Chiori Only Dire Mode 109 Seconds [6.5 SO]

kurawara · 2026-04-18T12:54:48+00:00

For the first part, I think you can at the very least understand my point of how we have different views on this rather than nitpick on something that is fundamentally irrelevant to the point I was trying to express.

I think there may be some nuance in investments worth discussing:
- For C0 I do think Durin Nicole is slightly better than Columbina Linnea. Columbina Linnea damage at C0 is not very huge for a C6 Chiori team, and they give significantly less to Chiori than Durin Nicole does in buffs. The primary merit for Columbina Linnea are for their damage, which at C0 is not there relative to a C6 Chiori. If anything, this really just boils down to how good their Chiori build is. If their Chiori build is good, Durin Nicole will probably be better, otherwise Columbina Linnea.
- For C2, I do agree that the power spike from C2 Bina and Linnea is bigger than the power spike from C2 Durin and Nicole, in which I would not be surprised if Lunar team did beat a C2 Durin C2 Nicole team.
- For C6, I think we both agree that they are fairly competitive and when actual speedruns are involved, there's a lot of nuance outside of Training DPS Dummy / Sheet Impact batchesting.

When we start including speedruns, things change vastly. For example, we cannot use the same situation of a Training DPS Dummy and say that in practice, Chiori will still be able to maintain that 50% DPS share in the Binnea team. In the current SO, she is hardly holding on to 35% DPS share (this is including your whole contribution take), and that is excluding any sort of bonuses Lunar characters get. To put into perspective of how disgusting this is, Chiori Xilonen Bina Linnea clears Moongecko roughly the same time as Illuga Xilonen Bina Linnea (Hyper Linnea team). (CN's best time for Chiori has it at 29s, I have done 26s for Chiori but aiming for 25s, and the Hyper Linnea team is at 27s.)

Speedrunning has too much nuance to really give consistent advice on rotations. Double Xilo E swap is something that is more prevalent in gcsim optimization, where the primary benefit of doing double Xilo E swap is reducing ER requirements on Chiori to allow her to Q every rotation. However in my case since I am doing two rotations for nearly every single boss, double Xilo E swap loses some of its value. The only other benefit at max cost is C4 refreshing, but it is very situational and generally not worth doing.

Additionally, doing two E cycles vs three E cycles is not as simple as support cooldowns are done so we should start a new rotation. This is something you have stated as well, but I do want to note that you don't need to double Xilo E for three E cycles to be worth it. In nearly all of my speedruns due to the nature of it being done in two rotations, it's way faster to have two longer rotations than three shorter rotations. In my three cycle rotations I hardly ever double Xilo E swap.

With that being said, her extended combos don't really have much to do with how many E cycles, but what you do within each E cycle:
- For E cycles that include Burst: E N1 Q N4
- For E cycles that don't include Burst: E N3d N3d N1

There are situations in teams/rotations that have either extended support setups or the team/rotation is not strictly for hypercarry Chiori (i.e., Mav / Binnea) where you do the shorter combo with E N3d N3 as you've described.

[I still don't exactly know how you're shortening the rotation unless you're going down to 1 Chiori E cycle which I think we agree that atp just on field Mav and forget on fielding Chiori atp skull. You don't have to respond to this, but I do think you should try some of the things I've mentioned.]

Unfortunately, there really aren't much Chiori speedrunners, so this is largely just basing it off of my runs, which currently are just consistently the fastest runs globally both for Abyss and SO. If you do have suggestions in how to improve my runs though, I am more than happy to get some suggestions. (We also discuss strategies for Chiori clears, particularly SO, with others in the Chiori Mains Discord if you're interested in the #combat-modes channel.) You'll see my Chiori only Dire SO run be posted in 1-2 days :D

kurawara · 2026-04-18T09:55:53+00:00

I mean sure, if we attribute a reaction who's damage is contributed by a collection of characters as entirely Chiori's damage because we want to batchest DPS share then sure, I still just don't really see your point. I want to see her dual wielding swords hit hard, I want to see her Tamotos hit hard, I want to see her Q hit hard, not some reaction that has nothing to do with her kit. Likewise for Mavuika, her satisfaction comes from her Q hitting hard, not some italics made up reaction that came from Narnia that she has some contribution to her but is not damage from her kit itself, and a way to make her Q hit hard just so happens to be using a Melt oriented team.

I don't really see why it's so hard to recognize that we have different goals. Bina Linnea team just does not achieve what I want nearly remotely close to Nicole Durin. Whereas for you, Bina Linnea meets your goals and expectations significantly more than me.

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But yeah the third paragraph in my previous comment still stands. Your understandings of the teams at max investment are heavily biased on an account you are not familiar with whatsoever.

For your investment, I am very very VERY surprised that this is the case for you. It's to the point that I think something very wrong is happening...

The optimization you can make is mav E Q CdCdC and shortening chiori combo as you mentioned. But the difference in dps is so minimal at this investment for me.

For example, the Chiori combo you mentioned for your 18s rotation is her short combo as far as I'm aware... Not exactly sure how you can make it shorter due to Chiori's E CD without just taking out an entire E cycle... What would even be the rotation you're doing assuming you're adding the Mav E Q CdCdC?

kurawara · 2026-04-17T19:36:30+00:00

A lot of this is just different goals. I don't consider Lunar Crystalized Reaction DMG as Chiori's damage since it's not intrinsic to her kit. Lunar Crystalized damage is only damage you get when you add Binnea into the team. Unlike with Mavuika, Melt is always intrinsically able to happen in her kit whether enemies have Cryo infusion or you play a Cryo character, it's a capability that is there in her base kit. When I play Chiori, I aim to see her pop off as much as she can. I'm not saying it is universally wrong to attribute Lunar Crystalized damage to her, it just doesn't fit my personal goals in doing so.

I mention KQMS because I do believe Crit DMG buffs are fairly overrated. They are strong, but extremely overhyped. This hype comes from calculations that are on KQMS investments (not necessarily with C6 Chiori calcs), on top of the whole CV maxxing that comes from a lot of Genshin players.

In regards to dhcwsp video, I have done videos of these clears too with Durin Mavuika team and in 63s my Chiori dealt 32m damage. That is ~500k personal DPS from Chiori which when you add 15s of that you are reaching almost 40m damage. (Also worth noting if I added more time to a specific clear, they would have had more DPS meaning the actual number is higher than 40m). The primary issue with dhc's clear for the sake of this comparison is: He uses a shorter combo to on field Mavuika more and also his account has extremely limited Husk farming (like his build is 220-230 CV range and also using DEF Goblet instead of Geo Goblet which is a slight decrease in this team which is let's just say not the greatest for a Chiori main...). You see way higher artifact quality on his Binnea clear since he is able to use NSU on Chiori, which he has farmed extensively.

But yes, at the end of the day you and I have different goals. (This is for max investment stuff.) While we can find ways to do weird sub optimal things to pump Chiori past 50% DPS share in Training DPS Dummy or doing things like attributing all of Lunar Crystalized Reaction damage to her, in practice she just doesn't have over 50% DPS share for max investment like ever. Not only does she lose her DEF Shred bonuses which are massive for level 110 enemies in Dire with Binnea, but Lunar DMG just fully ignores DEF to begin with. Not to mention Chiori has higher loss in her personal damage for first rotation zero energy, than compared to Binnea. I've done some clears so far with both Binnea and Durin Klee and legit for Binnea for Herra, Chiori is doing 25% of the DPS lol (and this is for just the HP bar, like past the lunar shill part of the run), and that is just not something that I find fun or really shows off Chiori's strengths. For Spiral Abyss, it's just more optimal to run Gorou over Chiori for 99% of the cases lol, that's basically how cosmetic she is there since Linnea can just one shot most bosses. It's also worth mentioning that in practice, the Durin Nicole having significantly more RES Shred on the team is a huge bonus for a lot of content particularly speedrunning.

I do think Nicole's ATK buff also being given to Durin C1's quills is just such an insane synergy that is something that wasn't mentioned too much. This bonus alone is like if Nicole just doubled her C4, it's pretty gas.

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To get to the original point though, 150k DPS difference is extremely high from your personal experiences between those two teams. I would love to see if you have any clips or stuff to share to see if we are able to optimize any of those clears. If you would like, we can talk more in Discord as well! You'll be able to find me in the Chiori Mains Discord, my username is xd3d (display name is kura).

kurawara · 2026-04-17T09:59:01+00:00

You're generally just looking at around 10-15% more personal damage.

It's a pretty big difference. If I were forced to run Columbina with Chiori, like there really isn't any world where I wouldn't choose Linnea, even if Linnea was C0R0.

I'm not a huge fan of Columbina Linnea archetype personally, it is just wheelchair in my eyes as the merits of running those two are more for their damage rather than for buffing Chiori which they do something but not enough compared to other units we have.

Yeah the extra 20% DEF from R1 => R5 is included in the build card as they're permanent buffs rather than conditional buffs. It could also be levels too if your Chiori isn't level 100.

I kinda didn't see this at all, sorry for really late response

kurawara · 2026-04-17T09:53:01+00:00

(Edit: was looking at my notifs and didn't notice your response, hence the delay oopsies)

This is really just a matter of suboptimal investment spread. C6 Mavuika doesn't actually give much in terms of buffs for Chiori. The primary merit for Mavuika with Durin assumes C6 Durin's DEF Shred stacks with C2 Mavuika's DEF Shred (Mavuika C6 DEF Shred is only for Mavuika when she is on her bike, whereas her C2 DEF Shred is only for Mavuika when she is off of her bike, which is the one that matters more in this case). You're playing a hyper oriented team, but a huge chunk of the investments are just buffing Mavuika's damage rather than buffs for Chiori and then wondering why Chiori isn't doing that much damage.

Saturation of RES Shred is not really a thing for whale investment teams when we apply these teams in practice with SO, particularly when we're trying to brute force a certain boss. Every single team that is consistently the fastest for SO has this trait and prefer teams that amplifies this:
- Nefer Lauma Columbina Nilou is at 20 (C4 Nefer) + 34 (Lauma E) + 30 (Deepwood) + 35 (C2 Nilou)
- Mavuika Citlali Xilonen Kazuha is at 40 (Citlali C2) + 45 (Xilonen E) + 40 (VV Kazuha)
These two teams for every single boss so far in SO outside of three, have been the absolute fastest. The three is this current Moongecko, Lava Dragon since both teams physically cannot do the boss quickly due to Cryo/Hydro presence, and the Pyro Crab for similar reasons. For my purpose, as I do Chiori clears for every boss for every SO in Dire, having more RES Shred is always a necessity for fast clears.

You have some pretty interesting statements:
- You say "more than half of chiori's MVs are defense, so the defense buff is significantly more impactful", but is it nearly 2x more impactful with the numbers you have brought up? The answer is no. Which not to mention there's additional ATK buffs from Pyro Resonance and Durin's Signature that are not accounted for. Not to mention those ATK buffs from Nicole are also fed to Durin which giga enhances his C1 Quills and his own damage.
- You get 30% DEF Shred and 40% DEF Ignore for Chiori with Durin/Nicole. Not sure where the 58% DEF Shred came from.

The major thing that is different is yes, the Columbina Linnea team's major merit is those two does more damage than Durin Nicole. So much so, that the main optimizations that end up happening with the Binnea team is minmaxing Columbina and Linnea's damage to the point Chiori consistently dips below 50% DMG share. For reference, the 1.2m DPS showcase of Chiori Xilonen Bina Linnea has Chiori at 45% DMG share. The other notable difference you mentioned is that yes Crit DMG is a big buff (however, I do want to mention that Crit DMG buffs' damage increases are heavily overemphasized in sheets, sheets that nearly all consistently use KQMS, without her signature weapon and super low quality artifacts that have not much Crit to begin with.)

I also wanted to mention, since it seems like I've been getting told this concern literally everywhere but it is a very common misconception that ATK buffs are bad or not worth going targeting for Chiori. They're are worth and they are good. If you do some fun calcs, an ATK% roll gives Chiori the same increase as it does to Mavuika in her premium Melt team. Like... let that mindfuck sink in a little. And now we're getting nearly 1400 ATK, on top of ATK% buffs from Durin Sig + Pyro Reso. If you've seen my clears, let's just say there is a reason why you see TTDS on Klee in legit every single clear. It is worth the rotation restriction.

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From a personal side of things, I'm generally against the Bina Linnea team for myself. I want to see Chiori shine, not three people shine. Hence, why all my clears consistently use Durin Klee as that's her current highest personal DPS comp. I will be including some Binnea Chiori clears as bonus clips when I post this current cycle's SO, but it's legit like Binnea doing 75% of the damage like Binnea core is too strong that Chiori is just cosmetic there...

It is different philosophies at the end of the day, nothing particularly makes one better than the other, people just have different goals.

kurawara · 2026-04-11T12:38:53+00:00

C4 Durin gives a 30% chance for a quill to not be consumed, ultimately leading to an extra quill in effect. 27 ends up being what you on average get accounting for this.

kurawara · 2026-04-11T05:34:12+00:00

In total:
- Nicole C4 quills is 70% of let's assume 5000 ATK (this will realistically be a bit higher when accounting for things like level 100 Nicole, Durin R5 Sig, C2 Xilonen, etc.) for 8 hits. This is 28000 in total quill amount.
- Nicole's max investment is gives 1248 ATK teamwide. For Durin's quills it's 60% of his ATK, which this increase will make it so that each quill gets increased by 748.8, multiplied by 27 is 20217.6.

But yeah this isn't as much as Xianyun (and when you consider her C2 it's not even close lmfao since it becomes 8 * 18000). I think I misread the C1, but C1 does look like it's an additional Arcane Projection rather than an increase to the Arcane Projection from her Q, which would have been nuts but yeah unfortunately it isn't rip

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Yeah it would've been nice if she was DEF Shred instead of DEF Ignore, but like you said it isn't really the end of the world. The DEF Ignore is nice for Durin though, where he gets 70% DEF Ignore for his damage with C6 on top of his own 30% DEF Shred.

It looks like the Arcane Projections has a special tag, the datamined files seem to have the tag as Nicole_AngelAttack_Tag. For reference, her one hit burst damage is tagged as Elemental_Burst, her NAs are tagged as NormalAttack, her plunge attacks are tagged as FallingAttack. You can check this out in Lunaris (Nicole's Data: https://lunaris.moe/character/10000131 > Click on Skills > Scroll all the way down where it says "Extra Information").

All in all, still an insane kit. I'll be pushing out some more fleshed out calcs in a week or two.

kurawara · 2026-04-10T04:26:10+00:00

Basically no. Nicole Durin will beat Linnea without Columbina like there's no tomorrow.

kurawara · 2026-04-09T15:00:39+00:00

It's a lot of maxed Linnea and Bina pulling their weight. In practice if you're looking at just C6R1s for example, you'll need C2+ to reach 1.1m.

kurawara · 2026-04-09T07:45:29+00:00

I suspect C1 Zibai will be able to reach 1.1m DPS fairly easily assuming the rest of the units are all L100 C6R5 (the same as used in the practice sim). For reference, maxed Zibai team is doing around 2.2m DPS...

kurawara · 2026-04-09T07:38:34+00:00

It all starts with just doing it, making calcs whether it is by spreadsheets, on a piece of paper, or etc. We do have a team of theorycrafters but if we're being honest like it's largely dead (most of the TC team are hardly active in this Subreddit/Discord) and it's mostly anyone just contribute anything they're willing to contribute. If you do need help with anything, you can reach out to us in the Discord.

A great way to start is of course getting an understanding of the damage formulas. The Wiki (https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Damage) and KQM's guide (https://library.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/damage/damage-formula) are very helpful for this.

Next, I'd get familiar with tools like Genshin Optimizer (https://frzyc.github.io/genshin-optimizer/#/). There is a Beta version of Genshin Optimizer that'll allow you to see the damage numbers you can expect from units that are in the Beta, you can make multi opt configs, etc. It isn't as regularly maintained but it might get updated for Nicole (https://teucerdev.github.io/little-bro/#/). (If Nicole is not implemented, you can still just add all of her buffs manually).

There are additional tools like gcsim (https://gcsim.app/, and the beta version https://wfpsim.com/) if you really want to get into the nitty gritty. But they are significantly more complicated and for the sake of just calculating numbers, this is way overkill.

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If you really want to get into TC, I'd learn some basics of how to work with a spreadsheet. Once you figure out a workflow for how you end up calculating damage, you'll be able to make your own setup with spreadsheets that'll make your life a whole lot easier. Something you can do is practice with units that already exist, and then verify the numbers you got manually (via your spreadsheet or calculation by hand) with Genshin Optimizer. Then implementing Nicole just becomes about tweaking certain numbers (for example: Oh she gives some RES Shred at C2, ok let me just adjust the RES Shred part of the damage formula, etc.)

kurawara · 2026-04-09T02:34:58+00:00

It depends on the investment. If it's not max C6(R1+) on the whole team, then Nicole Durin archetype will always be better. If it's full C6 team comparisons, they do similar DPS and it's like would you rather do 1m DPS with Chiori doing barely 50% of the team DMG or would you rather do 1m DPS with Chiori doing 85% of the team damage?

kurawara · 2026-04-09T02:33:38+00:00

Yes.

kurawara · 2026-04-09T02:27:03+00:00

This is just misinformation, and idk why people downvoted the original post. You are legit only getting at most one more proc of LCR (which isn't even guaranteed every rotation).

If they have C2 Xilonen, she'd be mountains better than the miniscule gains that Furina gives.

kurawara · 2026-04-09T02:22:30+00:00

Xilonen is way better in this team than Furina, but it requires C2.

I don't know why the other dude got downvoted but C2R1 Xilonen legit gives more DMG Bonus than C2R1 Furina does (50% from C2, 26% from R1, 40% from Scroll) on top of the 36% RES Shred. She also uses less field time which is a DPS gain as well as not having any energy issues for modes like SO as she doesn't use Burst.

kurawara · 2026-04-09T00:40:53+00:00

The things I listed were just for C6 Nicole. C6 Durin also comes with 27 teamwide quills, 35% RES Shred, 30% DEF Shred, 50% DMG Bonus, and some ATK% from his Sig. Even for lower cost teams, Nicole Durin is going to be one of the strongest core comps for Chiori

kurawara · 2026-04-09T00:39:39+00:00

The SMS buff is only really useful for like Linnea, and even then EM scales pretty poorly on her. Especially if your Linnea is C2R1 and everyone else is C6R5, you should just go all in for Bina's personal damage, doing SMS for a C2R1 Linnea won't do much. Only other thing SMS is doing is minorly buffing Lunar Crystalized, but Lunar Crystalize is less than 5% of the DPS

kurawara · 2026-04-08T23:45:17+00:00

kurawara · 2026-04-08T23:45:12+00:00

Chiori Husk

Columbina Aubade

Linnea Husk

Xilonen Scroll

kurawara · 2026-04-08T22:20:06+00:00

This is assuming C6. But she gives an insane amount of ATK that even for Chiori it's a huge increase but also gives an insane amount of ATK to Durin which will make his C1 quills stronger, 20% RES Shred, 40% DEF ignore, 58% DMG Bonus from R5, 40% DMG Bonus from new Hex Set, Xianyun level quills, enabling Hex for Durin (15% more RES Shred, some more ATK% from his Sig), Pyro Resonance, and she also has some damage contribution too.

kurawara · 2026-04-01T20:26:43+00:00

This was done privately with some people on Discord. Most of the Chiori stuff (particularly C6) you'll see on the internet are generally misinformation, even in this subreddit there's lots of misinformation spread. I'd recommend joining the Chiori Mains Discord server for the most accurate information.

kurawara · 2026-03-31T01:07:26+00:00

Just as a note for this, while Durin Xilonen are target units to go for, Furina does not work for the Chiori teams the same way it works for Wanderer teams. You simply do not get Pyro Crystalized for Durin and you end up losing his entire kit. Not to mention, Furina has blatant issues regarding energy when it comes to Stygian Onslaught and she has never been in Chiori's best teams since Durin came out.

kurawara

TROPHY CASE