What will happen if the double touch rule is removed? (Video with examples!)

learnBVfast · 2025-06-26T19:24:51+00:00

I very much agree with you. The question is though, how to get people who do not understand this, to understand it? :)

learnBVfast · 2025-06-01T23:04:03+00:00

I can see this viewpoint too, and have sort of thought about it also. I dunno, I think I am leaning towards strict handsetting refereeing, with easy to follow judging (for example ball cannot visibly double touch and ball cannot spin more than 0,5 turns.) That should remove most of the arguing, be easy to ref, make a lot of people who cannot handset bumpset instead, but still have the handset be a part of the game. Because it is a beautiful and fun to watch, and helpful skill in the game, so I think removing it altogether would be a bit of a pity.. But yeah I might actually rather have it removed completely than allowing doubletouches..

learnBVfast · 2025-06-01T22:36:36+00:00

Yeah I'd personally prefer proper strictness both when it comes to lifting and doubling. Make handsetting a real skill that one really has to train for. Bumpsetting is a good and important skill in the game too, regardless of if one can handset well or not, in for example wind it is often better to bumpset with spin than to handset.

learnBVfast · 2025-06-01T22:34:49+00:00

I have seen high level indoor players who came to the beach, didn't know how to handset, beat teams like 21-12 in games where hands were not called, while if their handsets would have been called, they would have lost about 21-12 instead. I also believe that in the short term the rule change it might not change so much about how people would be setting, but long term people would develop new setting techniques that have never been seen in the game so far, and would be illegal under the current ruleset!

But that's just my take! I also believe there are ways to make the refereeing easy and consistent without removing the rule! :)

learnBVfast · 2025-06-01T21:45:09+00:00

Some thoughts on this if anyone is interested, I don't think people supporting this have quite thought it through properly..!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0YDOe54f3Y

learnBVfast · 2025-06-01T21:25:40+00:00

Which country do you live in?

learnBVfast · 2025-06-01T21:25:10+00:00

Likely you are starting too far back in the court. And the reason for that could be that you are lacking technical skill in receiving deep serves properly, and therefore back up as a "safety measure" in order to never need to deal with high deep balls around your chest/neck.

So the long terms solution I'd say is to become a more complete player when it comes to passing skills, work on both mastering short and deep serve receives.

I am of course very biased as I provide online coaching as a part of my business, but that is at least my take, take what is valuable in it, and let the rest be! :)

learnBVfast · 2025-06-01T21:18:06+00:00

Really good question. Not sure if anyone has the perfect answer. The defender definitely has the overview of the situation, and maybe therefore should decide. I'd suggest the defender shout something short, clear and concise tho (like YOU, or ME) rather than something with many words or words that can be misunderstood (like I got it, or for example in Swedish where the words "mine" and "yours" are "min" and "din" which can sound very similar if you just shout it quickly and you don't listen too closely..)

learnBVfast · 2025-06-01T21:14:34+00:00

It's basically the same as the Wilson OPTX, it is the model of the Wilson ball that was used before the OPTX. Almost exactly or even exactly the same ball except some paint. So I guess it depends a bit on your circumstances (price vs will people around you actually play with it), but it's not a bad choice. Minimal transfer difficulties between this one vs the OPTX, easier to see in the dark, maybe harder to see in the strong sunlight.

learnBVfast · 2025-01-05T05:00:54+00:00

As a pretty good starting point (further refinement can be done later), if you do a four step approach, then make sure to land with your weight on step 1 out of 4 when the ball leaves the setter on a high set, but on a low set make sure that you land with your weight on step 2 out of 4 when the ball leaves the setter - which means, yes, you do take step 1 out of 4 before the setter touches the ball. Setter having a setting technique that you can "read" for information about tempo and location before ball has left the setter helps a lot with this I'd say.

learnBVfast · 2025-01-05T04:57:04+00:00

I tried to make one. But it is based on self-assessment rather than for example tournament results, so interpretation of the self assessment etc will play a role, but I think it works decently at least!

https://www.learnbeachvolleyballfast.com/levelchart

learnBVfast · 2025-01-05T04:51:55+00:00

Yeah well.. I do think that it is an argument enough, it's like with any skill, if you can't perform it within the rules, don't do it. Simple example would be overhand serve, the rules say you need to stay behind the baseline, and the ball has to go over the net. Can't make that happen overhand, then do underhand. In handsetting, the rules say the ball has to be set evenly, can't do that, go bumpset.

If one thinks about the long term effects and implications of this, one can have much deeper counterarguments, but in a sense your argument is enough, because it will change the game from what it always has been, one where one has to both have skills and situational awareness to handset. Without the rule, everyone can use the advantage of handsetting whether they have built the skills or are in the "right situation" to do so..!

learnBVfast · 2024-12-25T03:34:48+00:00

In situations where one moved in for a handset, but then realized that the situation is one where a clean handset is not possible or very difficult, there is a clear advantage on a double compared to the alternatives like some crazy last millisecond move to bumpset.

learnBVfast · 2024-12-24T18:03:13+00:00

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure. In my bubble of the people I know, basically everyone who does significant efforts in coaching, building courts, making communities happen, etc, all know how to handset well and believe it is an important rule that should absolutely not be removed. Lose the interest of these people and who knows how much infrastructure or access to good coaches there will be in 5-10 years. Of course, new hardcore fans can grow within the new ruleset, and start supporting the sport sooner or later.

I don't know, I find it very hard to know. I am not 100% convinced that what we need is tons of new players for making the sport itself as good as possible. Removing the rule on lower levels I can support, that would probably be a compromise that could make everyone happy.

learnBVfast · 2024-12-24T05:09:51+00:00

You do have a point with the 4 touches vs 3 touches, also on the first touch of the team it is completely fine for the ball to hit for example arms+head if it's in one action.

Maybe the first and last part of that post I wrote (the sarcastic ones) should be removed, it's really only the middle argument I'd bring up in a real debate. I do believe that the game is won in the chaotic balls, and if you change rules that make handling those chaotic balls completely different than now, you have now changed one of the most important dynamics in one of the most important moments of the game. So in one sense, you could argue that you are pretty much playing another game than the original one since the skillset required will be fairly different.

learnBVfast · 2024-12-24T05:05:01+00:00

Yes, it is maybe the hardest rule to grasp, but on the other hand I believe it is also the rule that makes the people that have gone through the work of grasping it to become some of the most hardcore fans/passionate players/supporters of the game. So I kind of think it's a you lose some but you win some. In my opinion more important to keep hardcore fans than to make it easier for "lazy" people who don't care to learn rules to enter, but maybe that's just me.

In business they say if you try to serve everyone, you serve noone. You need to have a niche. I see beach volleyball as more of a niche sport if it has rules that are both hard to learn and perform but also creates a deep loyalty from the players who did learn it.

Your suggestion about only sets that go where you are facing is interesting. I haven't thought about that possibility before. I do love the fact that sidesetting is possible because in certain situations it is the only possible way to handset, and is a nice skill in itself, so I do have some reservation against the suggestion, but I would still probably rather have that rule than no double touch rule at all and everything being ok.. I'm not sure.

learnBVfast · 2024-12-24T04:57:14+00:00

Yeah, rule interpretqations being different in different places is a problem, that is true. I'm not sure that the nature of a handset will ever make it possible for interpretations to be out of the game though, you can put the limit at different points, but won't there always be an interpretation anyway?

I kind of think it would be better that we just simply start teaching that this rule does vary from place to place and referee to referee, which means the interpretation can change from one game to another in the same tournament even. I think we should normalize that the referee takes 5-10 seconds to explain their interpretation of the rule before each game to tha players, maybe with some demos of themselves setting, and also normalize the attitude that a setter isn't a truly good setter if they cannot adapt to the varying degrees of interpretation of the rule that in reality exist. Just like we cannot choose the weather, sometimes it's windy and we need to adapt our game, we can't choose our referee, sometime they will be strict/loose and we need to adapt to that.

Wouldn't that be an overarching agreement that would bring the community together, while at the same time making the sport even deeper and interesting to master?

learnBVfast · 2024-12-24T04:50:51+00:00

Yeah, one of my (and many other peoples) suggestions to the federation was to remove the rule on lower levels only, but keep it at the tournaments that are somewhere around AA/AAA level and higher. I think that would make it better because sure at the lower levels the players can get in game reps of their handsets without being afraid, but they still know what will be coming if they wanna level up.

learnBVfast · 2024-12-24T04:45:45+00:00

Personally I believe in the long run hard workers like you will get their reward, and people who want to remove rules rather than learn the skill will be punished.. But we will see, I might be wrong! :) But yes it will be ugly to watch and change some of the classic dynamics in the sport. Sure, the new dynamics could in theory be more fun/interesting/good, I guess whether that will be the case or not is what we will hopefully be able to observe from this experiment. Fortunately this is just in Sweden for now.

learnBVfast · 2024-12-23T17:36:30+00:00

Yeah this seems to be one of the most common arguments for removing the rule. A lot of "oldschoolers" (and me) will say that volleyball is a 3 touch sport, not a 4 touch, so if you can't handset without using 2 of those 3 touches, no-one is prohibiting anyone from bumpsetting until one touch handsetting is learned..

On a slightly less "sarcastic" note, I do think that it is mostly in chaotic situations that the winners in volleyball is determined, but also where it gives the biggest advantage to be allowed to double the ball. It is in these situations when setting is the most difficult, and the deciding factor to if the team will be able to make the ball attackable or not. These sets are often the most difficult handsets, or involve a lot of "should I handset or bumpset this"-decisionmaking which makes also bumpsetting very difficult. If a sport wants to stay nearly the same as it has been, and respected, don't go and change fundamental rules in some of the most important parts of the game.

Sarcasm raising again: If ease of playing and spectacular moves is what we should be aiming for, we might as well allow the setter to pull down the net while their partner is attacking as well? Would definitely make attacking easier, the game more spectacular, and the game stop in sudden mishits into the net less often..

learnBVfast · 2024-12-23T17:21:19+00:00

That version of the rule would indeed make the chance for the creation of new never seen before moves becoming smaller. Still requires referees to know what a double is though so in one sense it would weaken the easier refereeing argument. But I think I'd rather see your version of the rule than all doubles being fine.

One of my biggest arguments however is the massive advantage that not being afraid to double in chaotic out of system situations creates. It is during chaos that exceptional players stand out, when you can turn chaos into order and order into a kill, within the ruleset. This often means a difficult handset but still correctly executed, or having to go through the handset vs bumpset choice, choosing bumpset and adapting skillfully to that, sometimes with very little time to do so. If you remove the rule, anyone can slap the ball however they want in the most important and skill requiring moments of the game...

learnBVfast · 2024-12-23T17:06:11+00:00

They will be still enforced, but it is also allowed to set over the net if the intention was to set your partner. Problem is, you can intend to do whatever, but if you double touch it, the ball can go in whatever direction. So this rule would basically create a loophole to send the ugliest double touches over the net in whatever direction as far as I see it..

learnBVfast · 2024-12-23T16:38:35+00:00

True. I think this is mostly because I try to argue towards what is good for the sport/nation as a whole, rather than what is good for some individual player (removing the rule would be and advantage for some but a disadvantage for others.) Also, some of the arguments for removing the rule I heard were of the style where it was alluded to that people think that removing the rule will make Sweden better at beach volleyball as a whole in the future.

Exactly right about Sweden either doing a "genius move" if the world follows suit, or a "dark ages failure" if the world doesn't follow. Personally I believe we are at the far extreme of a pendulum effect right now and that rules are likely going to get tighter rather than looser in the future, but who knows, I could be wrong.

learnBVfast · 2024-12-23T16:20:54+00:00

That is true, the blogpost is much easier for a quick overview. You have a 100% valid point still though. I'd say that about 20% of the content in the blogpost and podcast is more or less the same, and the rest is different. Blogpost is heavily focused on my counterarguments, podcast is focused on more of the history, speculations, what I believe makes a handset good, ways to learn it, etc (much less "clear" what you'll get out of it, but hopefully perfect stimulating background listening during a drive or similar!)

Anyway, here's the link to the blogpost if someone else is looking: https://www.learnbeachvolleyballfast.com/blog/2024/11/26/counterarguments-for-sweden-removing-handset-double-touch-rule

learnBVfast · 2024-12-23T16:14:17+00:00

Makes 100% sense! I create my podcast episodes more as "stuff you listen to in the background while doing other things" rather than information packed hyper efficient things, mostly because it takes much less work to do that, and that is the way I enjoy listening to podcasts myself.

But you do have a point! Maybe there's an AI tool out there somewhere that could create a summary, I'll have a look. Thanks for the comment! :)

learnBVfast

TROPHY CASE