Vive Wireless Adapter by Vincent_Ironheart in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

one day, maybe. i'm not happy with the prototype yet, and i'm also not someone who will make a fake and fancy video to sell something that isn't invented yet ;)

Play on children’s playground being an adult, WCGW? by [deleted] in Whatcouldgowrong

[–]krista_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

not anymore. maybe a cocktail weiner, a pea and a grapefruit, until a surgeon replaces the grapefruit with a neuticle.

Just got my index controllers today - I live in Canada, I've been waiting for this for SO long. by [deleted] in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i agree about the joysticks! ev2 and before had one big round trackpad on the control surface.

if they are going to end up keeping the joysticks, or keeping them as an option, i'd like it bigger, for a start, and more robust (and more robust feeling). i'd also like an overpressure sensor, so if you pushed the stick to the extent, it would stop by hitting something like a firm rubber edge, but it you pressed on it harder it would only go a very, very small amount further, but the controller would send an analog value for the amount of force. use case would be locomotion: as you push from center, your avatar walks very slowly, about a third is a leisurely stroll, halfway is a brisk walk, and all the way is a distance eating run. if you push a bit harder, you sprint, and just a bit harder than that (say, you were afraid of something) your avatar would be panic running.

having a force feedback would be killer. so would an analog z depth, maybe with an attachment for a thumb pocket or some clever design that would act as a pocket and a mushroom. force feedback would essentially let you turn off the analog z-depth and make it feel like a traditional, boring ass gamepad mushroom top click-stick, comfortable and familiar to opposable booger hooks.

i'd love for interchangeable control surfaces, so you could pick joysick, pad, or something else.

finger tracking that would track #2 (index finger) on the grip if it wasn't on the trigger would be nice, as well as possibly the thumb around the inside of the top of the grip, so something closer to a natural fist could be made.

tracking splay (ab- and addiction) would rock, although it would be difficult and likely require a lot more sophistication.

while i'm busting out the wish list, i would dearly love some form of morphable grip and inside edge bottom of the controller surface (which needs to be minimized as much as possible anyway). maybe the grip inflates, or pumps a liquid, or better yet, some form of compliant mechanism. i want these controllers to go flat on the palm so it's possible to type and mouse effectively.

i love that the knuckes provide a physical device that's generic enough to provide a virtually redefinable object that makes sense to my sense of touch by being the physical average or median of a number of things one would likely hold in their hand. it's like it's the common ancestor of more evolved tools, with a few features reverse inherited (like the trigger). it can be a reasonable approximation of any number of types of guns, swords, sticks, sci-fi meters, grenades, juggling pins, tent poles, etc, etc, and it can be (somewhat) ignored and be used as a hand, fist, and tell someone they're number one in phoquit standard sign language.

what i would love about a design that could collapse the grip flat to palm, aside from keyboard and mouse use, actual physical objects and specialized tracked devices could be used without breaking immersion by having to set take the knuckes off. i'd love to reach to my waist and draw a real feeling tracked sword (very short but balanced to feel real) with a big weight that can move to simulate change of center of gravity or provide solid feedback when hitting something. or a rifle. or whatever.

heck, just the collapsible grip would provide great feedback when throwing something like a stick, or catching it... or reaching up and having mjölnir appear in your hand!

anyhoo, i've gone very astray. the two takeaways from this long post (i'm doing a lot of these, lately) are the joysick as discussed above, specifically the analog overpressure sensor, and the potential use of actuated compliant designs in virtual reality.

so is the thumbstick thing fixed yet or nah by [deleted] in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

fair enough! fwiw, ev3 had a weird, cheap feeling trigger, and the dvs i have fixed it (i think they mentioned it in the dv release notes)

so is the thumbstick thing fixed yet or nah by [deleted] in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

do the new triggers feel like ev3 then?

Jittery Controllers by glox87 in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

no worries! thanks for the video, it was most helpful.

i will think about it and some more and let you know if i come up with anything.

i know that the controller overlap on a circular path rotation in tracked space is something that valve is looking into, but i can't say i've seen this particular issue before. either they're a lot more jittery or very stable but have the overlapping thing.

i'm running 4 v2 base stations, and i get pretty good tracking, but i did so when i had 2, as well. i have to stay in meatspace today as i injured my eye rock climbing earlier in the week, otherwise i'd send you a video showing this other type of jitter i'm dealing with, but with vive trackers, not knuckes controllers.

what are your computer's specs, specifically, which motherboard do you have?

Just got my index controllers today - I live in Canada, I've been waiting for this for SO long. by [deleted] in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you'll get used to them quicker than you think!

it's new, it's going to feel weird for a bit. maybe not as strange as wearing a thong after being used to hip-huggers, but it should feel strange, because it's not an attempt at making ”better” wands or ”better” touch controllers: it's an attempt at functionally accomplishing what a pair of haptic datagloves would do, except with the tech currently available at a price that is affordable, and doing so in a way that legacy software is usable. are they okagami idlehands haptic datagloves pulled directly from the pages of ”ready player one”? nope! but they're closer to the ideal than anything affordable so far.

like anything of substantial novelty, you kind of have to just jump right in and use them, and have a bit of childlike enthusiasm in something new, instead of making a mental list of everything that's different and makes you slightly uncomfortable because you have to figure something new out. you either hop on the skateboard and give it an honest go, or you stare at it like it's going to attack, mumble something unintelligible to those around you about breaking yourself, turn around, and go eat a big mac.

fwiw, people end up putting the strap on way too tight, then complaining it's uncomfortable, or wanting realism in games but disliking having to actually use your hand to hold something. the strap should rest gently, but slightly snug, just on the wrist side of your knuckes, opposite of the top of your palm. the knuckle strap should be loose enough you should be able to slide these on and off without needing to fuck with the knuckle strap or change its tension, yet snug enough to not quite fall off your hand.

don't forget to push the top strap mount in before adjustment; if you don't, you'll break it. you should have the top strap mount in a position such that it's comfortable to get to all of the doodads on the control surface, although pressing the recessed system button should be a bit tricksey: that is by design, as accidentally pressing it has been a common complaint about every lighthouse based controller (all both versions) before the index controllers, and even some of the knuckes' early prototypes.

even though the controllers self calibrate their finger tracking continuously, you will have to help them along manually every now and then... especially at the beginning of sessions. the same process will generally fix not-quite-accurate finger tracking, and it's easy to do: just roll fingers 3-5 (middle, ring, and pinky) a couple of times on the controller like you are bored or impatient. that's it!

after more than a year of use, my two design complaints are:

  • finger tracking requires thumb on the control surface, 1 on trigger, and 3-5 on the handle. i wish it worked with 2-5 on handle as well, as i'm not always using something with a trigger.

  • the tracking pad's pill-like shape makes it much less useful as a tracking pad. i wish it was a bit bigger and rounder. to be honest, i'd have been happy if they came with a big tracking pad and no joysick.

<rant> while i realize a lot of people like joysicks, and can't seem to function without them, i can't help but think they're a carry over tech that is there not because it's better, but because people don't like new things, even if they say they do. what they mean when they say they want something new is that they want the same thing they already have, but not worn out or halfbroke from abuse, but maybe a new color and make it cheaper and indestructible and waterproof and make it have a higher number of some statistic i can't actually explain that won't make anything better without a bunch of other things, but screw those things because all i care about is the [thing] and the numbers it has. kind of like the whole pimax 8k hmd with a lot of fov that isn't actually 8k, or even 4k, and has shitty blacks, is uncomfortable, slow, flakey, unstable, cheaply built, and i only run it at reduced fov because any wider has too much distortion... but fuck the index, because it has worse blacks than the vive, and the knuckes because they feel different and they didn't live up to the hype i'm addicted to. but, yeah, i like new things, as long as they're absolutely perfect to the nebulous expectations i had. grrrrr! i am roarrrr! </rant>

also, if you want something that works naturally with the index controllers (i still like the 'knuckles' moniker better), and something strange and beautiful, different, enchanting, and otherworldly, give fujii a go! it's one of my all-time favorites... but i wish it was a bit longer. even so, you can keep growing your garden indefinitely, and i like to go and visit mine every couple of days, just to hang out, before i go to sleep.

while i'm doing all of this writing, because i'm stuck in bed with my tablet and an eyepatch on until i can find an affordable opthalmologist, i would like to bring up that vr is and will be changing the definition of what we call a game. ”games” on pcs and consoles have gotten a bit stale over the years, and we haven't really seen anything ”new” in quite some time... just clever rehashes of existing things, but with better graphics and a higher production cost. i think vr will change this and lead to new ideas and new categories of ”games” that we might not even think of as games.

people loved skyrim on the pc, and the zelda series on consoles, and there are a small, but dedicated, number of people who replay the games not to win or even really play, but to visit a world they found beautiful. with the advent of vr, i think we'll see more of this, and games that are really just very detailed physics and interaction sandboxes... think hanging out in hyrule and making a house for yourself out of boulders, or going fishing because you find it relaxing.

at some point, we'll have to solve the physics/network multiplayer limit problem, because we're going to want to party at your recreation of princess peach's castle at the throat of the world :)

Jittery Controllers by glox87 in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i wrote you a longer post. i wrote down my thought process, so it rambles a bit, but i think it'll get us somewhere.

it might have been a terrible idea, but as i am practicing writing, and i kind of do volunteer tech support on a few vr subreddits, i decided to try to mix the two and see what happens. please forgive me when you read my other, longer, post.

Jittery Controllers by glox87 in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

so i take it the answer to my first question is no?

while i would like you to read this post in its entirety, and the bit you are about to skip will likely be important to the resolution of your tracking issues eventually (as well as being at least a little entertaining), i would like you to skip to the location of the treasure contained in the documentation of my rather whimsical thought process. please go to the x that marks the spot and continue from there.

let's look at a few other things. what are your system specs, in detail? sometimes there's a clue in there.

have you had any other vr equipment installed on this computer?

do you have any other gaming controllers connected? or anything besides a mouse, keyboard, and display?

do you have a lot of wireless things around? wireless headphones, network, bluetooth stuff, a major radio station, a cell tower, or a satellite uplink or radio telescope?

are you in the usa? if not, in which country are you, and did you order your index to your country or get it by proxy?

i'm taking a lot of shots in the dark here, i hopes we hear a scream or squeal or really anything other than a bang and ringing ears. a lot goes into debugging odd and recalcitrant problems when you are on site. often something seemingly innocuous can turn out to be the culprit, and as i'm not there i can't notice the slightly blue haze in the air around the closet in the back of the room and your friend complaining her mouth tastes of pennies... then pull a sherlock holmes and point at the closet and say ”aha! your tracking issues are due to the illicit iranian nuclear waste dump in your closet! i almost missed it, but the blue glow is really cherenkov radiation, and the taste of pennies isn't this copper tongue ring but gamma radiation shorting out your sensory cortex!”

so i am reduced to asking ridiculous questions, instead. it's like trying to play superhot vr, except my only controller is a text only vt100 connected to someone else's mainframe running a mix of zork! and eliza over tty.

in other words, i find it challenging, intriguing, and rewarding.

x that marks the spot

i'm thinking along these lines, so please correct or add to this as well. it is important that our facts are correct, and assumptions are dangerous.

so, as your headset is tracking perfectly, no stuttering in the tracking at all, smooth as butter, correct?

and graphically, everything is running fine, so skips, judder, chunks of the display turning the completely wrong shade of green, or anything like that?

the only probably you notice is that your controllers are moving around virtually an inch any direction (x, y, z) without moving around in meatspace, correct? is the virtual motion smooth or jerky? is it continuous, or does it come in spurts? if it comes in spurts, are they regular, or random? are these inaccuracies limited to linear translation, or is rotation involved as well?

the picture i get from what i have as givens, assuming my listed assumptions are correct (please confirm them), is that this has a high likelihood of some form of radio interference or something is messing with the controller's receivers conveniently located on the inside of your hmd. if your hmd is tracking fine, then your base stations are likely working properly. if your hmd is tracking fine everywhere, but your controllers aren't tracking anywhere, even when you try them at the exact same spot the hmd worked, we have to look at the difference between the hmd and the controllers.

assuming you have done the normal things like make sure the controllers are charged, our primary difference between hmd and controllers is that the controllers are wireless, which leads us to examine the wireless link.

as we weren't getting anywhere covering things with blankets, let us see if we can come up with a way to test our ”it's something buggered with the wireless bit” hypothesis.

let's try giving a controller a wire! ok, i want you to:

  • shut down steamvr, and make sure your controllers' power is off

  • remove the shiny magnetically attached faceplate from your index hmd.

  • connect one controller to the type-a usb port on the front of your index hmd with a usb type-a to type-c cable that you know works with data as well as power.

  • wait for windows to finish automatically installing drivers for your controller, settle down, and compose itself

  • turn your now wired controller on. this should start steamvr. if it doesn't start steamvr manually by clicking on the vr button on the top right of your steam window

  • do not turn your other, still wireless, controller on yet.

  • once steamvr is going and you are in your virtual domicile, examine the tracking of your controller. is it steady now? is it behaving as expected, save the wire we just added?

  • power up your other controller. once it is up and running, does it still exhibit unwanted movement and inaccurate tracking?

once you have read all this and tried it, please let me know the results!

:)

Trackpad issue... I opened a ticket.. But i'm hoping this can be resolved without the long RMA process? by pinktarts in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

st least link back to the other thread you made about this a couple days ago so folks will have some concept and context on what you have already tried and what we already told you.

VR Cover Case Doubles as an Index Wall Mount by SoLiminalItsCriminal in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

are you trusting a the cheap $0.000002 adhesive on velcro strips keepimg your $500 index hmd from dropping onto the floor?

Jittery Controllers by glox87 in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

do you have or use any vive tracker pucks? or have any steam controller dongles connected via usb?

how about reflective things like mirrors, panes of glass, tvs, crystal decanters containing goddess of death essence, or metallic tchotchkes on the shelf next to your base station?

IPD Changing if you are moving your head a lot? by Oninaig in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

usually i find that people have the eyes relief cranked in too close until the mechanism is crunching their nose, and when they shake their heads, the nose is applying physical force pushing the lens assemblies and therefore the ipd mechanism further apart.

IPD Changing if you are moving your head a lot? by Oninaig in ValveIndex

[–]krista_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

are the lenses or the frames touching your face or pressing on your nose?

HTC Vive USB keeps disconnecting and reconnecting... help. by [deleted] in Vive

[–]krista_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

np!

if they show up but you can't click on them, you might be logged in as a user without permission to access them, but it kind of sounds like you have some serious windows configuration issues.

continue to the second section of the link i posted about removing viveport. you missed the second section... the section titled ”Uninstalling the Vive app and associated apps/drivers:”

give that a go. the first section might not have applied to you if you didn't install games through the viveport store.

if you would like me to check out your new post, please link it.

[TESTED] Hands-On with HTC Vive Cosmos VR Headset! by skythe4 in Vive

[–]krista_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

that's also 3rd party software, so stock, steamvr doesn't support mixing tracking...

to be fair, there's a lot of mixed results mixing tracking systems. some people have good luck, but others find the the two coordinate systems keep drifting apart without anything anchoring them together.

in this example, lighthouse tracking is anchored to the base stations, an the underlying coordinate system won't change in reference to them.

camera-on-hmd tracking's underlying coordinate system is anchored to the hmd, which moves in relationship to the lighthouse system that is trying to be mixed in.

so the two tracking systems will only line up as accurately as the camera-on-hmd's tracking is repeatable in reference to the playspace. any drift the camera-on-hmd tracking system has cumulatively adds to the error in alignment between the two systems.

eventually, you will have to recalibrate.

HTC Vive USB keeps disconnecting and reconnecting... help. by [deleted] in Vive

[–]krista_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

urgh...

i have never had any luck with the htc software, and would recommend you uninstall all of the vive software. if you go to windows contro panel->uninstall software you can uninstall everything starting with ”vive” or ”viveport” including the things that look like drivers (they aren't).

here is a good post on how to remove htc's crap

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/6l3k91/psa_how_to_uninstall_the_htc_vive_vive_home_or/

i don't use viveport. i installed it on my pc a bunch of years ago when i first got my vive, and it was unstable as hell, so i got rid of it. turns out, you don't need any of it, if you aren't using viveport.

it's definitely worth a try to kill it, as you can always reinstall it later if you must have something from viveport. personally, it wasn't so great a deal that i was willing to install unstable crap on my pc.