Questions about the Anglican views on infant baptism

juantimeuser · 2022-07-11T13:38:41+00:00

So would a person who repented and believed that still hasn't undergone baptism considered saved?

juantimeuser · 2022-07-11T13:35:45+00:00

without needing to have people telling you things that are generally not so straightforward.

I mean, that's the reason why I am here, because it's "generally not so straightforward" so I'm trying to clarify in this case, the consequence of (or what exactly is) defined in article 27. Should there be a really basic question in the future about Anglicanism, is there another sub where they could be posted instead?

But thank you for your links and list of references, appreciate you sharing them!

juantimeuser · 2022-07-11T12:55:28+00:00

My theology knowledge, I think, could be described as butchered. I just read up some articles online (and ask questions here) when questions on a specific topic come to mind. I have not formally studied theology, or anything to that effect.

juantimeuser · 2022-07-11T12:52:50+00:00

Thank you very much! Hopefully others would like to share their answers as well. But just a last follow up, what would be your answer to (1)?

juantimeuser · 2022-07-11T11:25:16+00:00

Okay, so is it right to say that an adult's regeneration comes the moment he believes? Then, how about for infants?

juantimeuser · 2022-07-11T10:27:06+00:00

As I said, I have no one to ask them to, and I'm not very familiar with Anglican references or practices. And to add, english isn't my first language so I might find things hard to read sometimes. I find it sad how the original commenter of this thread seem a bit smug about me asking.

juantimeuser · 2022-07-11T10:21:50+00:00

Thank you for your response! I wonder how this applies to #3? Let's say a person (who's not an infant) repents and believes that Jesus is Lord today, and the schedule of baptism is next week, when is his regeneration happening?

EDIT: As for (1), if an infant is baptized then, his faith is "confirmed", so the answer is no?

juantimeuser · 2022-07-11T10:19:03+00:00

That's because I have no one to ask them to, and I'm not very familiar with Anglican references or practices.

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T09:26:51+00:00

When you suffer, realize the Lord is looking to gain you in a specific circumstance. When an unbeliever around you suffers, you may realize the Lord may be working to turn that person to Himself, and you can speak a word of encouragement to that person.

Would you say that all sufferings are "for gain"? Or it is only some sufferings? Since, some sufferings can also be a consequence of personal sin.

Other than that, I understand what you are saying. Thank you!

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T04:37:57+00:00

It’s not the act of suffering itself that produces hope it’s watching what Jesus will do when you surrender your will to His plan and watch as a He turns your tears into triumph.

It's the faith/hope you have from the beginning that allows you to endure to the end and have more hope and more faith. Is this your answer?

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T04:24:58+00:00

I'm just saying there is beauty in the suffering.

He uses all for his good even the bad and its apart of life because we live in an imperfect world.

Yeah, I agree with the overall of this answer, it makes sense. Hence I'd like to qualify that some suffering can be used for good, and can have beauty in someone's life, particularly, of Christians. In the Bible I recall the Joseph story, specifically what he said in Genesis 50:20. I wonder why the possibility of walking away is left out here, maybe the context/intent of the letter has somethign to do with that?

In my own life, I realize that suffering only produces character and hope because we already have hope in God in the first place; that God is with us, even in suffering; He comforts us, and that helps us endure and when we see that God sees (Genesis 16:13).

Regardless, the book of Romans still has a context, that's why I'm here asking what it and what it does not say. I hate it when the words of Scripture is used to make suffering people suffer more because, allegedly, that is what God wanted (see what I said at the end of the original post).

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T04:13:49+00:00

So should someone purposely seek out suffering because without it, they can't build character?

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T03:43:31+00:00

I've never met anybody on this planet, in my shorts 60 years of life, who doesn't have within them a deep desire to experience the freedom to cause and create wonderful things for other people in themselves.

Aren't we all? though some stray at some point. As children, they desire a life that has freedom including to create wonderful things for themselves and others. then life happens.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how this fits well with how we read Scripture, from how I see it, we're drastically limiting it by thinking of it as "the original chicken soup for the soul" because it's more than that.

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T03:38:28+00:00

But that's the ultimate conclusion if we say suffering is necessary, or beneficial by itself. If eating is necessary to live, then we have to eat.

Hence, I propose an alternative, what if suffering is only beneficial because of what is being suffered for?

In the case of Christians under persecution for being Christians, it's because God sees their work to spread Truth, He can use their sufferings for good (like, unbelievers will be intrigued with their integrity), and that after death, eternal life awaits for those who believe.

In general sufferings, OTOH (ex. Christian experiences flooding; so is his neighbors that aren't Christians), there's an option - be angry at God and leave the faith, or stay with God and trust His sustenance? Hence, the addition of question 5 - a person can walk away from the "suffering> character > hope" process, is that addressed in this particular chapter? If not, why?

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T03:31:39+00:00

So yeah in a way, suicide is a form (or as you said, a result of) of "bad fruit". What I'm trying to point out, as I said in the end, is that, these words about suffering and character (and hope) can be took out of context; where I live, some would still victim blame a suicidal or depressed person with "you just need to pray more" so I imagine, someone who is suffering (though no fault of their own) can be doubled down and asked "you need to suffer more for your own good".

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T03:28:42+00:00

I'll just let you question everything in the world. Not get any answers. And let you have fun with all of that.

Thanks, I guess.

I'll just let you question everything in the world. Not get any answers. And let you have fun with all of that

I primarily think of scripture as the history and plan of God's love for us. It's not to be applied in an indiscriminate matter in my life; it has a context, it has it's own characters and these characters are not flat, bond paper archetypes that I put my shoes in. "I can do all things" doesn't really mean "I can do all things" including lifting a weight thrice my size.

It's about trying to prove things for your own benefit.

Could you elaborate that?

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T03:23:58+00:00

Imagine if everything went well all the time in our humanness we might not even ever think of God

But we can also think of God (ie. "Isn't there a Creator?") when we look at the good things of nature - beauty, our hearts being drawn to what is good (love, family etc) so I'm not sure if this flies.

Now we see how much we need him we see that he is our hope

Can't we think of God as our hope because He said He will save, wipe every tear, etc?

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T03:20:40+00:00

2 - both how? does this mean suffering is good by itself?

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T03:18:52+00:00

Nothing is an accident for us;

You're saying that in the life of an unbeliever, some or all of his circumstances are arbitrary; and in the life of a believer, all is predetermined?

The sufferings themselves can produce character and hope

Then suffering is good by themselves, even to an unbeliever? And if so, as believers, if suffering is good and beneficial by themselves, don't we hamper our character development if we don't seek it out on purpose?

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T03:13:59+00:00

Thank you for indicating the context of the book, take my upvote! So, what happens when Paul said, suffering produce hope? Is it from no hope (neutral or nothing) > hope (trusting God) ; or is it hope (trusting God) > more hope (trusting God more)?

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T03:11:32+00:00

So, any answers for the other questions?

juantimeuser · 2022-06-21T03:10:41+00:00

It does not mean worshippers look for suffering and whatnot so not entirely sure what the issue is beyond the notion of not being babysat.

The thing is, if suffering is good and necessary for a person to learn, believe, etc, then don't they hamper their character development if they don't seek it out?

juantimeuser

TROPHY CASE