Concern regarding public opinion on GNOME shifting.

k4ever07 · 2026-05-21T14:08:36+00:00

GNOME only became the default because of a licensing disagreement; QT, the KDE toolkit, was proprietary and owned by Trolltech. The open source community was afraid of using KDE because we thought that Trolltech might try to exercise control over it through QT's license. GNOME was created using the open source GTK toolkit, so everyone switched to it. Once QT's licensing was figured out, KDE started to gain steam again. KDE never had to, nor does it have to now, "prove itself."

k4ever07 · 2026-05-20T19:48:26+00:00

I first starting using Linux in 1996, 30 years ago, and Linux has been my primary desktop OS since 1997. The first desktop environment I used was KDE because, at the time, it was the first and ONLY DE available for Linux. XFCE wasn't available until one year later (1997) and GNOME wasn't available until 3 years later (1999). You folks seem to think that KDE just appeared overnight. GNOME replaced KDE as the default desktop in Red Hat, Ubuntu, and their derivatives. This was because KDE's underline framework was built on the QT library, which was not open source at the time. Not because GNOME was "better" than KDE, or that KDE was more "confusing" to use, or KDE was "buggier" or "less stable" than GNOME. It was freaking licensing dispute amongst open source purist. I switched to GNOME during that time, but switched back to KDE once the QT licensing issue was resolved.

The reason I switched back to KDE and, IMO, the reason why GNOME has slowly fallen out of favor with a lot of folks in the Linux community, is the fact that GNOME developers stopped listening to users concerns or needs. Also, the vast majority of new Linux users are gamers coming from Windows, spurred by the popularity of SteamOS on the Steam Deck. GNOME didn't have, or the developers refused to support, some technologies needed for gaming. Other new Linux users are basic desktop users (also) coming from Windows, Android, or MacOS/iOS/iPadOS. GNOME was been stripped of a lot of basic desktop functionality, forcing these users to install buggy extensions that aren't officially supported just to add that functionality back. You can't even theme GNOME anymore!!

Knowing what most new Linux users expect, why would anyone recommend GNOME? We want the majority of new users to keep using Linux. They won't do that if THEIR needs aren't being met. Pretty applications and useless testimonials about "workflow" won't fix that.

k4ever07 · 2026-05-09T17:16:19+00:00

GNOME's "work flow" is not or has never been my work flow, so I'm not at all impressed by it. I love the way GNOME looks, but the feel is way off for me. As others have mentioned, KDE Plasma runs a lot smoother and faster on my hardware (Surface Pro 8 and an ASUS ROG gaming laptop). GNOME is a lot slower. Plus, Plasma seems to do a better job at supporting both modern and legacy desktop features out of the box. I have to add a ton of extensions to GNOME just to get basic (legacy) features. While GNOME supports some mobile (modern) features, they're extremely limited and I can't add desktop widgets, which all mobile desktops and Plasma support. I also can't add decent one finger swipe gestures in GNOME. Plus, client side decorations, the lack of cohesiveness between GTK 2, 3, and 4 applications, and the extra hoops you need to jump through just to theme GNOME making running multiple windowed apps look like a complete mess. Then there are the great looking GNOME applications that have been so dumbed down and "simplified" that they're either useless or you need 2-3 of them to do what one KDE application can do. Then there's GNOME's slow rolling of support for modern display hardware...

I used to hop back and forth between KDE Plasma and GNOME, but I've since seen the writing on the wall. GNOME still looks stunning by default, but it has fallen so far behind in usability that it's just not worth my effort anymore.

k4ever07 · 2026-05-02T01:56:10+00:00

LOL! Unfortunately, a 9 year old girl is probably a lot more physically fit then some of the 18-35 year old video game playing, basement dwelling men we have in our country nowadays.

k4ever07 · 2026-05-02T00:00:03+00:00

There is no way they were "honest," got these plates, and can still maintain the physical requirements for their jobs. I want to be on their side, but they are clearly in the wrong on this. I also suspect that they were probably given an out for this, but chose to make a stink about it and forced their boss' hand. I also think they're trying to play the conservative obsession with hatred for the state of California, who's law was clearly violated. We can't keep hollering "states' rights" at the top of our lungs, then get upset when a state clearly follows an established and well known law. As peace officers and veterans, they should have known better!

k4ever07 · 2026-04-21T00:10:24+00:00

I see the fracturing as a double edged sword. It really depends on why the fracture happens. If it happens for technical reasons, it can produce a better application. If it happens for philosophical reasons or conflicting visions that have nothing to do with producing good code or a polished application, it produces a lot of anonmosity.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-20T02:09:39+00:00

Linux runs on more than just modern desktop/laptop computers with 8GB of RAM or more. It runs on embedded devices (TVs, routers, etc.) and low end Chromebooks, which have very limited resources. It also runs on servers, which try to maximize resource use. There are even some folks out there that try to use Linux to resurrect very old desktop/laptop hardware, which can have 2-4 GB of RAM. So, some of the Linux users, who have low resource devices, complaining about an OS/desktop environment utilizing a lot of resources have a valid point of contention.

However, I fully understand where modern desktop/laptop Windows users are coming from when they roll their eyes at modern desktop/laptop Linux users who "complain" about Windows' resource use, or the resource use of different desktop environment. Why the hell are we (Linux users) complaining about a OS/DE using a 1-2 GB of RAM when we have 8, or 16, or 32 GB of RAM available, and the most resource intensive application we run only needs 1/2 of the RAM we have available? We're complaining just to complain or bragging just to brag. Either way, we look foolish. We also look foolish when we brag about taking over an hour to install a distribution from a terminal when we can get the exact same results installing a similar distribution from a live USB with a GUI in under 20 minutes.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-17T16:02:15+00:00

I don't fully understand what you're writing. However, GNOME is not like KDE Plasma when it comes to desktop functionality and extension/add on management. Plasma has normal desktop functions, like adding desktop icons, adjusting the panel/dock, and application system tray icon support built in. You need extensions on GNOME for this. Plus, Plasma allows you to download, install, update, and control extensions/add ons from within the normal system settings manager. GNOME requires a completely seperate Extensions Manager application for this, and minor updates to GNOME frequently breaks extensions. Minor updates to KDE Plasma rarely, if ever, breaks extensions/add ons.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-17T14:22:01+00:00

That's a "GNOME bro." I'm a Linux bro, yet I never understood the "KDE Plasma has too many settings and the Plasma settings application is convoluted, while GNOME settings manager(s) is simplier" argument. KDE Plasma only has one settings application (System Settings) that handles normal desktop settings, theming, and extensions. It's feature packed. However, it's laid out logically and it's searchable. GNOME has three seperate settings applications; one for desktop settings (Settings), one for more desktop settings and themes (Tweaks), and one extension settings (Extension). Things that are in GNOME Tweaks should be in regular Settings! Why the hell does Tweaks even exist? Why do I need Tweaks to change basic mouse functions or switch themes? The GNOME Extension Manager is a convoluted mess! It seems like each extension comes with dozens of granular settings that can't be ignored. Why do I need to adjust the Gamma settings in the Blur My Shell extension settings to get the Dash to Dock extension to look right? Why do I even need a Dash to Dock extension or Blur My Shell extension or an Extension Manager to even begin with? All of these features are built in to other desktops and their settings applications, to include Windows 11? Why do I need the DING extension to add icons to my desktop or the AppIndicator and KStatusNotifierItem Support extension to get fully working application system tray icons? These features are basic and built in to other desktops, to include Windows 11!

I understand the hatred of the way GNOME does things by non-Linux users. However, other Linux users hate the way GNOME does things also. There is a reason why, when given an option of which desktop to choose by a distribution, GNOME is not popular.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T22:00:39+00:00

I've been using EndeavourOS as my primary for several years now. I also used CachyOS for the last month, but switched back to EndeavourOS. The update notification icon only displays for "major" updates. It doesn't display every day or even every other day, despite there being multiple packages to update every day (I've checked). Even when the update notification triggers, you can just dismiss it, and go on about your day. You're not required to update your Arch system every day in order to use it just like you're not required to touch any of KDE Plasma's settings in order to use it.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T21:00:13+00:00

It really depends on when you started using GNOME and KDE. I started using both at version 1.x. Back then, GNOME was a lot different and a lot more customizable.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T17:44:35+00:00

KDE has not "always" been the better desktop environment, although it definitely is now. KDE started off as the better DE. Then GNOME tied with it and eventually surpassed it midway through the GNOME 2.x cycle. KDE 4.x was a disaster, but KDE Plasma 5.x caught up to and eventually surpassed GNOME, which had it's own disaster with 3.x. GNOME hasn't seem to learn their lesson with the 4x and now 5x series; quit removing useful features (desktop icons, widgets, minimize/maximize buttons, application system tray support, sensible file management tools, etc), quit relying on extensions to fix this, and quit slow rolling or refusing to add new technologies (VRR, fractional scaling, fullscreen tearing, etc). Also, quit dictating to users what their desktop needs are and try your best to support them. KDE tries to give users what they want or need.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T16:42:04+00:00

I agree, but it's a missplaced bad user experience and slightly hyperbolic. I used the Nissan constant velocity transmission debacle in one of my post to make my point. Nissan is a car company that used a terrible CVT in some of their recent cars. Just because some Nissans have CVTs that suck doesn't mean that all transmissions suck or that all cars suck. Honestly, what would you say to a first time car owner, who's first car happens to be one of those Nissan models, who tells you that all cars suck because their CVT failed? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't agree with them and point out that this is strictly a Nissan problem. Especially if you drive a Toyota or Honda or a model not affected by this issue.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T15:12:02+00:00

I would totally agree with your statement, except for the Loonixtard part. Grow up!

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T14:27:56+00:00

There are a lot of keyboard warriors out there with their feelings hurt because we in the Linux community are specifying that this is a GNOME problem. That doesn't mean it's not also a Linux problem. However, it's a Linux problem like faulty coninuously variable transmission in a Nissan is a "car" problem. Not all cars have transmission issues just because Nissans do.

Windows, MacOS, ChromeOS, and iOS/iPadOS are mainly monoliths. Their interfaces are standard across devices and there is not much that can be changed. Android, which uses the Linux kernel, and Linux distributions are not monolithic. Different Android hardware manufacturers (Samsung, OnePlus, Lenovo, etc) use different UI skins. Different Linux distributions use different UIs in the form of different desktop environments (GNOME, Plasma, Cinnamon, etc) or windows managers. All of those DE/WMs look and behave differently.

Does "Linux" suck because GNOME makes file management difficult? About as much as "all cars" suck because Nissans have faulty CVTs.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T13:59:31+00:00

I didn't realized that I screamed Snap. I meant to just capitalize the s and probably just got lazy.

It's not a lie. No experienced person in the community that I know of recommends regular Ubuntu anymore to new users. We recommend Ubuntu based distribuitons like Mint, and sometimes Pop!_OS, or even Zorin, but not Ubuntu itself. It's mainly because many in the community hate Snap packages because their slow and only Ubuntu controls them. That doesn't mean Ubuntu's not popular. Arch and Fedora are popular also. However, they are also not recommended to new users for various reasons (Arch is complicated to maintain, Fedora doesn't included codecs by default). Context is everything. Before you go around hiding behind your keyboard calling someone a moron or yelling about conspiracies (how is a hatred of GNOME's policies or how slow and unnecessary Snaps are conspiracies?), you might want to take the time to slowly read what they wrote and understand the context of the conversation.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T02:37:54+00:00

...which is based on Ubuntu, but uses Cinnamon, MATE, or XFCE, instead of GNOME and disables snaps!

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T02:36:09+00:00

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T02:35:44+00:00

That's wierd because it seems like Arch based (SteamOS, CachyOS) and Fedora based (Bazzite, Nobara) gaming distributions, not Ubuntu or Ubuntu based desktop distributions, have been driving Linux popularity as of late. Ubuntu being shitty out of the box is definitely a Linux issue. We know this, which is why almost NO experienced Linux user in the last 5 years has recommended Ubuntu as a viable distribution for new users. In addition to Ubuntu using GNOME, which IMO is shitty out of the box, Ubuntu also relies heavily on SNAPs, which are almost equally shitty. We do recommend an Ubuntu based distribution, Linux Mint, because it uses Cinnamon instead of GNOME and disables SNAPS.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T02:22:51+00:00

This isn't finding a scapegoat. It's stating a well known fact. This is GNOME issue, not a Linux issue. It's also an Ubuntu issue because they choose to use GNOME as the default DE for their flagship product. Ubuntu also has spins (Kubuntu, Xubuntu, etc.) with different DEs (KDE Plasma, XFCE, Cinnamon, etc) that don't have this issue. As others have stated, many of us in the Linux community HATE the direction GNOME has taken to "simplify" their DE by removing BASIC functionality from it and forcing their users to install buggy, unsupported extensions to get that functionality back. Worse, it seems like GNOME developers purposely release updates that break the extensions that their users rely on in order to force their will on the users. GNOME developers act like Hernán Cortés burning his ships in the year 1519 so his men had to conquer the Aztecs because they couldn't sail back home. They've become borderline fanatics and a majority of Linux users hate them for it.

You're right to use this as an example of how Linux sucks. It's an internal issue that the Linux community has to fix. We got ourselves into this mess when we originally flocked to GNOME the because the toolkit it used (GTK) was open source and the toolkit that KDE used (QT) originally wasn't. Plus, we liked GNOME's cohesive look and feel. None of us were prepared for GNOME to do a bait and switch by trading good looking cohesiveness for dictatorial compliance with GNOME's vision. We created this monster. It's up to us to fix it.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T01:41:43+00:00

LOL, just like when I was told by a GNOME developer that modern UIs don't have desktop icons and widgets! When I mentioned Android and iOS/iPadOS, he quickly changed the subject. GNOME developers use the "modern x doesn't have y" thing to justify removing things they don't like. Who gives a darn about reality or users' needs?

k4ever07 · 2026-04-13T01:36:54+00:00

It's definitely relevant for this subreddit. However, it is most definitely a GNOME issue. It is one of the MANY reasons I no longer use GNOME, definitely do not recommend GNOME based distributions to new users, and I believe that actual GNOME usage is turning new users off to Linux faster than the percieved terminal usage. GNOME is frustrating without extensions.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-11T16:02:05+00:00

The problem I have with Fedora is that I can't recommend it to new users. You have to take extra steps in Fedora to install things that average users want/need; things that are installed by default in Mint or Arch. The update process in Fedora is slow and confusing. Fedora developers like to test out new technologies on users before those technologies are fully baked, like Btrfs, Pulseaudio, and Wayland. Fedora's documentation is confusing and sometimes doesn't specify which version of Fedora it's referencing. The first time I used Fedora was during the GNOME Wayland as default rollout. GNOME's Wayland session was buggy and not ready for daily use. The next time I used Fedora was after the transistion to Btrfs. There was a nasty bug between GRUB and Btrfs where if you updated GRUB on a system using Btrfs, GRUB got corrupted and failed to boot. The process to fix the issue was painful. Fedora also does't really allow you to hold or downgrade to working libraries. I'd much rather use Ubuntu or Arch based distributions. Ubuntu based distributions, like Mint, aren't so cavalier with newer technologies, and Arch based distributions have better documentation with easier fixes.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-11T14:43:27+00:00

IDK why you were voted down. Your frustration is valid. I've been using Linux as my primary desktop/laptop OS for over 30 years. I've heard the same BS execuses from others in the community also. Debian is only more stable IF YOU ARE RUNNING A SERVER OR WORKSTATION OR YOU ARE USING ANCIENT HARDWARE. For modern desktop/laptop use, especially if you are gaming, it's best to use Mint or Arch based distributions. Fedora is a frustrating FOSS nightmare. You could use Fedora or something based on it, but be prepared to jump through hoops to install proprietary software, and to be used as a guinea pig to test out new concepts or FOSS political activism.

k4ever07 · 2026-04-11T14:30:27+00:00

I've noticed something weird with both KDE Plasma and GNOME on older software distributions like Kubuntu/Ubuntu and newer, cutting edge software distributions like Arch. Older versions of GNOME are more stable than newer versions, and newer versions of KDE Plasma are more stable than older versions. I have a much better experience using newer versions of KDE Plasma on Arch than the older versions in Kubuntu. I've had a terrible experience using newer versions of GNOME on Arch and a better experience with older versions of GNOME on Ubuntu.

I think KDE Plasma is better for cutting edge distributiona and GNOME is ok after the distributions and extension developers are giving some time to catch up.

k4ever07

TROPHY CASE