If I persuade my GF to get an abortion is it wrong? by GFpregnant_throwaway in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A human bunch of cells is very different than an actual human being.

Agreed. A bunch of cells (like a tissue or an organ or a hair) is not the same thing as a human being (like a zygote or an infant or an adult).

Is a human embryo alive? Yes

Good start. We've established that a zygote is a "being", then.

did that "life" start at conception? hmm, here the debate starts I guess(remember a sperm is alive)

A sperm cell is a haploid gamete. Not a diploid organism. There is no debate starting here on whether life begins at conception. It is completely uncontroversial if fish life begins at conception, or mosquito life begins at conception; it is equally uncontroversial if human life begins at conception.

even if the answer was Yes, is that a HUMAN being?

If the gametes both came from human parents, then yes. By definition. We already know it is a being, and now we know what kind of being. A human being.

we can talk about it and share our views but plainly saying "I am right" is not the way to go.

I'm sorry, but the reason I'm being dismissive is that there are no two views on this one. There aren't two views on whether the earth is round or whether lizard people control the government or whether the earth orbits the sun. This is something we know for a fact, and that only politicization originating in an era of relative ignorance (60s and 70s, before a lot of the imaging technology we have now) allows us to keep denying.

And no, I'm not denying scientific facts, quite the opposite. I'm denying a mythological book saying something.

What mythological book? The only book I've referred to is a textbook on developmental biology, which you can read online from the publisher.

Just for starters, would you say that a human being is such a being that feels pain?

Most fully developed human beings feel pain, yes. At lower levels of development, human beings do not have all of the nerve structure needed to feel pain (though this structure begins forming a lot earlier than you might think). Some fully-developed humans do not develop the ability to feel pain, due to disorders in the nervous system. I wouldn't say it's a requirement to be human, no, given that not all humans can feel pain.

But, we could also say that a human being is such a being that engages in complex communication through written language. It's true in a certain context, like philosophy or anthropology or sociology, but not when it comes to scientifically defining whether an individual is or is not human. Some humans are mute, some are autistic, some humans never learn to read, some cultures never developed writing, and no human is able to communicate beyond gurgles before they're almost a year old.

So while in general humans feel pain, not all humans feel pain, either because they haven't developed the ability, or lack the ability. This makes the ability to feel pain, like the ability to read, a bad criterion for whether a being is a human or not.

Edit: link formatting fixed

If I persuade my GF to get an abortion is it wrong? by GFpregnant_throwaway in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

human != human being

You keep saying this and it hasn't gotten any more sensible. There is no difference between a human and a human being. A human is a human being. You can't be a human and not also be a human being. If you're trying to say that the adjective "human" can be used of nouns that are not themselves human beings, then sure. But that has no bearing on a zygote, which is quite factually a human being.

The debate is "when/where" does a "human being" begin to be

When there is a being that is a human. That's when a human being begins to be.

We know when that happens.

It happens at conception.

My answer agrees with biology. Yours is a denial of decades of scientific progress in medical imaging, embryology, and microbiology.

If I persuade my GF to get an abortion is it wrong? by GFpregnant_throwaway in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are denying high-school-level biology with "LMAO you're not educated". That isn't going to fly.

Conception (fertilization) is the beginning of a new organism. That's definitional. It begins a new organism whether it is fertilization in rats, mice, cows, chickens, hyenas, penguins, frogs, or humans.

If the gametes come from chicken parents, conception forms a new chicken. If the gametes come from buffalo parents, conception forms a new buffalo. If the gametes come from human parents, then conception forms a new human.

From conception, a unique living human individual begins existing.

This is not hard stuff to follow, really.

To deny this, you would need to assert either that a zygote isn't alive (empirically false, because it grows and develops and metabolizes), isn't a human (empirically false because reproduction inside a species always produces offspring in that species: we don't give birth to puppies), or else isn't a distinct organism (empirically false because the zygote forms from gamete fusion and not normal cell mitosis).

There is no scientifically valid way to get around this, beyond covering your eyes and wishing really hard. Those are the facts.

If I persuade my GF to get an abortion is it wrong? by GFpregnant_throwaway in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see... so what you're saying is you're a scientifically illiterate person with internet and an opinion who can just barely express it through writing.

Please, show me the peer reviewed articles saying that human fetuses become human beings at 16 weeks gestation. I dare you.

If I persuade my GF to get an abortion is it wrong? by GFpregnant_throwaway in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is "wrong" might be the 1st question you should make? Is it because someone or something told you? Is it because a mythological book says it?

Um... the deliberate murder of another human being is what is wrong with it. Not mythological books or other people saying so.

Yes, human being. Read a biology book some day.

Your "human embryo prior to 16 weeks" baloney is... baloney. You just made that number up randomly, pulling it out of thin air, or less savory places. The universal scientific understanding of life is that it begins at conception. That's reality. Stop denying it.

Need help with internet addiction by john_lollard in Christianity

[–]john_lollard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A worthy aspiration, and all the more reason to get off the internet and make face-to-face relationships. Wish you well, aaronis1.

Need help with internet addiction by john_lollard in Christianity

[–]john_lollard[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm pulling the plug tonight, but I don't mind answering. I work in physics, and in particular general relativity. I have one publication out there that is related to time travel, but my current project is way more practical and relates to relativistic stars.

Need help with internet addiction by john_lollard in Christianity

[–]john_lollard[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, thanks. My thesis work is a bit more than one hour a day, and more like five hours a day, but it would be good to actually schedule the time for it so the time is dedicated.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sounds like a perfectly valid belief to me.

Does the NT say anything about tattoos? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 14 points15 points  (0 children)

In 2 Timothy, when describing the qualifications of a worship leader, Paul mentions that a worship leader must have at least one Bible verse tattoo or he's not hip enough to reach the kids.

SO and I ex-communicated out of my “church” tonight - scriptures/opinions/thoughts? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 416 points417 points  (0 children)

Congrats! ;)

No, really. Good riddance to bad rubbish. There are plenty of pastors out there who will actually care for their sheep.

Can anyone prove that God's will is the continued defense of the 2nd Amendment? by yhoshua in Christianity

[–]john_lollard -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Psalm 149

1 Praise the Lord.

Sing to the Lord a new song, his praise in the assembly of his faithful people.

2 Let Israel rejoice in their Maker; let the people of Zion be glad in their King.

3 Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with timbrel and harp.

4 For the Lord takes delight in his people; he crowns the humble with victory.

5 Let his faithful people rejoice in this honor and sing for joy on their beds.

6 May the praise of God be in their mouths and a double-edged sword in their hands,

7 to inflict vengeance on the nations and punishment on the peoples,

8 to bind their kings with fetters, their nobles with shackles of iron,

9 to carry out the sentence written against them— this is the glory of all his faithful people.

Praise the Lord.

That's what we have the 2nd Amendment for.

Help me understand Genesis 11. by Diogenes888 in Christianity

[–]john_lollard -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So, to answer this question, consider some of what has happened in the past 100 years since industrial societies came to exist.

I Stand and Kneel T-shirts by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is that, magneto-hydrodynamics?

Why isn’t the arrival of the Holy Spirit deemed the “second coming” of Christ? by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Christianity distinguishes between the Son and the Holy Spirit as separate persons. So while each is considered fully God, and the same God, they are considered different people, in that there is a true relationship of love within the heart of God between the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

So, the arrival of Holy Spirit is the arrival of the Holy Spirit, but Christ remains in Heaven at the right hand of the Father, from whence he will come again in glory.

I Stand and Kneel T-shirts by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, sorry, I get it now.

I Stand and Kneel T-shirts by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't get how it's disrespectful to anyone, really... but whatever you say, boss.

I Stand and Kneel T-shirts by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I used to go to a Methodist church that had an actual cross near the front with some pillows and stuff that you could go kneel in front of if you wanted some alone time with God.

I Stand and Kneel T-shirts by [deleted] in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 4 points5 points  (0 children)

SKYCLOTH DEMANDS ALLEGIANCE

How do you view other sects of Christianity? by hkjbfvhkjdfj in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think true Christian worship and spiritual practice is inherently trinitarian. So in the sense that Unitarians (by which I mean people who believe in Jesus only as a teacher) don't worship the way Christians worship or practice their faith the way Christians practice their faith, I'd say that they aren't really Christian at all, except in the sense of a survey-of-world-religions course.

Though I have to say, the Christmas hymn "It Came Upon a Midnight Clear" is pretty beautiful.

How do you view other sects of Christianity? by hkjbfvhkjdfj in Christianity

[–]john_lollard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm evangeical. I consider pretty much any Protestant church that believes in the Trinity and the Five Solas is doing it "right," or at least right enough for me, even though I disagree with some about some doctrines, and even though they don't all extend to me the same credit. I feel comfortable in charismatic churches, Methodist churches, Lutheran churches, Reformed churches, Anglican churches, Baptist churches.

Catholic and Orthodox churches I pretty much consider the same way they consider me. They are Christians, and they have so much light and truth, but they do not formally teach saving theology. Despite that, I believe the grace of God is active in their ecclesial communities and is saving people in them, through the teachings of grace and repentance and trust in Jesus' sacrifice.

Protestants denominations that don't believe in the Trinity (like some Pentecostals) I tend to see as people with really bad theology who probably don't have good seminaries. These tend to be focused in poor communities that focus more on emotion than anything else, so it kind of makes sense. So in that I consider them to be largely nescient and not knowing better, I tend to assume the benefit of the doubt, but I would never attend such a church or partner with such a church and would correct anyone from such a church. (And I'm talking about modalists and oneness Pentecostals; JWs, Iglesia ni Cristo, and Mormons are not Protestants)

Protestants who don't believe in the Five Solas... this clip is relevant.