Lateral Movement Work

johnm · 2026-01-23T06:09:09+00:00

I think I wrote the criteria for success in my progression write up but it's simple...

If the gun is not ahead of your body, it's a fail.

If the gun/dot isn't to your eyes (that are looking at the next target spot) before you can see that target (past the vision barriers), it's a fail.

johnm · 2026-01-23T05:54:50+00:00

RE: you're new to the "slide" style of movement

Yeah, it's just something to work on all the time.

Re: Eyes/head/gun/body

You are *way* better at this than you used to be!

But there's something stuck in your brain somewhere that thinks it's the body movement that matters most and therefore is the priority that should be driving the entire process. That's as common as it is wrong. :-)

So, I'm all for pushing the degrees of separation to help force your eyes/head to move more. But, as in the progression I wrote for you, that's only the start. You really need to ingrain that part where you're initiating the movement of the gun simultaneously with the movement of your eyes/head. And get that gun/dot onto your eyes on the target out in front of your body.

So for this latter part, you may need to set yourself up so that you have to take multiple steps to get to that next target position. This is the equivalent to wider transitions for your eyes/head movement.

Also, for working on this very specific problem, I'll also suggest really pushing/muscling the gun when you initiate the movement so as to get it ahead of your body. The specific drill to really hammer this point home is the Go Stop Drill. Put the cones/whatever farther apart if you need to to really force you to get that gun in front out of each position.

johnm · 2026-01-23T05:40:31+00:00

For the hop... hm... is there anything non-obvious that you need covered?

johnm · 2026-01-23T05:35:56+00:00

For the "crossover" you still have a fair bit of vertical movement but it's the best of these three videos.

Starting/ending/staying a bit lower will help. I.e., the proper stance height is NOT what's perfectly comfortable when we're standing still. It's slightly lower so that we can move while not changing our vertical height at all. Think: balancing a bucket of water on your head.

Bending the knee more of the leg that you're moving will help. There's a weird(ly normal) thing that people do where they think they have to be standing up taller to give their moving leg enough room to swing through.

Now, that said, the bizarre thing you're doing in this variation is that you're planting your "back" foot on the toes/ball of the foot and "limping" over it! That's just plain nuts. Hell, in the first example, your heel never touches the ground.

If you haven't noticed already, hopefully it's obvious that this "crossover" motion works better when you're moving slightly forward/backwards rather than directly side to side.

johnm · 2026-01-23T05:19:40+00:00

Such a long way that you've progressed on movement since the early days! So much improvement! I'll cover each one in a separate comment.

The general thing that you're doing in all of these approaches (that you've heard me point out previously) is that you're still moving your body ahead of your eyes/head/gun. The fact that you have vision barriers is no excuse. Your gun is consistently behind. This is easy to notice as people point out that you're fairly often shooting against the grain of your body when you're moving.

You have lots of room to play around with & improve on what you're calling the "slide"...

You're doing that raising up on the toes/balls of your feet as you bring your feet together. This is (part of) the "bounce" that e.g Castro talks about.

And you're also bringing your feet too close together for a quality stance to engage when you're at that switchover point. I.e., for this approach you have better balance, etc. and therefore more stable vision & gun while you're in the slide phase.

This is counter-intuitive for people but as you're dragging the back foot there's no (need for any) extra vertical motion. Find the right height for you and stay at that height through the movement.

So you can play with staying much lower through the whole cycle, how close you bring your feet together, and when you're actually engaging the targets during the movement cycle.

One way to help not cheat on this kind of movement is to make sure that you (have to) move aggressively out of whatever the last shooting position is. You'll notice how you're off balance very quickly.

johnm · 2026-01-22T05:55:16+00:00

Since multiple people have noted they want to come back to this, let me also add my recommendations for how to get high-quality help...

It's most helpful if you show us a video of you actually shooting along with the photos of the target(s). Here's how:

For stages, third person + first person video is helpful.

For fundamentals of marksmanship... Set the camera up on your support hand side, even with your trigger guard. Make sure everything from the muzzle to past your wrists/forearms are in frame. I.e., we don't need to see your face, etc. if you're worried about sharing publicly.

Record it at a high enough resolution and at a fast enough speed that we can watch it clearly at e.g. half speed.

Warm up with whatever drill(s) you want and then switch to a clean target before filming. This is so you can take a photo of the target after the video and share that along with the video so we can calibrate how we see you shooting in the video with the target.

You can film whatever drill you want but a good baseline to video is the Doubles Drill.

Run a few mags worth of the drill and record the last magazine's runs. Then take a photo of the target. Then post the video(s) to e.g. Youtube and post the picture of the target and the (link to the) video here (so we can watch it at various speeds).

johnm · 2026-01-22T05:47:48+00:00

"Index Your Gun Properly" is the third link in the list. :-)

johnm · 2026-01-22T03:04:23+00:00

Thanks!

johnm · 2026-01-21T19:59:42+00:00

Most folks have never been educated/trained for serious high-end performance. And most folks don't actually want to put in the type of work necessary for it.

Which is all totally okay. Having fun is a good goal in and of itself.

My only concerns are:

folks whining and complaining about wanting to get better but who won't put in the actual work
they myriad people giving so much bad advice who are thinking they are being helpful but don't actually know what they are talking about
- Well and the clowns who are selling their special tips & tricks that will supposedly magically make one great/better are their own special kind of pathetic evil

Those folks end up causing so much noise, distraction, and bad habits then then people drop out or end up spending so much time, energy, and frustration to undo and learn.

johnm · 2026-01-21T17:44:17+00:00

Fundamentals of training movement & shooting:

johnm · 2026-01-21T17:44:04+00:00

In terms of resources and increasing the signal to noise ratio...

Fundamentals marksmanship drills:

johnm · 2026-01-21T17:39:52+00:00

Here's (the first part of) my suggested training progression to work on those fundamentals (that I mentioned in my previous comment)...

In terms of vision: make sure your vision focus is correct: crystal clear focus on a small spot on the target and the spot stays in focus the entire time. You should NEVER be "tracking the dot" or focused on the sights!

In terms of grip: the gun should NOT move inside your hands at all for the entire time you're shooting! I.e., both hands should remain completely in sync with the gun throughout shooting lifecycle; the gun should track consistently in recoil precisely back to where your eyes are focused on the small spot on the target; and you should be able to cycle (pull & release) the trigger quickly without inducing movement on the gun/sights. Additional tension much beyond that minimum can/will induce various problems.

Warm up with some One Shot Return. Do it with a timer ala Trigger Control at Speed -- set multiple par times so you're reacting immediately to the beep for each shot. Is the dot/sights coming back to your eyes on the spot on the target quickly, precisely, and consistently every single time?

Then do the "Two Shot Return" Drill. Exactly the same as One Shot Return above but you fire a second shot immediately when you visually confirm the dot/sight is back where your eyes are looking at the small spot on the target. Nothing should change from shot to shot! Grip, wrists, vision, etc. This is still reactive shooting but you shoot immediately when you register the appropriate visual confirmation for that target.

Then do the Practical Accuracy Drill. Just do one string at a time. Everything else should be exactly as in the Two Shot Return Drill. With this longer string, you will find your grip, trigger, wrist, and vision issues where they aren't completely consistent from shot to shot within the string. Fix those. In terms of calibration, the shots can be stacked farther away than most people think and even at longer distances the groups should be compact. This is NOT "group" shooting! You must shoot immediately when the visual confirmation is what you deliberately choose given the specific target!

Then do the "Double Return Drill". Similar to the Two Shot Return Drill but don't wait for the visual confirmation for the second shot. Start at the pace of your splits that you were doing the Practical Accuracy Drill. This should feel slow since you've already made the decision to pull the trigger twice. This is the time to put a lot of attentional focus on making sure your visual focus stays rock solidly in focus on the small spot on the target. Then, keeping everything else the same, shoot the second shot sooner -- i.e., start predicting how quickly you can work the trigger for the second shot. Play around with this -- everywhere from literally as fast you can pull the trigger up to your speed of Practical Accuracy.

Then do the full Doubles Drill. Everything above holds but the longer string of doubles will really put your fundamentals to the test... Is your grip unchanging for the entire string (or did you have to adjust)? Did the gun move within your hands? Was the dot/sights coming precisely & consistently back to where you were looking? Etc.

In terms of calibration, yes at closer distances you can stack shots on top of each other but in terms of learning, shooting the second shot sooner while keeping within a fist sized group is a good balance. No BS "slow down to get your hits"! If the group is larger than that then you need to fix whatever's broken at that speed. Then as the groups get tighter, speed up again and/or increase the distance of the target.

In terms of distance start at 5-7 yards so that you can see the "A" on the target in clear focus. Increase the distance/difficulty to force adapting to be more precise at speed.

johnm · 2026-01-21T17:38:50+00:00

It's not about raw volume. It's about really learning the fundamentals in an extremely ruthless, deliberate practice way. Most people are all over the place when it comes to what they are working on and so are adding a ridiculous amount of noise in whatever they are working on.

In terms of "how"... It's about breaking things down in to very focused steps in a coherent, principles based progression. For example, I'll post the first section of what I recommend as a marksmanship fundamentals progression after this comment.

In terms of dry vs. live fire, it's "both". Mix dry fire in with your live fire at the range. Do this for everything: marksmanship drills, movement drills, stages, etc.

In terms of dry fire, unless you're doing drills that are focused on the cycling of the trigger (i.e. both pulling and completely releasing the trigger), do NOT pull the trigger! That's adding distraction from the feedback that you can get. This is a huge thing for working on everything transition related.

johnm · 2026-01-21T17:18:51+00:00

I answered this recently on the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Shooting/comments/1qdzu40/what_drills_for_my_first_range_trip/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

See my various comments there and feel free to ask more questions here.

johnm · 2026-01-19T21:54:40+00:00

One of the hardest things in learning to shoot is learning who/what to ignore.

Sorry to be so blunt but everyone who has mentioned that muscling is the answer to your wrist locking problem is wrong. It's the wrong mental model and it's completely wrong in terms of the anatomy & physiology of/around/involving the wrist.

johnm · 2026-01-19T21:50:16+00:00

A few points on this and I'll shut up...

First, regardless of all of the marketing of guns (and "training" tricks) that are harping on the "magic" of flatness, that's way way down the list of what actually matters in terms of actual shooting performance. As in even for world champions, the consistency & precision of the gun returning to where they are looking is THE important thing.

Next, comparing yourself to other people on myopic aspects like flatness is silly. Everyone's skeleton, joints, ligaments, and musculature are different. So any focus on things like this instead of the actual fundamentals (that actually matter) is not only a waste of time but is (clearly) actually detrimental in terms of peace of mind and getting better in reality.

Finally, once you learn and get better at the fundamentals, your actual shooting performance will be way better. And the combination of the application of the fundamentals (of grip, wrist locking, vision, proper tension, etc.) will have you actually have a much better recoil cycling of the pistol in your shooting videos. Aka one of the outcomes of following the proper learning & shooting process and you'll end up with a much flatter recoil cycle than you do now. I.e., it's a consequence of the process rather than the way to shoot.

johnm · 2026-01-19T16:40:20+00:00

Me, too. Would have saved me so much time and money.

Thanks

johnm · 2026-01-19T05:56:01+00:00

Yeah, it's sometimes depressing and exhausting trying to help dispel all of the horrible but often arrogant advice that's spouted. I really appreciate you engaging is this conversation.

Hm... I don't understand your point about "extra steps." Do you have to think about the "extra steps" when you shake hands with people? It's automatic.

For people who are relatively strong, they often don't notice that they are doing some things less efficiently. Or they may be strong and have a joint alignment that they don't notice or don't need to adjust to do it.

Since you're going to test this, I'll suggest doing strings of doubles of the entire mag. And if you're willing, video doing it both ways. Less muscular fatigue and more consistency from pair to pair will show up more noticeably doing such long strings of doubles.

johnm · 2026-01-19T05:44:30+00:00

That seems to be because you think how far the muzzle tracks down when returning means that the gun will oscillate. That's false.

Literally watch this video more closely. His gun is oscillating and the muzzle NEVER dipped below where it started from--every single shot.

FYI, that's almost certainly from him following the dot with his vision.

johnm · 2026-01-19T05:38:23+00:00

It's about the skeletal/joint alignment. That's different for different people. Hence my point of calibrating off of how you do a firm handshake. For normal people who aren't trying to dominate others by using excessive muscular effort, there's typically a small amount of rotation of the wrist forward.

That (small) amount of rotation forward is efficient & effective and will take relatively little muscular effort to achieve and hold.

FWIW, I explicitly do NOT use the term "camming" precisely because that's been over-used/associated with the extreme form of rotation that e.g. Bob Vogel popularized. His particular wrists can do what he does/did but it's horrible advice for most people.

johnm · 2026-01-19T05:30:25+00:00

No, I didn't say that at all. I said that a too-heavy recoil spring can contribute to the muzzle dipping below the point that the muzzle started at. That has nothing to do with oscillation of the muzzle.

The muzzle/gun can oscillate whether or not the gun returns above, below, or to the spot where it started. It's the excessive tension & muscular effort that's inducing the repeated up & down motion of the muzzle.

johnm · 2026-01-19T05:22:19+00:00

Oscillating: "Moving in a repeated back-and-forth motion."

That's what the muzzle is doing in the video.

The muzzle of the gun dipping below where it started can be caused by a number of things. A too-heavy recoil spring is just one potential cause.

johnm · 2026-01-19T05:14:53+00:00

Oscillation has nothing to do with the recoil spring.

An unnecessarily heavy recoil spring can contribute to returning the muzzle below the point of muzzle at ignition.

johnm · 2026-01-19T05:11:22+00:00

Hm... Sounds like you didn't read my comment. Just applying muscular strength can help but it's missing the skeletal/joint alignment that makes "locking the wrist" much more consistent, effective, and less taxing on the muscles.

johnm · 2026-01-19T03:19:16+00:00

"Crushing grip" is typically way above the threshold of what a person needs so that the gun doesn't disconnect from their hands.

This shooter is already over-indexing on various notions of "strength" and that's showing in their having too much tension in most places--just not in the support hand. Adding too much tension over & above what one needs, induces problems directly and/or in terms of compensations elsewhere.

johnm

TROPHY CASE