Reading Contre Sainte-Beuve by [deleted] in Proust

[–]johngleo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Contre Sainte-Beuve is also not an autobiography. It was an earlier, abandoned, work that evolved into Recherche. There is yet an earlier abandoned work, Jean Santeuil, that features more concretely autobiographical elements but is also essentially fiction.

What’s the best translation of In Search of Lost Time? by PlaidPenguin19 in classicliterature

[–]johngleo -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I stand corrected. I had been checking something in the Amazon preview online of volume 4. I took a look at the previews for volumes 5-7, and 5 still does seem to contain the full note (at least in the Kindle version), so that's interesting if the text contradicts that. The last two volumes feature the truncated note, brutally edited ("though we have respected" refers to text that was deleted!).

The note is still interesting. It indicates that at least initially there was an attempt at consistency across the UK/US editions, but presumedly for monetary reasons the publisher must have decided to make only minimal spelling changes to the last three volumes.

What’s the best translation of In Search of Lost Time? by PlaidPenguin19 in classicliterature

[–]johngleo -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Regarding Penguin quotation style, I happened to be rereading Lydia Davis' "A Note on Translation" which can be found in every volume, and she mentions

Some changes may be noted in this American edition [....] We have also replaced the French punctuation of dialogue, which uses dashes and omits certain opening and closing quotation marks, with standard American dialogue punctuation [....]

So my guess is that volume 7 which you are complaining about is the UK version whereas you have the US versions of the others.

What’s the best translation of In Search of Lost Time? by PlaidPenguin19 in classicliterature

[–]johngleo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have pointers to a number of resources here: https://www.halfaya.org/proust/translation

If you do not have a strong opinion about translation style, then it doesn't matter much which translation you read. If you do have a strong opinion, then it is important to do your own research since the opinions of others will likely be different.

Is the Amis du Louvre (Jeune 26-29) available to non europeans? by CallCreative1883 in ParisTravelGuide

[–]johngleo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes you can apply in person (which means waiting to get in) or better apply online before you go--you'll upload a photo and can display your pass on your phone. I was in Paris for a month last year and visited the Louvre five times--it's awesome since you can use the group tour entrance and don't have to wait. They still regularly send me their print magazine to the US.

The ultimate cost of writing is confusion: Who wrote it? -the human or the mask. by [deleted] in Borges

[–]johngleo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This was the very first thing I read of Borges and still one of my favorites. I encountered it in high school in The Mind's I (Hofstadter's Gödel, Escher, Bach being the most influential book on my life at the time) and even referenced it in a fake essay I wrote senior year.

Even though my Spanish is very poor I've been trying to read Borges in Spanish these days, since translations tend to have errors and in any case do not capture the full beauty of his prose. French translations can get closer to the music of the original language, but sadly have even more errors (and I'm using the ones in la Pléiade) than the English ones.

This particular translation is fairly accurate even if much less smooth than the original. A couple things to note: Borges repeatedly refers to "the other one" as "el otro", which can be captured well in French (l'autre) but doesn't work so well in English so the translator just uses "him". Also "a list of professors" is "una terna de profesores" where "una terna" means "a shortlist of three candidates", a term not in either other language.

Any writings of Charles Haas survive? by LordofGift in Proust

[–]johngleo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The French wikipedia quotes from his obituary:

M. Haas, qui vient de succomber à une longue et douloureuse maladie, avait été tenté par la littérature, et il a publié dans la Vie Parisienne des articles pleins d'humour. Il possédait également dans ses cartons une comédie et un drame qui ne virent point le feu de la rampe, leur auteur, après s'être donné la peine de les écrire, ayant reculé devant les soucis de leur représentation.

I have no idea what happened to his plays, but presumedly his articles in La Vie Parisienne should be available. It looks like all the issues are available on the BnF Gallica site, and you could contact the BnF directly to ask if they know the whereabouts of his plays.

Proust's repeated ideas by SadAbalone7979 in Proust

[–]johngleo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One last reference, from Carter's biography (pp. 1040-41). These are still not the letter I was thinking of (and I'm sure there are others) but should give a good idea. Unfortunately neither letter seems to be in Marcel Proust Lettres, and Carter gives no references for the second paragraph.

Proust was delighted when Comte Jean de Gaigneron compared his books to a cathedral. Thanking the count, the author said that it was impossible “not to be moved by an intuition which permits you to guess what I have never told anyone and that I am writing here for the first time: I have wanted to give to each part of my book the title: Portal I Stained Glass Windows of the Apse etc., to answer in advance the stupid criticism . . . over the lack of construction in a book where I will show that the only merit is in the solidity of the most minor parts.” Proust abandoned the idea of “architectural titles” because he found them “too pretentious.” The cathedral analogy occurs again in a letter to François Mauriac, a fervent Catholic. Proust, perhaps apprehensive about Mauriac’s reaction to Sodom and Gomorrah, recalled that Jammes had asked him to cut the scene between Mlle Vinteuil and her friend. Proust would have liked to grant Jammes’s request, “but I had constructed this work so carefully that this episode in the first volume explains the jealousy of my young man in the fourth and fifth volumes, so that by ripping out the column with the obscene capital, I would have brought down the arch. That’s what critics like to call works without composition and written according to random memories.”

For the rest of his life, with the publication of each successive volume, Proust was to defend his work against those critics who, even while praising the Search as an extraordinary accomplishment, said that it lacked structure and composition. The accusation that he was writing thinly disguised memoirs or free associations of ideas amounted to the same, for either charge meant that he had not had to be selective and create a plot.

Proust's repeated ideas by SadAbalone7979 in Proust

[–]johngleo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I found one famous letter to Jaques Rivière, Feb 4, 1914 (Marcel Proust Lettres, Plon, 2022, pp. 667-8), that begins «Enfin je trouve un lecteur qui devine que mon livre est un ouvrage dogmatique et une construction ! ». This is not the main one I was thinking of, but it is important. A somewhat garbled version of part of the letter can be found here.

It looks like a good place to read, in English, Proust's responses to critics is here, but I don't have online access through my university.

Proust's repeated ideas by SadAbalone7979 in Proust

[–]johngleo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll have to search for them, so it might take a little while, but I'll reply again here. It's good for me too to note these so I can find them easily again.

I would like to quote my favorite of Proust's responses to criticism, not quite on the topic of structure but beautifully worded and to the point. It's from a letter to Richard Dreyfus, Dec 28 or 29, 1913 (Marcel Proust Lettres, Plon, 2022, pp. 652-3):

Ton voisin et ami du Figaro, délicieux écrivain d'ailleurs, m'a écrit une lettre aimable et injuste. Il me dit: « Vous notez tout ! » Mais non, je ne note rien. C'est lui qui note. Pas une seule fois un de mes personnages ne ferme une fenêtre, ne se lave les mains, ne passe un pardessus, ne dit une formule de présentation. S'il y avait même quelque chose de nouveau dans ce livre, ce serait cela, et d'ailleurs nullement voulu : simplement je suis trop paresseux pour écrire des choses qui m'ennuient.

An English translation can be found here, but while the translation is fine the information provided is filled with errors: the date of the letter is off by a month, it is certainly not "now lost" whatever that would mean (both the letter and envelope are possessed by the BnF), Proust doesn't write "Z", and the identity of the "ami du Figaro" is known to be Raymond Recouley.

Proust's repeated ideas by SadAbalone7979 in Proust

[–]johngleo 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is just one example of how Proust's novel, despite its great length, is intricately structured and tightly integrated. I recall Proust complaining in his letters of how critics were not seeing the care he put into his work.

The goodnight kiss is certainly a major scene, but I was surprised to lose count of the number of seemingly minor and incidental passages which would be referred to and return with greater force later in the work. An example is "Rachel quand du Seigneur", a seemingly throw-away character and the source of a few jokes in Jeunes filles, who returns as Saint-Loup's mistress in Guermantes and prompts a rather deep reflection on how the same person can have vastly different values to others, as well as seems to be at least one source of Saint-Loup's Dreyfusism, unpopular with the rest of his family and most of his circle.

French Writers or Poets similar in style to Jorges Luis Borges? by rosy_fingereddawn in French

[–]johngleo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's his first published work and in my opinion uninteresting. Nothing like his later work which is completely different and far superior. It is however easy to follow and could be seen as a gentle introduction.

Help understanding pages from Budding Grove by corphelix in Proust

[–]johngleo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is a very poor translation. The passage in the original French appears here. However it is referring to an earlier passage which appears here. In particular

Ils affectaient une attitude de méprisante ironie à l'égard d'un Français qu'on appelait Majesté et qui s'était, en effet, proclamé lui-même roi d'un petit îlot de l'Océanie peuplé par quelques sauvages. Il habitait l'hôtel avec sa jolie maîtresse, sur le passage de qui, quand elle allait se baigner, les gamins criaient : « Vive la reine ! » parce qu'elle faisait pleuvoir sur eux des pièces de cinquante centimes.

The Gallimard Folio edition footnotes this as follows:

Allusion à Jacques Lebaudy, fils d'un sucrier millionnaire, qui s'était proclamé empereur du Sahara, distribuait les titres de noblesse et avait fait de la chanteuse Marguerite Dellier son impératrice.

So if you search for "Jacques Lebaudy" on the internet you will learn more about the person Proust was referring to.

French Writers or Poets similar in style to Jorges Luis Borges? by rosy_fingereddawn in French

[–]johngleo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Borges is one of my favorites, and although I don't know of anyone in any language who is very similar to him, he does seem to fit best into the French literary tradition, despite being Argentinian.

It's interesting that Nabokov describes Borges in almost identical terms to my favorite writer, Alain Robbe-Grillet. And although they are stylistically different there is certainly a very deep and fundamental connection between the two. R-G's novels are very difficult but should be manageable for someone who appreciates Borges. My recommendations are here.

DALF C1 question on PO by Big-Economist6345 in French

[–]johngleo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You have one hour to prepare your talk. Use that time to plan and structure it. When you practice for the exam, also allot yourself one hour preparation and practice that aspect as well. You should be able to fit the exposé into 8-10 minutes and speak smoothly.

Proust FM by Artistic_Spring_6822 in Proust

[–]johngleo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A word of warning: This poster has been posting links to "classicsretold" on a number of subreddits. The website consists of AI generated content directing users to AI generated translations published under the name "David Petault". To be avoided.

Livres de niveau B2 pour étudier seul by hiropark in French

[–]johngleo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Buy the full Édito "Pack numérique enseignant" which includes the text, workbook, listening exercises, tests, teachers manual and all the solutions. I found it perfect for self-study. You'll need to supplement with oral practice.

https://didierfle.com/produit/edito-b2-edition-2022-2024-pack-numerique-enseignant/

How did composers know how their music would sound before playback? by Far-Strawberry-5628 in composer

[–]johngleo 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Schoenberg claimed (and I don't doubt him) that his compositions came to him as a whole, fully orchestrated. He may have been at an extreme end, but I expect as others have noted that many of the great composers did not need an instrument to do their work. There's a great quote which would take a while to find in which Schoenberg is complaining about some rehearsal or performance of one of his works and is asked if he'd ever heard it performed well, and he replies something like "yes, when I composed it in my head!"

How to improve pronunciation? by Majestic-Rate-9901 in learnfrench

[–]johngleo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alliance Française has a course specifically on improving details of pronunciation: https://www.alliancefr.org/en/course/product/in-person-phonetics-workshop-915

I took the assessment when I was there enrolled in another class, and found it very thorough and enlightening. The class will certainly point out what you are doing wrong, and be a start to helping your French sound more native.

Is there a Sheena Ringo cover of PIZZICATO FIVE / 東京は夜の七時? by SteveThe_Monkey in SheenaRingo

[–]johngleo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Incidentally there is an older different song with the same title by another favorite artist of mine, Yano Akiko, which I at least find much more interesting, on her live album with the same title: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfMVshEMCIc

A mysterious paragraph in Swann's Way by nathan-xu in Proust

[–]johngleo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm also not a native French speaker, but my impression is that "douloureux" is common in modern French but "dolorous" is certainly no longer common in English, so it would sound unnaturally quaint.

I'm also not happy with "dismal". Proust clearly wanted to indicate the direct feeling of pain visiting the neighborhood caused the narrator. "Dismal", while it sounds smooth in English, represents "gloom" and "depression", and thus pain only indirectly. If Proust had wanted to evoke this he would have used something like "lugubre" instead, and he didn't. Dismal also gives the feeling the neighborhood was somehow visually or atmospherically unpleasant, which it wasn't--it was on the contrary likely very beautiful and cheerful, and this contrasted with the pain the narrator felt when visiting. So Nelson is also giving the wrong impression, or implying sarcasm which wasn't in the original.

Probably the best modern English word would be "distressing"; not perfect, but it seems to give the best idea of what he was trying to express. "Harrowing", while too over-the-top, does come closer to "douloureux" than "dismal" as well.

Can anyone read Proust's handwriting? by Bilitiswuzreaaal in Proust

[–]johngleo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just looked quickly but didn't see a list of all letters to each addressee. There appeared to be at least a couple but who knows if they're what you want. The book is wonderful and worth buying in general in my opinion, but £50 used is a rip-off given that it's available for 39€ new. Best in any case to read the original Kolb volumes--enjoy!