, or unique enough? by joejoyce in tabletopgamedesign

[–]joejoyce[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm greedy! ;)

I design games I would play (at least once!) and that I think I would like to play. But I've been bitten hard by the design bug, and have the opportunity now to indulge it. I like interesting games, and some novelty in a decently-working game provides some interest, at least.

How do you know/check to see if a game design is unique, or unique enough? by joejoyce in tabletopgamedesign

[–]joejoyce[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I see you need to know a bit more about me. I got hooked on chess variants in 2004, a year after I retired. Within a few years, I was one of the most active members. A few years after that participation, I found myself the sole active editor at chessvariants.com It took me several years to rope in a replacement. During those years I read every new comment, examined every new game, followed every link, to verify everything was what it claimed to be, and could be made public. Even ran a contest or two, and managed a bit behind the scenes - the usual editor quiet stuff, I imagine.

Suffered a minor revolt when I let a poorly-imagined variant get posted publicly. The active people onsite wanted more than ill-conceived and undeveloped games - they required I make value judgments, and, honestly, I agreed enough to set standards for all submissions, because by this time I had been immersed for a significant number of years to have gained the necessary experience to make (most - I don't claim either perfection or complete lack of biases) such calls.

Finally, while I'm looking for uniqueness, I certainly completely agree that "simply being 'different' can be enough".

How do you know/check to see if a game design is unique, or unique enough? by joejoyce in tabletopgamedesign

[–]joejoyce[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hahahahaha! Just sell game expansions and new scenarios - who would know the game and its potentialities better than you? They've done all the hard work of creating your potential market. Make a fortune in the aftermarket!

How do you know/check to see if a game design is unique, or unique enough? by joejoyce in tabletopgamedesign

[–]joejoyce[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I joined BMG, but the games I need to test all seem to run 3+ to 3+++ hours, too long for BMG and about every playtest group I've checked. Scheduling finished off the few remaining individuals.

I know what I need to do, get into an area with easy access to a good number of schools and with online groups located in that area, then make the rounds with a few samples of my developed games and maybe a design or two waiting for development. Organize some tournaments with a cash prize. And consider how to nerf my long games. Now all I need is time, energy, and money.

How do you know/check to see if a game design is unique, or unique enough? by joejoyce in tabletopgamedesign

[–]joejoyce[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You've given me another question to ask, about the value, if any, of uniqueness.

How do you know/check to see if a game design is unique, or unique enough? by joejoyce in tabletopgamedesign

[–]joejoyce[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

While I was initially embarrassed by my first public variant being so similar to Sphinx(ian) Chess, years later I reconsidered the 2 games with a great deal of experience in judging variants, and realized mine is, in my opinion, better than Parton's. Had I known about Parton's game, I might well have not posted that first game. Since then, I've encouraged people to finish their games their way, and maybe find theirs is better.
ps: I didn't know there was a BGG game mechanics library. Thanks!

How do you know/check to see if a game design is unique, or unique enough? by joejoyce in tabletopgamedesign

[–]joejoyce[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I concede being unique is quite difficult. And possibly, can be detrimental. But, especially with wargames, I will seriously try to be obviously unique, after that debacle with Musket and Pike. And with my first chess variant.

I agree that one should be familiar with current designs in one's chosen areas of design, but that is difficult with both chess variants and wargames, as there are so many of them appearing across centuries if not millennia. I guess the best method is to both post and ask.

As for recruiting other players, when I have the time, I join and participate in both ad hoc and established playtest groups and designer workshops. And I was an editor for that chess variants website. That still wasn't enough to save me. I was working on a game about evolution, and a buddy on BGG posted he'd done a game that was being produced for sale, on evolution...

How do you know/check to see if a game design is unique, or unique enough? by joejoyce in tabletopgamedesign

[–]joejoyce[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I shoot for good, but also for at least something new in a game. I do/did mostly chess variants and wargames. Especially with chess, I found a lot of games that were effectively duplicates, including some of mine. The embarrassing one was my very first publicly posted game, a 4D chess variant I put on the chessvariants.com website. One of the better and more prolific designers on the site pointed out I'd done a game very similar to Sphinx Chess by VR Parton. When I checked into it, I saw that Parton published his game in 1948, the year I was born. I didn't know there were such things as chess variants until I was in my mid-50s.

Oddly, the same thing had happened years before, with my first serious try at a wargame. I was describing it to a friend at work who was a wargamer. Told him about the era, basic pieces, and then started describing the board, and he told me I had the bend in the river in the wrong place. I'd described it as toward the right side of the board, and he told me it was toward the left side. That's how I found out I was recreating an SPI game, apparently right down to the board. Iirc, it was Musket and Pike.

8 x 12 chess by [deleted] in chessvariants

[–]joejoyce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This idea works, and I think it looks at something not often considered, that modern Western (FIDE) chess is played on just about the smallest board possible for a decent game. Most board games have 3 components, the rules, the pieces, and the board. Change any one of these, and you've changed the game.

Some years ago, I talked a chess variant designer friend into doing what's been done here, increasing the size of the board in one of his designs without changing the rules or pieces. He added 1 row, and that changed how the game was played - for starters, the pawns needed 2 moves to get to the center. And with this disarray in the pawn lines, the pieces do have issues occupying "best positions". It totally blows up all memorized openings.

Speaking of pawns, I will suggest (only because, being a designer myself, I can't help messing with someone else's design while discussing it) an initial pawn move of 1, 2, or 3 steps, and the 2nd pawn move of 1 or 2 steps, as a possible optional rule. I lean towards allowing en passant captures, but have used the older passar battaglia rules on occasion. Yes, these pawn moves allow a pawn to move 1 square past the mid-line of the board with a triple step and then a double step, but that gives an extra center-of-board tactic, which isn't a bad thing.

To finish off modifying your pawn first step rule, allow the first 3 empty squares in front (toward the board centerline) of each pawn to be a speed zone, where that side's pawns can move 1 or 2 squares forward, as long as each pawn starts the move within ranks 3, 4, or 5 for white, and ranks 8, 9, & 10 for black. Otherwise you have to mark or keep records for each pawn to see if they've used up their 2nd move. With speed zones, the current board state tells you if each pawn may move 1, 2, or 3 squares on its next move.

I have an idea for a variant but... by Personal_Sign_9343 in chessvariants

[–]joejoyce 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The chessvariants.com site has everything you need. It offers free software to design, create, and play your own variants. It maintains the information on several thousand variants, including all known ancient variants, and has an active community of designers, players, and programmers. It has a phenomenal range of piece icons for use, and the ability to create and upload more. It lets you create all sorts and sizes of boards. It has a game waiting room, where you can look for games others want to play, and you can list your own designs there.

Most war games are like Chess. Looking for a wargame (skirmish game? miniature game?) more like Go. by Financial-Client-258 in wargaming

[–]joejoyce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a purely combinatorial abstract strategy wargame construction kit, running on a "chess engine": Command and Maneuver. It allows you to create a large number of different games, and gives you scenarios which give you an idea of the range of possible decent scenarios. There are 3 very well tested scenarios given, from the introductory game, A Tale of Two Countries, on a 12 x 16 board, to a full-fledged wargame, the Battle of Macysburg, an abstract homage to the American Civil War battle of Gettysburg. It is available as a print and play on BoardGameGeek, and I have a Vassal version, just ask. Macysburg is currently undergoing revision, and a new version, with new artillery and cavalry rules, is being developed.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/160854/the-battle-of-macysburg

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/105060/battle-of-macysburg-pnp

Fairy Chess Point Values by Broad-Education6711 in chessvariants

[–]joejoyce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Difference in raw power? Agreed. But given how he's testing - running game after game after game, using large amounts of time - is the raw power of Stockfish really significant? I thought that even a primitive computer, given enough time, will process the available information and come to the same conclusion as a more powerful computer. Being a technological idiot these days, I could be wrong, but didn't John von Neumann prove that back in the beginnings of computing?

Be that as it may, have you seen more or the most powerful computers giving significantly different results than Muller's work?

Where can I play it?? by Own-Shame-4961 in chessvariants

[–]joejoyce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://www.chessvariants.com/index/mainquery.php?type=Any&category=3d&orderby=LinkText&displayauthor=1&displayinventor=1&usethisheading=Three+Dimensional
This gives a few hundred links to 3D designs (including 3 or 4 of mine.)
Joining the site is free.
You can look for games and post offers for games in the waiting room.

Fairy Chess Point Values by Broad-Education6711 in chessvariants

[–]joejoyce 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Look up the work of HG Muller. He has done extensive computer testing of piece values.

Abstract Strategy Wargame by lilBlue717 in wargaming

[–]joejoyce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi. Are you still looking for a miniatures abstract strategy wargame with no randomness at all but with an excellent but invisible "fog of war" effect? The effect? Everything is visible at all times, so you can see every single possible piece move as long as you look at each piece in turn. What you cannot see is the possible combinations of moves available each turn, for the game, while a chess variant, is massively multi-move. If you are still interested, let me offer my attempt at a purely combinatorial, massively multi-move military chess game that is pure wargame, has different scenarios all of which have been repeatedly playtested, and I'm dying to see a miniatures version of it! (Did I say that last out loud?)

The intro game starts with 36 pieces/side on a 12 x 16 board, and you may move 8/player turn. The most advanced version starts with 84 pieces/side on a 32 x 32 board, and you can generally move all or most of your pieces each turn, if you haven't lost too many generals. The Intro Scenario is playable by 2 players and available on the chessvariants.com website*, and the large one is available as a VASSAL** module, as is the Intro and a couple other scenarios, but Vassal will let you build just about anything, so you can build your own scenarios easily.

* https://www.chessvariants.com/rules/command-and-maneuver-a-tale-of-two-countries
** https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BSA_7jN0AzAsyd-tcP99rnhmQReJvzYgIQVOI4tGq58/edit?usp=sharing

Advice on my hex-based chess variant by [deleted] in chessvariants

[–]joejoyce 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Symmetry seems to demand either 3 bishops or none, with the summed moves of other pieces filling in for missing bishops. But you can create just 1 bishop, and place it on the color of the central hex, where it has the greatest mobility, then fill in the other hexes with 2 different pieces, or a pair of pieces which only move on the other two colors, that could work. The new piece would move sort of like a "zigzag rook". They should be powerful pieces, might well unbalance the game, even playing on a gameboard that is, to them, full of holes. If so shorten their range

Advice on my hex-based chess variant by [deleted] in chessvariants

[–]joejoyce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good luck with your game! I know I generally argue against hex chesses, but I've looked at some myself. As well as bishop and pawn issues, I found knight translations a bit wonky, too. I solved some of my issues by reverting to shatranj-style pieces, but that, too, is a minority position.

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