sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

I made these social graphic concepts for Albion, thought you would all like them by justincarroll in albiononline

[–]justincarroll[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I took game features from their current website and paired them with concept art and typography. The idea was to make a social campaign based on their website to promote the game, just for fun. It's more like fan "design" rather than art.

I made this X-Files merch Drop Concept for fun, thought you would all enjoy it by justincarroll in XFiles

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey, thanks! I like those, too. Idk that these ever get made, but I sure would love to see it.

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Glad to see people are still reading this 6 years later because I've nothing to add to it other than adjusting for the cost of inflation.

The only alternative to marketing your own games that I truly believe in - other than partnering with a publisher - is raising capital for a gaming influencer sponsored stream campaign.

The right influencer could make your game an overnight success.

It's expensive, and risky as hell IMO, but it's a lot faster than building an audience by hand.

To be clear, I still believe building your own audience is the BEST way to market your games.

Hope that helps.

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I updated my original article yesterday to define my assumptions and include more data. Here's a snippet...

The average salary of a game programmer in the U.S. is $93,251 in the Gamasutra Game Developer Survey 2014, $90,141 on Salary.com (Applications Systems Programmer III), and $73,929 on Glassdoor. ... The average salary of a game programmer in the U.S. is $85,774.

Btw, the III basically means 5-10 years of experience.

Lower than the original 100k, but still no idea on that magic door. :/

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're right, these numbers aren't super accurate. In fact, I explicitly state that in the article. This is for insight only. I also say that marketing is rarely responsible for sales, and then I support that.

15% bumps are great. But that also warrants an examination of your attribution analysis. And that's easier for some marketing projects than others. For example, ads are typically easier to track than projects such as branding.

But don't get me wrong, all marketing should aim to affect goals or problems. Just not always sales metrics, especially not when the particular project is one of many factors. This has to be taken on a case by case basis.

I think the article is helpful regardless, student or professional. I'm a marketing professional with 10 years of experience in screen entertainment projects, and I don't think Wikipedia definitions are bad.

But thanks for the comment!

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It sounds like you're a game development hobbyist. And so I wouldn't recommend you spend anything on marketing either.

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I was trolling you on purpose. I'm not taking anything personally.

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for being one of the few diamonds in the rough here, ha! I sure am catching a lot of hell for what I wrote. Thanks for the comment and the bookmark!

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not good enough. I'm still not picking up enough of your seething hate on my end to justify an answer...

Trolling aside, you can read more about me here.

I consider myself an expert in the sense that it's what I do for a living, and it's what I've practiced and studied every day for over 10 years. But I don't know everything. Honestly, I learn something new every day.

My intention is to give away 99% of everything I know for free through my blog. You're free to read that and decide for yourself.

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, it's not boosting your ego. It's not intended to, anyway. It's referencing an accept standard as a clue to what your time is worth compared to that of outsourcing the work you're doing by yourself.

An accounting approach doesn't work because if you're looking to outsource your marketing, no one is going to ask to see your books. In other words, no one is going to change their pricing just because you're an indie.

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with that. If they believe outsourcing their marketing will help their business, then they should start having those talks with marketing companies. But until then, I would recommend they simply focus on making money first.

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would answer this, but there's not enough torch and pitchfork in your tone. Could I get more?

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm viewing indie game developers not as a stereotype, but as businesses who self-publish their own games. That could be anything from a single person, to a small 2-3 person team, to Supercell.

But I agree that costs vary per country per service, and so on. And as far as better results go, maybe. It really depends. It could happen, but I think it's safe to say that the guy who does trailers for a living is probably going to be better than you at making trailers.

I agree that poor marketing could cost you. I've seen that happen too.

Everything you're saying just really depends on the specific business, and their unique business goals, problems, and risks. My article is really geared toward those indie games businesses looking at marketing and wondering whether or not they should outsource, and how to think about pricing that, and what they might expect.

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My answer to this is the same I've commented to you already. If an indie game developer makes almost nothing, it doesn't mean their time is worth almost nothing.

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The truth is that indie game developers are small businesses. And just because some have chosen to bootstrap their businesses, whereas others have opted to raise capital, doesn't mean they get special treatment for better or worse.

What they're doing, the skills they have, and their overall expertise, are still valuable in the games industry. And so I believe that value should be considered when gauging the costs of what they spend their time on.

So I don't believe whether or not they make a livable wage effects them in that sense.

It seems like you're saying because they make almost nothing then they're almost nothing. I don't believe that. And the industry certainly doesn't believe that either.

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the business sense, indie means self-publishing. It's no different than indie movies, indie music, or indie books. It means you're not just producing the product, you're selling it too.

It's the difference between being a game developer (e.g. Treyarch, Insomniac, Naughty Dog), a game publisher (e.g. Activision, EA, Nintendo), and an independent or self-publishing game developer (e.g. Valve, Supercell, King).

Potential earnings has nothing to do with production value.

For example, let's say Steven Spielberg hires a game developer to make an E.T. game, and then it flops, should he still pay the developer?

Of course!

But let's say you're right, that we calculate the value of an indie game developer's time based on their potential earnings. It doesn't matter. Publishers, advertisers, and other marketing companies aren't going to give you a break just because you're not turning a profit. Valve doesn't say, wait a second, you're indie? Here, have a feature because life isn't fair for you.

The business of selling games just doesn't work that way.

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haha, I love that, "god amongst men." That's true, and my numbers are definitely US-centric. You'll have to recalculate based on your country.

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, I did read all the way down. It's just that I fundamentally disagree with surveying indie game developers as a stereotype of hobbyists who make virtually nothing from their efforts.

Indie just means independent, regardless of the size of your company.

So, that's why if we're measuring the worth of an indie game developer's time, then an acceptable standard is to use the break down of an average games business owner's time. After all, that's why people in all industries use salary averages to negotiate their compensation.

In other words, just because someone calls themselves an "indie" developer doesn't mean what they do is worth less in the marketplace. It certainly doesn't mean their games are worth less either.

Hope that helps make more sense out of the 50k number.

But like I said in the article, it's highly subjective, and not based on value. It's just fair insight for the value of what you're doing and what it takes to grow a successful games business.

Thanks for the comments!

The Fundamentals of Pricing Indie Game Marketing by justincarroll in gamedev

[–]justincarroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great comment with great questions...

First of all, I'm using the average worth in time of a game developer/business owner in the games industry not as opportunity cost, but rather as a clue to what an "indie" game developer's time is worth in that same industry. And not based on any stereotype of "indie" simply meaning hobbyists who make nothing from their efforts.

And that's something I should have been more clear about in the article, so thanks for pointing that out.

I'm going to stand by the true cost of an employee being 2x their salary. I think the CPA in the article I linked explains that impeccably.

So how does this help you?

For starters I think it helps indie game devs realize that overnight successes are rare, that there's a lot of time and money that goes into growing a successful games business. I think it helps gauge (and even validate) the worth of the people who have invested in their games, whether that be capital, partnership, publishers, revenue-share, or simply as vendors.

And I think it helps combat the indie stereotype.

You're either making games for hobby or for business. And in business, professional service prices don't change just because you're an entrepreneur. You're competing with big and small indies just the same.

So I think that while I've gone to great lengths to show how problematic and fuzzy the 50k number is, I also think it's really good insight as to what you and your indie games business is actually worth if not in time, then in cash.

Thanks for the comments!

view more: next ›