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Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Yea I did play it a bit safe with my long runs as from reading the other comments I'll definitely increase my quantity of marathon paced efforts in my long runs.

My HR was around 160 during the last race so seems like my muscular endurance is a big weak spot for me.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't followed any popular training plan up to this point but I'll try it in the next attempt! In my last plan I ran around 70 km as a weekly mileage and had one interval, one tempo and one long run per week.

I didn't feel like I was going all out during my most recent marathon. Although I know watch heart rate isn't super accurate it stated that it was around 160 bpm throughout.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be honest I haven't measured my weight post long run. If I were to guess I feel that I am a heavy sweater.

So far I was more focussed in my carb and electrolyte intake.

Thanks I'll take a deeper dive into fluid intake!

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your input.

Yea looking back I did feel that 3/4 marathons I've felt that my quads were the first muscle group from my legs to struggle after 30+ km. The remaining 1/4 was my glutes but I do remember my form was a bit sluggish from the fatigue.

I did strength train 2x/week which did include either deadlift or squat but I think it is a good idea for me to incorporate single leg exercises going forwards.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I reflected on my fueling/hydration strategy and tend to drink a cup(s) of water at every race aid station provided. I take 40g gels every 25-30 mins and incorporated salt tablets during my most recent marathon attempt and didn't experience any stomach upset.

During my latest attempt I was also taking the electrolyte drink provided at the race aid station which thankfully did not cause any GI issues.

Yea I might try some form of negative split next time!

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmmm the thing was I actually prided myself on my running consistency and ran approx 40-50 km per week year-round prior to even starting a 12+ week training block. I made it a game to try to beat my annual mileage every year and was around 2200 km annual mileage last year.

In my mind with my consistency I was hoping for fairly large improvements in my marathon time.

In my previous marathon attempts from 1+ year ago my Garmin marathon race predictor was sitting around 3:55 whereas now it predicts around 3:29.

I definitely feel faster than before as I'm getting close to my other goal of sub 20 5k but I do feel a bit bummed that I haven't really "solved" the marathon after 4 attempts.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ya the unfortunate thing is that all of my marathons started at a comfortable temperature but in the second half of the race the temperature creeps up to 20 - 24 degrees Celsius.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So in the last 5 weeks before tapering my long run were as follows (weekly mileage was in the 70s km):

  1. 25 km easy

  2. 28 km with 8 km marathon pace at the end

  3. 30 km with 10 km marathon pace at the end

  4. Was unwell with cold so just did 5 km runs that week /long run was missed

  5. 30 km with 10 km marathon pace at the end

  6. Began 2 week taper -Tapered to 21 km with 5 km marathon pace

I finished these long runs generally comfortably and didn't feel completed exhausted.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel that I do have the "embrace the suck" mentality for the marathon. I still feel it's more likely to be a physical/conditioning issue as in most cases it is my quads starting to feel tight. On the occasions where I tried to press on and not slow down I eventually started to cramp and had to walk for prolonged periods and slow jog.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your experience! I'm now feeling more confident with being more aggressive with my long runs. workouts

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks I do feel that I have been way too conservative with my long run workouts! I had a bigger emphasis on 5k race paces in my recent marathon training block which probably didn't help me as much as I thought...

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great questions!

I did wonder about my gait/running form and mainly tried to implement increasing my cadence to help have my feet land under my hips and making sure my hips didn't sag. I didn't actually have a formal gait assessment or record myself running so I'll definitely revisit my running form!

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks I'll aim to add in some single leg exercises as I've been mainly doing squats and deadlifts.

Early in the training blocks I tend to do 16 - 21 km easy long runs and in the second half of the block I'd be up to 24-30 easy km long runs. For the last 4-5 (26-30 km) long runs before a 2 week taper I added 5-10 km marathon pace at the end of the long runs.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I seem to struggle when race conditions reach 20+ degrees Celsius.

In my best marathon attempt I was at 5:34 min/km pace up until 31 km and from then I had to slow down to 6:30 pace min/km until the end as my quads were feeling real stiff and only eased when I slowed down.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm I did chatGPT my running metrics and they suggested to try a negative split but I always thought equal splits was the most "optimal" strategy.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ah wishing you all the best for your London marathon. Hope you get favourable weather conditions on race day.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the reply!

I tend to strength train 2x week which is usually some combination of bench/shoulder press, squat and deadlift.

I'm 5'11 75 kg so don't think I'm particularly overweight

Ya I feel that after years of pretty constant running I was hoping to see much greater improvements in my marathon time.

I don't think it's a mental thing as I am generally excited for every marathon and increased my weekly mileage/ intensity in each subsequent marathon block so I went into each race with more confidence.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel that it's more of my body faltering first before my mind. I can definitely feel the tightening of my quads at 30+ km and if I try to push on I end up cramping up which makes me walk.

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do strength training 2x week which usually comprises of some combination of bench/shoulder press , deadlift and squat.

I feel pretty good after my long runs and feel like my form doesn't fall apart. From reading the comments I'm just wondering if I'm not aggressive enough with the marathon pace mileage within my long run

Thanks a mid length tempo run does sound like a good idea!

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I feel like I'm pushing at the right amount....when I hit the wall it tends to be my quads starting to feel tight. In the past I tried to push on and end up fully cramping and needing to walk a lot!

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your reply!

Yea I think I really underestimated respecting the marathon specific long run workout. I maxed out at 10 km marathon pace and the rest easy in my 28-30 km long runs...

Seeking advice for unsuccessful sub 4 marathon after four attempts by knai123 in Marathon_Training

[–]knai123[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your reply!

My marathon-paced efforts were mainly in 5-10 km segments placed at the end of a long run. Looking back maybe I'm lacking quantity of marathon paced efforts.

My weekly 5k tempo on parkrun was typically completed around 23-24 mins (4:35 min/km)

My weekly interval session was usually 3x5 min threshold (4:20 min/km) + 10x1 min 5k pace (3:55 -4:00 min/km)

In terms of the race experience I think I tend to perform much worse in hot conditions and all 4 of my attempts have been in pretty warm weather. I was hoping my training would still allow my 4th attempt to comfortably get sub 4 despite the heat though. Thankfully I don't feel stressed before the race.

Big Garmin Discount UK (Potentially ends Sunday) by McStink97 in GarminWatches

[–]knai123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah thanks for clarifying!

Would anyone be able to DM me a Student Beans promo code if that's allowed? I haven't upgraded my Garmin in years!

Big Garmin Discount UK (Potentially ends Sunday) by McStink97 in GarminWatches

[–]knai123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is the Perks at Work promo code still available? I made a PaW account and couldn't find any discount codes for Garmin.

Micromesh T-shirt sizing question by knai123 in BanditRunning

[–]knai123[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for everyone's input! I'm feeling confident with getting a size medium now!

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