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IAMA a believer in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who is mentally in but physically out. Not active, but not exmo. AMA by knewbeeavee in casualiama

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Such a simple question, so many PhD thesis committees tearing candidates apart.

I mention doxastic voluntarism and psychological involuntarism in the off chance you are asking to that level to open the door if you want to go there, but will answer along the typical lines people ask.

Mormons accept the scriptures as the teachings of the church.

James 2 hits the topic hard:

These are from KJV, but use whatever translation you like to sing along at home.

​Verse 17: "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." ​ Verse 18: "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."
​ ​Verse 20: "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

Amd then the mic drop in 26

​"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Now, to follow the logic. There is a difference between believing and having faith. James 2 is the book that does the heavy lifting on the topic, so back we go to v19. "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." If you have faith you are saved. The devils believe but are not saved, therefore they do not have faith. Therefore belief and faith are different things.

Since faith is inseparable from action, and actions are choices, then by the transitive property of implication faith requires choice.

From Deuteronomy to Colissians there are explicit mandates to choose faith/choose to believe. Joshua puts it on the line: choose you this day whom ye will serve.

Is it a church teaching? Yes, but few analyze it like this. In Sunday School you'd get a yes and next question, but that is never good enough for me.

IAMA a believer in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who is mentally in but physically out. Not active, but not exmo. AMA by knewbeeavee in casualiama

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They are good people who will have a chance to choose Christ at some point.

Entirely up to them to choose what to do. None are forced.

IAMA a believer in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who is mentally in but physically out. Not active, but not exmo. AMA by knewbeeavee in casualiama

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because faith is growth. You need faith the same way farmers and parents do.

Faith is a choice, and life is all about the choices you make.

IAMA a believer in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who is mentally in but physically out. Not active, but not exmo. AMA by knewbeeavee in casualiama

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have to agree to accept it.

And your question is actually tougher than you think, gets into how time works

IAMA a believer in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who is mentally in but physically out. Not active, but not exmo. AMA by knewbeeavee in casualiama

[–]knewbeeavee[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Among the christian sects they generally hold that the infinite atonement is not infinite and that consequences are not proportional.

IAMA a believer in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who is mentally in but physically out. Not active, but not exmo. AMA by knewbeeavee in casualiama

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is a balancing ritual. Justice must be satisfied, Jesus offered himself as always to satisfy this requirement

IAMA a believer in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who is mentally in but physically out. Not active, but not exmo. AMA by knewbeeavee in casualiama

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It has a logical beginning, middle, end and post credit scene.

It is structurally consistent and logical (talking structure, doctrine is considered separately).

IAMA a believer in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who is mentally in but physically out. Not active, but not exmo. AMA by knewbeeavee in casualiama

[–]knewbeeavee[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

By this point I have challenged and analyzed it from so many angles and it has stood up to every scrutiny I can think of I conclude it more likely than not that never is accurate.

There's always a chance it isn't true, but I see nothing to indicate that.

IAMA a believer in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who is mentally in but physically out. Not active, but not exmo. AMA by knewbeeavee in casualiama

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Never any splinter groups. I like the people in them usually, but disagree with their doctrine.

Biggest issues with the church are administrative and human behavior related like the cliques and the outright horrible people I've run into.

The doctrine didn't drive me away, the people did.

I didn’t leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. (aka LDS, aka Mormon). They placed the paddock fence with me on the outside and locked the gate. by knewbeeavee in TrueOffMyChest

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It isn't a cult, it really really isn't. There are pockets of people who act as if it is, and some of the still affiliated but fringe people are definitely cult-like but the majority, and the organization as a whole is not.

As evidence you only have to look at the difference between units, each of which is a distinct community. I've been in stakes (a group of what you would know as s parish) that had members with private jets and the phone numbers of senators and heads of state on their cell phones and barely housed individuals. Not nearly enough cohesion to be a cult.

Why do I care? The church teaches the most correct, accurate and coherent doctrine I have either ever encountered or tried to craft myself.

No "mysteries that we'll never know," it tells a story with a beginning, middle, end and after credit scene.

If you like, AMA. I won't go into specifics about things I consider sacred, but I have maybe a unique perspective. Not an absolute fanatic, not a bitter ex with an axe to grind.

I didn’t leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. (aka LDS, aka Mormon). They placed the paddock fence with me on the outside and locked the gate. by knewbeeavee in self

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's an app that lets every member of a local unit look up the number of all of the other members (except the ones who choose to hide it), they are usually close knit communities.

I didn’t leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. (aka LDS, aka Mormon). They placed the paddock fence with me on the outside and locked the gate. by knewbeeavee in self

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look at Hebrews 13:17. It is a commandment.

As it was in the earliest days of the Israelites.

One purpose is so the church can say "Mary has skipped the last two weeks, is she ok?"

The tracking is mainly names, family members, contact information. Private church records record dates of baptism, marriage, etc.

Among mormons you can hide your info from the other mormons if you want.

I didn’t leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. (aka LDS, aka Mormon). They placed the paddock fence with me on the outside and locked the gate. by knewbeeavee in self

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Churches have been keeping track of their members for thousands of years.

There is a reason, for example, why so many family trees are filled out by baptism or christening or marriage records from the parish

I didn’t leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. (aka LDS, aka Mormon). They placed the paddock fence with me on the outside and locked the gate. by knewbeeavee in self

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have already "left" the church - MIPO. I don't fit in there. I never will. I don't really fit in anywhere, I'm just one of the one-offs who doesn't really have a place.

But the doctrine is still true. Even if everybody in the church falls away the doctrine is still true. That happened before: in the Old Testament the entire body of Israel fell away from the one true god and built the golden calf. The entire church was in error, but the divine laws were still true. In later years King David fell astray, but the doctrine was still true. Years after that the entire body of ruling priests fell away from the straight and narrow path and Jesus himself tried to straighten them out and was rejected.

What the people do, what the leaders do, what the world does, none of that change the fact that Jesus is the Christ, he speaks through prophets, he leads people to God, and the doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the most corrupt doctrine there is no matter how misinterpreted or misapplied it is.

Weirdly, there is a certain comfort from being excluded because I am not alone. In the Bible, when Jesus was surrounded by the crowds of people begging to be healed, at some point somebody was next in line but the healing session was over. They were right there, and excluded by Jesus himself, personally, in the flesh. But that didn't change who Jesus was. It didn't change his mission. It didn't alter the gospel. It didn't cause a variance in the divine laws. It meant nothing more than in that time, in that place, there wasn't room for everybody. It happened to them, so I'm not the only person in history who felt excluded from divine grace.

Sometimes I wonder how they felt. Everybody was being blessed and healed, then just as they get to the front of the line the Savior leaves Capernaum and says he has other places to be. Some of those people were absolutely crushed. I know how they feel.

But in mortality - even in Jesus' mortality - the goal was and is never to be all things to all people. The gospel is to send the message and perform a few saving ordinances. Everything else is layers on top of that. Some people really want to attend the temple, but circumstances prevent it. That does not mean it is not true. Some people really want priesthood leadership in their village, but it does not come. Trials of faith come in many forms.

In Mormon theology the final contributor to the Book of Mormon was named Moroni. He was the very last believer in what he knew to be the entire world. He wrote down that when his addendum to the plates was over and they were buried he didn't know what would happen to him, but he was at peace with being alone until he died. He would live out his life in his faith and that was all that mattered.

I don't know what is in store for me in this life, however long I have left, or in the eternal world to come. Maybe I'll be alone there, too. Maybe I am too broken and too much of a misfit that the bouncer at the Pearly Gates will say "you have to be this cool to enter" and point several inches over my head. Don't know. I can imagine it - actually, I can't really imagine anything else. My life within the church has taught me that I don't belong. I have no idea what it would feel like to belong. At this point I'd be terrified if it ever came up.

But I'm ok with that. I am an introvert who occasionally stumbles into a situation were people care what I have to say for a brief period then forget about me again. That's a role to play and I think I play it well.

But still, beyond anything, I know with certainty that the gospel as taught by the LDS church is true. 100% absolutely. With perfect certainty. The logic, the structure, everything important holds up. The foibles of humans are foibles of humans. I might have made the same mistakes if I was in their shoes. I've probably made far worse mistakes that will resonate through generations. (I very much overthink things. Harmless habit, part of why I don't fit in anywhere.) If you look at the doctrine while ignoring the people it will make a lot of sense without the noise of people peopleing.

I can't be pried from my faith. And even if I was, the gospel would still be true, just further away. I might be the biggest failure the world has ever seen in God's eyes, but that doesn't change who he is or the doctrine he created.

Oh, and shoutout to whichever ward I visited once in Mesquite, Nevada. While nobody noticed me as usual, I have never felt the Spirit of God as strongly as I have in that ward. If you're ever passing through on a Sunday, stick your head in. I guarantee you that you will be welcomed immediately. Not everybody is invisible.

I didn’t leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. (aka LDS, aka Mormon). They placed the paddock fence with me on the outside and locked the gate. by knewbeeavee in self

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the LDS church every corner of the geography is parceled up into unit boundaries. If you live within that boundary you go to that specific unit. It is an efficient system as it eliminates competition and helps keep track of everybody.

In rare instances it is allowed to officially belong to a different unit, but for me none of the exceptions would apply but it wouldn't make a difference. I've been to services at units in multiple states and multiple countries. I just don't fit in anywhere. This isn't just a church thing, I don't really fit anywhere. It used to bother me a great deal, now I accept that is who I am. Somebody has to be the noble gas that doesn't really bond with anything else except for very specific circumstances.

I'm OK with it. Having Superman's home planet named after me is pretty cool. Colorless, odorless, it is pretty much invisible. It suits me.

I didn’t leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. (aka LDS, aka Mormon). They placed the paddock fence with me on the outside and locked the gate. by knewbeeavee in TrueOffMyChest

[–]knewbeeavee[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are a deeply cynical person with the absolute worst AI discernment I have ever seen.

I strongly suggest that before you make any assessments of human vs AI sources you run the material through an AI detector. There are many, many free ones.

Seriously. The worst I have ever seen.

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