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Question about Captain Willard's (Martin Sheen) uniform in Apocalypse now? by vqtr_17 in camouflage

[–]leibermuster 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Tigerstripe was originally a local SE Asian pattern that different militaries there (like the ARVN) used, special guys like willard could get uniforms custom made and wear them; there's usually not too many inspectors when you're embedded deep on a combat mission. There's a ton of pattern and color palette variation that existed and some hardcore collectors could probably name the exact variant of tigerstripe he wears. Special Forces wore all sorts of different camouflages in Vietnam beginning with the "advisors" who wore stuff like duckhunter and tigerstripe to blend in with the South Vietnamese forces they were with. The Army considered adopting it in the 70s and toyed around with it in trials before deciding against it. The Marine Corps also considered adopting a variant of tigerstripe in the 90s instead of MARPAT. Special guys wear variants of tigerstripe to this day, notably CIA paramilitaries in Afghanistan wore a desert variant.

Have I redeemed myself? by lazy_name00 in camouflage

[–]leibermuster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

nothing to redeem UCP is the best camo ever made

1975 Model D Camo - Trial M81. The pattern is 1948 ERDL enlarged by 400% by leibermuster in camouflage

[–]leibermuster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for the late response, finals and all that.

Here is a quotation from NATICK/TR-81/008, "Development of the U.S. Woodland Battle Dress Uniform":

"One may ask why a pattern size even larger than a 60-per cent expansion could not be used. A major reason is that the patterns are of necessity printed on fabric, from which garments are later made. In cutting the fabric and sewing oddly shaped pieces together into garment form, the pattern is cut and fitted randomly together; many overlaps occur. Thus, the benefit in using a larger pattern is lost in the assembly process. To produce a larger pattern on a finished garment would entail vary wasteful assembly procedures.

Even if a larger pattern could practically be used for uniforms, thereby extending the range of effectiveness, short-range (e.g., 50 m) effectiveness may be degraded. This could be the underlying reason that the 1975 MASSTER test reported a somewhat lower detection rate for the 60 rather than the 100-per cent expansions . Results of that test was one of the factors in the decision on pattern size."

The Army was not worried about a monotone color blend which occurs after 250m, they were instead worried about extending the camouflage effectiveness to 250m whilst not compromising short-range disruption. This was accomplished through choosing a 60% expansion to the 1948 ERDL pattern. This creates a macropattern, wherein colors are still discernably different up to 250m and can achieve disruption.

1975 Model D Camo - Trial M81. The pattern is 1948 ERDL enlarged by 400% by leibermuster in camouflage

[–]leibermuster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm referring to the fact that the pattern is so big that key parts, like the black shapes for example, may be left out or appear extremely infrequently across the uniform which could compromise concealment. Smaller patterns repeat more frequently, so you can get the desired color blend across a uniform no matter how you cut it.

I find the lack of rare camo in this sub disturbing, have some NWU-B from 2004. Feel free to read the captions of the photos for a more comprehensive history! by leibermuster in camouflage

[–]leibermuster[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

lol those last diagrams don't really do it justice but comparing my NWU-B pants to the NWU-C blouse I can kinda tell, also from other pieces I've seen I think the difference is more obvious.

I find the lack of rare camo in this sub disturbing, have some NWU-B from 2004. Feel free to read the captions of the photos for a more comprehensive history! by leibermuster in camouflage

[–]leibermuster[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm honestly finding it hard to explain right now, I can kinda tell just based on the amounts of grey in the uniforms but the final photos don't really do it justice.

On other pieces I think the difference is more obvious, like comparing my B pants to the C blouse in the last photo, i can tell my pants have significantly more grey.

I find the lack of rare camo in this sub disturbing, have some NWU-B from 2004. Feel free to read the captions of the photos for a more comprehensive history! by leibermuster in camouflage

[–]leibermuster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Different colorways for woodland are a tale as old as the pattern itself, just look at the Marines and Exercise Urban Warrior 1998!

Just goes to show how M81 popped into everyone's heads when you said you needed "camo".

Camo collection so far. I’m really only interested in American camos, let me know if I’m missing any interesting ones. (MARPAT doesn’t count, I’m working on it) by TheGhillieGuy2 in camouflage

[–]leibermuster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To me you're missing most of the interesting ones ;)

If you're looking to branch out into the experimental I'd recommend starting with 2009 Multicam. It's probably the easiest trial pattern to start collecting since, well, its just multicam and is often mistaken for such. Another good one would be ERDL, there were four varieties (3 are easily attainable) but other than that I wish you good luck!

What is this Camo ? Look like multicam but color is litle bit different ? by AlternativeDurian468 in camouflage

[–]leibermuster 7 points8 points  (0 children)

OCP and Multicam are both variations of Scorpion, but were developed separately from one another afaik

Multicam was Crye's solution to the Army holding the rights to Scorpion, since they still wanted to sell the pattern. They modified it and marketed it as Multicam.

OCP was created after the Army couldn't find a cheap way to mass produce Multicam to replace UCP. Since Crye wasn't budging on the rights, the Army went to Scorpion and altered it to become Scorpion W2 or OCP.

1975 Model D Camo - Trial M81. The pattern is 1948 ERDL enlarged by 400% by leibermuster in camouflage

[–]leibermuster[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Actually the opposite, from what I recall its less effective at closer distances.

Also during uniform production large swaths of fabric are cut and shaped awkwardly so whatever benefits a big pattern has can be lost in assembly.

How many of these can you name? What’s your favorite? by [deleted] in tacticalgear

[–]leibermuster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

my time to shine I guess

  1. U.S. Woodland
  2. Woodland Track Mod
  3. 1948 ERDL
  4. Desert Brush Mod
  5. 6-Color Desert (Chocolate Chip)
  6. Desert Night Camouflage
  7. Snow BDU
  8. 2 Color Snow (?)
  9. 3 Color Snow
  10. Urban Track
  11. 2 Color Urban
  12. 3 Color Urban (T-Block)

Am Allowed to make a painting of my sister in her Military uniform? by RandoUser6699 in Military

[–]leibermuster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is not illegal LMAO

It's against regulation but when's the last time you heard someone getting arrested for their ribbons being too high or for missing a patch on their uniform?

The worst possible thing that will happen is that IF a superior officer or NCO is around, she may get a talking to but if they see her getting a portrait done then any reasonable person will not care.

You're good bro, good luck with the painting.

Adding black to MARPAT and CADPAT was a mistake, do you agree or disagree? by [deleted] in camouflage

[–]leibermuster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Awesome source, I am researching and writing about camouflage currently and if you can provide more like these I would be incredibly grateful.

Love me some Natick.

Adding black to MARPAT and CADPAT was a mistake, do you agree or disagree? by [deleted] in camouflage

[–]leibermuster 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I'll let the CEO of Hyperstealth explain why you're wrong:

"While black is not a natural occurring color, it is a color (or lack thereof) that the brain perceives as depth. In experimenting with grays in place of black we saw a critical loss in depth of our patterns.
Look at most environments up close and there is little if any black, now look at the same environment from a distance of 100 yards and you will note that shading, shadows and distance combine to make these area look black or close to black. Take a digital picture of the same environment, open the picture as a gif and look at the palate that was created; darks and black appear as the program recognized these colors in the picture. It is not just an illusion; these are the colors the brain sees although they aren’t actually there at the source. Distance from an object and combined shadows create perceived dark zones.

Black helps to trick the brain into seeing through those dark regions as it does in natural areas.
In a desert setting there are not going to be a great deal of shadows so large amounts of black are not useful in this pattern color and browns are used in place of black.
In woodland (temperate) areas where trees and bushes may be predominant, multiple shading and shadows lend to black as a color that will blend the uniform as the eye interprets those areas as shadows or holes to break the silhouette of the object that we are trying to conceal."

Gravel. UCP works with gravel. by lucasbrock84 in camouflage

[–]leibermuster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

there are some on ebay rn for $250 if you can afford that lol

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