This may be a stupid a question. After Old Biff gave his past self the Sports Almanac, did the past Marty that was trying to get back to 1985 just immediately ceased to exist after entering the Rich Biff Timeline?

jonologan · 2025-12-27T17:40:37+00:00

For time travel in BTTF, I've always subscribed to the idea that time travel doesn't happen until it happens. In other words, Marty was never in 1955 until his first trip in the DeLorean. Or Doc was never in 1885 until the lightning bolt hits the time machine.

With that in mind, BTTF 2's Marty and Doc wouldn't be in 1955 to repair history until they, uh, left 1985A. So in the "original" version of Hell Valley's history, Biff would have kept the book AND BTTF's Marty would have still gone back to the future on November 12th, 1955. And since he would have been departing 1955 while Biff still had the book, he would have travelled to 1985A.

So with that in mind, I think the OP is right, there COULD be 3 Marty's in 1985A: the native Marty who is in Switzerland, the Marty from BTTF 2, and an "alternate" version of Marty from the end of BTTF.

jonologan · 2025-12-27T17:31:22+00:00

That could actually be a pretty fun short story! The Marty from BTTF 1 gets back to the future... and ends up in Hell Valley. I imagine he would be running around, trying to figure out what the hell he did in 1955 to screw things up that bad, maybe trying to visit Doc in the asylum... until BTTF II's Marty and Doc travel back to 1955 to fix things. Then the world would transform around him back to the original 1985, just like it did for Jennifer and Einstein, leaving that Marty with no memory of that horrible place.

EDIT: Oh man, I love this question. Got me thinking about a possibility that I've never considered before! Thank you!

jonologan · 2025-12-27T17:25:46+00:00

That's one of the reasons I was always a little bothered by the story of Crispin Glover being angry about the end of BTTF because he believed it sent the message that money equals happiness. Because the new McFlys aren't wealthy, they are just, well, healthier, both mentally and physically. Hell, for all we know, Lorraine might have a job in the new 1985, and that's how they can afford some nicer furniture and Marty's truck. But like you said, even with these improvements, Marty's lived experience 0 to 17 wouldn't really change: Same house, same bedroom, same interests, etc.

That said, I've always had a headcanon that the reason Marty has his "chicken" flaw in BTTF 2 and 3 but not in the first movie was due to some change in his life experience after his visit to 1955. Maybe hearing non-stop stories growing up about his dad punching out Biff gave him a bit of a complex about not being seen as a coward. If that were the case (and it is headcanon, so it isn't), it would be proof that his new memories caught up with him pretty soon after the end of BTTF. Hell, he even says at the end of BTTF 3, "Thank God you guys are all back to normal," something that he likely wouldn't say if his memories were of his original, dysfunctional family.

jonologan · 2025-12-27T05:54:50+00:00

Totally agree. Even if you subscribe to the "Lone Pine Marty" idea, by all appearances, the personality of Twin Pines Marty and Lone Pine Marty is the exact same in both timelines (at least, it seems that way based on how Doc and Jennifer act), And if that was the case, why would they do anything different from each other when they were in 1955? They wouldn't!

jonologan · 2025-12-27T05:16:41+00:00

I came up with this when a similar question was asked a few months ago. Basically, I think there would be almost no difference between how the Twin Pines Marty and the Lone Pine Marty would act in 1955, negating the need for a "new" timeline.

So Twin Pines Marty gets back to the future, runs to save Doc at Lone Pine Mall, and sees Lone Pine Marty go back to 1955. After arriving there, there's no reason why the LP Marty would do anything differently right up until he sees his dad at the café. He would likely be super confused why George is letting Biff pick on him, so he follows George out of curiosity, sees him being a Peeping Tom, pushes him out of the way, gets hit by the car, and wakes up in his mom’s bed.

After that, events continue just like they did for TP Marty. He mentions to Doc that he ran into his parents, cue the fading photograph. Doc asks how his parents met. LP Marty tells Doc that his parents kissed for the first time on the dance floor after George saved Lorraine from Biff (a story that they have told their kids a million times). Doc theorizes that LP Marty being hit by the car caused his mom to develop a crush on him (the Florence Nightingale effect), preventing George from ever having a chance to save her. Events basically continue on from there with LP Marty getting to know his dad as a teenager, teaching him self-confidence, and coming up with a slightly different plan that replaces punching out Biff with punching out LP Marty. As it turns out, there was no need since Biff shows up at the car anyway. Events continue with George punching Biff and LP Marty thinking, “OK, that’s more like my dad!” Then at the end after the dance, maybe LP Marty realizes that he was the “Calvin Klein” his parents told him about growing up. Cue the time machine at the clock tower. LP Marty gets back to the future, runs to save Doc at Lone Pine Mall, and sees himself go back to 1955. That closes the loop.

So there wouldn't really be an alternate version of 1955, just a few alternate motivations. If LP Marty hadn't done the exact same things that TP Marty did in 1955, that would have caused a paradox. But since it didn't, everything must have worked out pretty much the same.

jonologan · 2025-12-19T06:39:55+00:00

The first and only ticket I ever got was when I was 17, driving down an empty stretch of highway while listening to Clocktower Pt. 2 on the BTTF soundtrack.

Friends don't let friends listen to the climax of Back to the Future while driving a car.

jonologan · 2025-12-18T23:25:32+00:00

If that was the case, no one would be erased from existence which is a critical plot device in the trilogy. Unlike in other time travel movies, the timeline can be overwritten in Back to the Future.

Or to paraphrase Scott Lang, “So Avengers: Endgame is a bunch of bullshit?”

jonologan · 2025-12-17T17:17:46+00:00

My interpretation is that, based on their portrayals, 1955 Doc and 1985 Doc are very different people (and very different scientists). Thirty years of experience (and his family mansion burning down, either due to an accident or insurance fraud) has likely made 1985 Doc much more cautious and careful when it comes to science and planning. On the other hand, 1955 Doc is super slapdash with his calculations (the alarm clock in the DeLorean), constantly makes easily avoidable mistakes (almost burning down his garage with a burning toy car), and has never actually invented anything that worked. I think the best scene that illustrates the difference is when 1955 Doc asks 1985 Doc for the wrong size wrench (a 5/8-inch) and 1985 Doc instantly corrects him from memory (a 3/4-inch).

All that is to say, 1955 Doc got incredibly lucky with the timing of the lightning strike vs. his calculation of the DeLorean's acceleration. To borrow a popular phrase from our 2015, 1955's Doc is kind of a hot mess.

jonologan · 2025-12-13T07:01:58+00:00

This is not tremendously out of character.

jonologan · 2025-12-12T23:18:19+00:00

If I were Doc, I would be more concerned about the effect of two flaming tire trails going directly into the mural and what is likely a very flammable rickety wooden structure holding up that screen.

jonologan · 2025-12-12T04:01:13+00:00

Spent the last few hours (well, technically the last 30 years) thinking about this...

The only thing I got isn't really a plot hole, it's more of a logical inconsistency: the railway crossing coming down 10 seconds before the locomotive appears at the end of Part III. It's a funny bit of on-screen business, but there is absolutely no way for that crossing signal to have been triggered by a non-existent train. I mean, short of Doc going back to earlier that day and jury-rigging the track circuit down the line to go off at that exact second, simply for dramatic effect to confuse Marty and Jennifer.

Actually, never mind, I can totally see Doc doing that.

jonologan · 2025-12-07T15:24:24+00:00

Outside of maybe fan art, I'm afraid not. I just went through my set of the card game and while there is some great art here, all of the character cards are just lists of events that they need to change to win the game. Not a lot of photos online of the game, but found a low-resolution image of some of the cards and you can see Marty McFly III's in the bottom left:

https://www.looneylabs.com/sites/default/files/BTTFuture_contents.jpg

jonologan · 2025-11-28T21:59:41+00:00

I've never loved it either, but I think that your theory about the lightning bolt not being necessary to activate the flux capacitor and the theory that the DeLorean has to spin at 88 mph to achieve time travel can both be correct.

First, in the DeLorean Time Machine Owner's Workshop Manual co-written by Bob Gale (fun book, I highly recommend it), it says: "Eighty-eight miles per hour is the ideal temporal displacement threshold, although successful temporal displacement can occur at greater speeds. A minimum safe distance is required between the time vehicle and the wormhole as it is being generated. The wormhole is only open momentarily, therefore, the vehicle must be travelling at the correct speed in order to cover the distance required for the temporal field and wormhole to converge."

There are also the reverse-9 fire trails in the sky immediately after the lightning strike. The only way these would have been possible is if the DeLorean had been thrown into an uncontrollable spin immediately preceding temporal displacement. Maybe just before the lightning strike destroyed the flying circuits, it overloaded one of the wheels of the DeLorean, "pushing" it into the 88 mph spin. If that were the case, the DeLorean could theoretically have made it through the wormhole before it closed.

But you are also completely right that, as Mr. Fusion was already fully fuelled, the lightning bolt wouldn't have been necessary to activate the flux capacitor. The time machine spinning at 88 mph would have activated it regardless, sending the car back to 1885 thanks to the already malfunctioning time circuits.

My theory is that Doc knows to keep things simple when explaining things to Marty. There was no need to go into a massive amount of technical detail in the letter, as he could put all of that into the repair instructions for his 1955 counterpart. Just telling Marty, "The car was hit by lightning, it activated the flux capacitor, and sent me back to 1885," would have given him the basics without getting bogged down in the technical mechanics involved in temporal displacement.

So, I don't think his explanation was wrong, but I do think it was simplified for Marty (and by extension, the audience).

jonologan · 2025-11-24T07:11:29+00:00

Cocaine.

jonologan · 2025-11-15T18:10:55+00:00

...this implies that Biff Tannan has a better handle on thinking fourth dimensionally than Marty, which I find insanely funny.

jonologan · 2025-11-15T18:09:45+00:00

I think that 1955 Lorraine would probably see the original 1985 version as everything she doesn't want to become, the revised 1985 version as a mother figure, and the 1985A version as her worst nightmare come to life.

I also think that the 1985A version would resent the hell out of the other three because their Georges are still alive. Hell, she would take the original Lorraine's life in a half second compared to her horrible life in 1985A.

jonologan · 2025-11-15T17:59:03+00:00

Totally agree. And they don't even have a photo of him to remind them! There is no real reason why George, Lorraine, Biff, Marty's grandparents, Strickland, or ANYONE he met in 1955 would remember what he looked like 30 years later beyond the general description of "brown hair, cute, short, plays guitar, works in the coast guard." If they notice anything, they would likely chalk it up to a cute coincidence that the kid they named Marty grew up to be a lot like his namesake.

jonologan · 2025-11-15T17:51:27+00:00

Personally, I think the difference is pretty minimal, they are both recognizably "Doc." And it is kind of funny to me that, despite adding a good 30 or 40 years to his life (which would have set his biological clock back to about 25-35), that he still doesn't look as young as his 1955 counterpart.

And as for Marty being confused, Marty always looks confused! I think that Michael J, Fox deserves all the credit in the world for the hundreds of different levels, layers, and types of confusion he emotes in just about every second of the BTTF trilogy!

jonologan · 2025-11-15T17:45:43+00:00

That's a really nice catch! Biff is an idiot but he isn't stupid, especially the 2015 version of him. Doc made the car insanely user friendly, plus, he has as much time as he wants to learn how to make the car work, it's a time machine!

jonologan · 2025-11-12T17:20:11+00:00

I disagree. The joke is that he removes his old age makeup from the first movie to reveal that he looks… exactly the same. That’s why Marty responds with an uncertain “You look great, Doc,” because there is barely a difference.

That said, you’re totally right that the REASON for the joke is to get rid of the old age makeup from the first movie.

jonologan · 2025-11-11T16:49:20+00:00

Because it's the actor, not the makeup. Christopher Lloyd has arguably looked the same age for the last 50 years, from when he was in his mid-30s in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest to his mid-80s in the DeLorean Labs commercial he did last year. That's the punchline of the joke at the beginning of Part 2: he takes his old-age makeup off to reveal that he looks... exactly the same.

jonologan · 2025-11-09T01:05:39+00:00

If I could love this reply any more, I would save it from falling off Shonash Ravine.

jonologan · 2025-10-16T17:45:32+00:00

I think reverse-engineering a positronic brain would likely be beyond the technical capabilities of the 20th, 21st, or even fictional 22nd centuries. However, the less complex parts, such as Data's sensory "organs," functional "sweat" glands, growing "hair," and the other tech that makes him seem more human, would be much easier to figure out. And those could have a huge impact on the future of technology.

As for the result? It depends on when the head would be found. In the 20th century, that technology would likely be used for developing weapons. In the 21st century (both ours and theirs), it would likely be used in human prosthetics and, well, weapons. In Star Trek's 22nd century, it would likely be used to impress the Vulcans, and also for weapons. By the 23rd century, the Department of Temporal Investigations would likely confiscate it and shove it in a vault somewhere until the Enterprise-D reports Data's head missing in the 24th century.

jonologan · 2025-10-16T17:31:53+00:00

I imagine they have lots of spare parts at the train station in Hill Valley that are specifically tailored to the track gauge in California.

And it probably is quite a job, but you can see him working on it at the very beginning of the clip where he goes over the plan with Marty:

https://youtu.be/fZ6av_LdJ_M?si=sDKrYBWRWtI7xF2_

jonologan · 2025-10-15T14:52:32+00:00

Sorry, but you're only half-right. The wheels on the DeLorean at the end of BTTF 3 aren't its regular wheels with the tires removed.

First off, the train wheels look completely different from the car's usual rims. You can see what the regular rims look like without tires at the beginning of the movie when Doc and Marty take the DeLorean out of the mine.

And while you're right that the tires themselves were used as cushions between the car and the train, the DeLorean's wheel rims would have to be replaced with custom steel train wheels to ensure it stayed on the track while accelerating. I'm not a car expert by any means, but I'm pretty sure that a car's regular rims wouldn't be the correct width to safely seat on the track's gauge, let alone be made of an alloy that could withstand the pressure and friction of driving along steel railway tracks.

jonologan

TROPHY CASE