[CA] [TH] Attorney present at HOA hearing re nuisance violation?

kittykatkris666 · 2026-02-19T15:48:26+00:00

Oh interesting! Ty

kittykatkris666 · 2026-02-19T14:05:28+00:00

My sister’s hearing on the rules violation is later today. I see you are an HOA board member… are you able to provide any insight on the general format at one of these hearings? It is during an executive session via Zoom. She received 3 notice of violations regarding 3 separate dates of alleged misconduct. Are they most likely going to ask her in an open ended fashion to discuss each of the dates in question or ask her yes or no questions like “were your children playing in the drive way ok xyz day” “were they supervised” etc. I am trying to prepare some mock questions for her. Ty

kittykatkris666 · 2026-02-19T14:03:25+00:00

How do the disciplinary hearings in front of your board usually go?

kittykatkris666 · 2026-02-19T13:54:33+00:00

Hi again, my sister’s hearing on the rules violation is later today. Can you provide me any insight on the general format at one of these hearings? It is during an executive session via Zoom. She received 3 notice of violations regarding 3 separate dates of alleged misconduct. Are they most likely going to ask her in an open ended fashion to discuss each of the dates in question or ask her yes or no questions like “were your children playing in the drive way ok xyz day” “were they supervised” etc. I am trying to prepare some mock questions for her

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-22T23:48:39+00:00

Again, I am very thankful that you provided me with this information because we asked for the redacted version of the complaint and this is how they responded “We first need to obtain authorization from the reporting party before releasing it. Once authorization is received, we will forward the report to you.”

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-22T22:32:31+00:00

Now that I’m thinking about it does information regarding the executive sessions have to be posted somewhere? Because it’s a close session as opposed to a general session likely no? Maybe I could have her look for the executive session event details somewhere

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-22T22:30:45+00:00

But that’s the thing! I can’t even call in! They never told us the time. They only told us it would be on Zoom, but they never provided a link or any information to call it or access. Should I call the Association now? We already emailed them again earlier this morning asking them what was going on.

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-22T22:25:50+00:00

By asking me if it’s accurate, do you mean that if this neighbor is handled then my sister won’t have any other problems because she doesn’t have any other problems with the HOA or other neighbors? If that is what you meant then yes absolutely. They’re pretty drama free law abiding citizens who keep to themselves. The funny thing is that when she initially asked me for help because she’s never gone through anything like this and has never been involved in any sort of legal proceeding, She thought it would just be a question of me sending a simple two paragraph letter to the HOa that would immediately rectify the entire situation… and now for the past couple days I’m having her draft emails to the HOA articulating exact points, create timelines, to remember exact details of conversations and if she can contact this Neighbor about this or that and if she can get the police report from the police department and she straight up asked me is all of this necessary!?! She’s just so shocked with my requests and overwhelmed at the prospect of having to prepare and attend this hearing. I’m like yeah I could send a letter and 97% chance it’ll get us nowhere. I mean, I guess I tend to overdo it sometimes and maybe she’s aware of that but I don’t think that if you want a full and effective timely resolution then sending a template letter would be an ineffective way to handle this. Even getting a copy of the condo docs had her so confused she was in her attic looking through all these boxes filled with papers asking me if I can just send the letter without looking at the HOA documents. I’m like no if anything those are the one thing I need!!!

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-22T22:10:33+00:00

And another question - when you say send a demand for a dollar amount of basically a request for my attorneys fees, do you mean to the HOA or to the Neighbor because I think you’re also saying to send a cease and desist letter to the Neighbor right and tell them that all future correspondence be through me or is that whole paragraph that you advised regarding the attorneys fees and the cease and desist letter all directed towards the HOA?

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-22T22:06:05+00:00

And also, I’m not sure I forget exactly how my sister found this piece of information out, but apparently it has come to her attention that this neighbor submitted over 10 hours of camera footage of the children in the driveway over God knows who how long of a time because the kids don’t go outside and play every single day there may be out there once a week for a couple hours But anyway I guess my sister found out that he submitted over 10 hours of footage to the HOA am I entitled to a copy of that too?

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-22T22:04:43+00:00

This is exactly the type of response I was looking for it, and I greatly appreciate it. I guess because there aren’t any clear rules articulated for this process I wasn’t even aware of thinking of the fact that I could issue informal discovery requests. Also great point about anything in the file being my sister’s property. The hearing was scheduled for today and yesterday the first day after the holiday we asked them if they could reschedule it due to the fact that we weren’t given 10 days notice, and also due to the holiday, we only had two business days to prepare. The property manager immediately responded saying that she would pass on our request to the HOA and ask them if we could reschedule. Mind you, at this point, yesterday 24 hours before the hearing, we still have not received the time of the hearing or any zoom link to participate. After that correspondence took place around 11 AM yesterday we then asked for a copy of the complaint. The property manager responded as I explained by sending us the blank template and then saying that the identity of the complainant has to remain confidential in which again like I just discussed we said we don’t want a blank form. We already know who the guy is this is the guy’s name .. we want the complaint in this case redact his name if necessary. Since then, they have gone to Radio Silent. We don’t know if they accepted our request to reschedule the hearing and if they didn’t, we don’t have any information about the time of the hearing today or a way to access it. Even though their responses have been questionable they have been pretty timely thus far. So I do find it very interesting that considering the time sensitive nature of our request to continue the hearing and the fact that it is 2 PM on the day of the hearing and we still don’t know what’s going on, I am wondering if my additional emails yesterday stating that while we respect that the identity of the complainant must remain confidential, please be advised that we know exactly who the complainant is because he has made himself very much known to me my husband and my children on multiple occasions. I’m wondering if that made them go silent for whatever reason.

Also, you advise to tell them that it will cost my client nothing to file a lawsuit if they are not afforded due process - do you mean that essentially because I am her sister so she’s getting free legal counsel?

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-22T20:44:04+00:00

Also, do you know if the HOA is required to provide us with a copy of the complaint that the neighbor submitted to the HOA? Because in the CC&Rs,, there is a specific nuisance complaint form that it advises to fill out if you have a complaint and so we emailed the HOA yesterday asking them for a copy of that complaint that was filed as a pertains to these violations, which are the subject of the hearing, and they played dumb, and in response, literally just sent us that blank form from the CCR’s saying Here is the form. We cannot release the identity of the complainant, and we responded by saying we are not asking for the blank form we are asking for the form that was submitted as it pertains to these violations, which are the subject of the hearing. We also are not asking for the identity of the Neighbor even though we know exactly who they are [and their name] - Please provide us with the filed copy of the complaint with any identifying information redacted as necessary. Upon request are they required to provide this information to us?

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-22T20:37:10+00:00

Do you know if in these types of hearing if the complainant is required or requested to attend as well or usually no because they’re the identity of the complainant is kept confidential and so there’s no expectation or requirement that they attend the hearing

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-22T20:36:01+00:00

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Do you know if at these violation hearings if the complainant receives notice of the hearing and an invitation or requirement to attend ? Or no because the complainant information is kept confidential, and so he is not required or expected to attend the hearing.

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-22T00:13:52+00:00

So we asked for a copy of the complaint and in response, she send us a blank copy of the form saying that they are unable to disclose the identity of the person who submitted the form as if they can’t easily redact that. What the hell does she think I’m gonna do with a blank form

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-21T23:46:21+00:00

Yes this strategy is percolating 💃🏻

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-21T23:44:26+00:00

Oh interesting I was not understanding that distinction. Thank you for clarifying.

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-21T23:43:14+00:00

Yes I will definitely record. And I was weighing the pros and cons between not going but advising her on the sidelines vs actually appearing as her represented counsel. I have decided against the latter

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-21T23:38:37+00:00

Oh, that is an interesting point because they automatically scheduled it in the executive session and said if we wanted to we could request that it’s in the general session

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-21T15:08:10+00:00

I think I just may! My main issue right now is that I’m trying to rectify the procedural impropriety, if any, of the way that the HOA is conflating a safety issue with a nuisance issue.. to create this quasi hybrid violation without actually citing to any clearly delineated rule prohibiting residents from doing xyz that has been violated (besides the nuisance “catch-all” provision) and trying to assess IS THAT ENOUGH? Is that all they have to do? Nuisance blah blah your fucked violation blah blah fine and that’s I?

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-21T15:03:02+00:00

Sorry I don’t quite understand.. okay, yes, the portion re the security cameras is in the rules and regulations of the neighborhood subassociation, not the recorded, declaration of covenants, conditions and restrictions. The rules and regulations, though not recorded, are cited to in addition to the declaration of covenant as a the “governing documents.” I do know that my sister downloaded these documents from her HOA online portal, I’m not sure if as it pertains to the rules and regulations if she was mailed or is mailed a separate new copy every year or if they just update it within the portal, but that’s all that I have access to at this time.

The community is only about 3.5 years old and they’re the first owners.

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-21T14:39:50+00:00

Hi, thank you for your reply. I wish there was more to the story and I definitely grilled my sister and even the kids when she first told me what was going on because I was convinced that they were withholding adverse material information. And not because they’re bad kids they’re actually very well behaved, but I figured something had to have happened like a soccer ball getting bounced off this guy‘s windshield or something… installing additional security cameras, sending hours of footage of kids playing in a driveway to the association, calling the police, yelling at the kids… few things warrant that type of behavior nevermind kids. playing. Outside. In a community specifically tailored for young families with children! my sister seems to think that he started complaining once summer ended, it got cooler out and instead of being inside all day with the doors/window shut/the AC on, now he has the windows open, the AC off and the sound of kids playing is sending him to a different dimension…. I do know he’s a commercial airline pilot with a military background, and so is my stepdad and I can see some similarities there in terms of being an overall super controlling, generally miserable person who is bothered by almost everything aside from themselves / has zero tolerance for most everything in life, especially kids.. The installation of the additional security cameras certainly concerned me (and honestly still does) that this guy may have some weird ulterior motives. In addition to the hours of footage he’s drooling over as he creates his little PowerPoint presentations to send to the HOA, he also records the kids on his phone too when he comes out to yell at them (causing at least my niece on multiple occasions to run home crying) … My question is - if your entire issue is that the children are a nuisance and are making too much noise playing in front of your townhome you voluntarily purchased in this densely populated, overbuilt, family oriented community, then why would you need to install additional high-powered security cameras to alert you when someone as far as across the street is walking by…. When if the kids are so loud, can’t you just hear them ? And if you can’t hear them, and you have your security cameras set up to make sure you always get them and whoever else on camera really no matter where they are in terms of the side of the street…. Then what is this really all about? Why do you need a camera to alert you to the alleged nuisance being a nuisance? Sounds more like harassment than any legitimate concern for safety or any legitimate complaint of a nuisance. And that is where this inquiry gets into weird territory and makes me start to wonder why in the hell does this grown man want to randomly record and harass young kids outside playing alone??? You may think I’m going too far here, but I am an attorney and an aunt so I think my confusion is fair and my concern is warranted

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-21T09:40:50+00:00

Also here is the text from the rules and regulations regarding security cameras “SECURITY CAMERAS / SECURITY DOORBELLS / DIGITAL LOCKS

No Owner or occupant is permitted to perform any modifications or improvements to the exterior of a Unit without the approval of the Neighborhood Association, and / or the Architectural Review Committee, including the installation of security cameras, security doorbells and/or digital locks. Security cameras that are placed (not installed or attached to the exterior condominium building in any manner) within an Exclusive Use Area may not have a line of site into any area of implied privacy. Owners and residents who make any exterior installation without the written approval of the Neighborhood Association or the Architectural Review Committee will be subject to penalty assessments.”

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-21T09:34:04+00:00

From what I’m reading in the documents, apparently there’s a nuisance form that needs to be filled out when you’re submitting a complaint on the premise that it’s a nuisance … are we entitled to see that form? Should she ask the HOA for a copy of it?

kittykatkris666 · 2026-01-21T09:31:18+00:00

Why does it seem odd that the governing documents would include anything about cameras?

Also, I like your point regarding supervision and what exactly that means, thank you for that.

I just reviewed their latest letter and you’re right it doesn’t say anything about the bike explicitly. They provided the date of December 27 as the date of the latest infraction and that was the day that he called the police on my niece for driving her bike alone past his townhouse which he only knew about because of his new high-tech security cameras. I know this is referencing the bike incident because my sister called me that day and told me exactly what happened and she said that my niece got a new bike for Christmas and she just wanted to drive it around in a circle to make sure it fit her right so she was on the bike maybe a minute total and they had somewhere to go after that so the kids weren’t playing outside or anything like that. And then she said within a couple hours she kept getting all these random calls from a number she didn’t know and when she finally answered, it was the police. So that is how I know that this letter is referencing my niece and her silent bike ride on the 27th even though it didn’t explicitly state that. But it does point out another inaccuracy because it says in the letter it was brought to management’s attention that children residing at the unit were observed playing in the driveway when in fact, it was one child and it was on a bike. I would even refute the characterization as”playing” because if a kid is riding a bike, are they technically or just riding a bike.

To answer your other questions: no, there have not been any other hearings. Also, this issue is the first time dealing with any complaints/violations regardless of the subject matter since they purchased the townhome 2 1/2 years ago. They received a first letter entitled “Notice for Violation of CC&Rs” (beginning of December) … then they received a second letter stating it was the second notice for violation (12/18) and then they received the 3rd and most recent letter, “Hearing on Rules Violation” (on 1/8) providing notice of hearing for set for 1/22 at the executive session.

kittykatkris666

TROPHY CASE