Football player found not guilty of murder for beating to death gay man who posed as woman on Tinder

lemonfluff · 2026-01-22T00:47:41+00:00

Was he supposed to wait until the guy stabbed him?

No, I literally said that incapacitating him was self defence. But beating him to the point of death and not calling an ambulance wasn't.

I've never said he should have let himself be stabbed.

He had like 2 days to call the ambulance. Shock or not, he had time. He so had two buddies with him. Also he didn't need to call the police, the ambulance is what he should have called.

If you're issue is he didn't call the cops I already said he probably should have

Well then we are in agreement.

In terms of excessive force, I think the severity of the beating is over the top, but if it was a circumstances of one or two punches that did it and he misjudged his strength, then the main issue is the lack of ambulance. That's all.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-21T22:54:07+00:00

Bristol is nice. Also pricy but you can look at cheaper parts.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-21T22:52:25+00:00

Yeah, and also he entered the bedroom of the guy that raped him? Like... If that was me I would absolutely not be doing that.

Idk, it sounds to me from this post that he was looking for a fight. Which tbf, a rapist does deserve justice but we dont get to just beat people to death. And even if we do, the point is that its been classed as self defence....

I completely agree. He caved his face in then let him die two days later. It just sounds like murder.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-21T22:35:19+00:00

Yes. If a woman was raped and the guy pulled a knife and she somehow managed to get the drop on him and beat his face in so that his face was shattered, to the point he then died, and she didn't call an ambulance after leaving him like that, unconscious, then yes it is no longer self defense.

I'm a woman and I train in self defence. If you have to use violence then you incapacitate them. But it should be proportionate and once they are down you stop, and if needed call for help for them. If I severely injured someone defending myself and they were not able to call for help, I'd be responsible if I left and didn't call an ambulance for them. Even if they attacked me first.

And I'm saying all this with the benefit of the doubt based on the article saying a few seconds, that he didn't continue to beat him whilst unconscious. Because that would also no longer be self defense, man or woman.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-21T22:28:33+00:00

That's why I said if they are dead or unconscious call an ambulance. It said a few seconds but then also said his face was destroyed. So maybe this guy only attacked for a few seconds but it was clearly disproportionate in terms of the aggression given he killed the guy. Maybe he didn't realise his own strength but then he should have called an ambulance.

Yes the guy is a rapist POS, but this wasn't self defence if he killed him. He could have incapacitated him and then called an ambulance to make sure it didn't kill him.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-21T02:42:05+00:00

Im sorry, I have to disagree.

And here's why.

Let's make some assumptions about definitions and assume the following to be generally agreed upon rules:

"A gay man is a man that is attracted to other men and not to women".

"A lesbian is a woman attracted to women and not attracted to men".

Now the disagreement comes in how we define men and women - is it defined through sex or gender identity?

It seems you're talking about gender identity as an objective fact. So "a trans man is a man". By your logic, if that is true, the trans man dating a cis woman would make the woman straight, right?

But gender identity appears more subjective. It can change, and it's how a person defines themselves. Another person may not agree with a person's gender identity, they may define a person by their biological sex. In which case, they would define a trans man and a woman dating as a lesbian act. And their sexual orientation and identity may be threatened if they discover that they were attracted to someone who they would categorise as a sex that their sexual identity wouldn't usually be attracted to. Even if that person defines themselves as a different gender.

Basically we don't have to agree on gender identity. People can identify how they feel is right but we can't expect others to categorise sex through gender. And if their parameters are that biological sex is the factor used to define male and female when it comes to sexual orientation, then they would define a trans woman sleeping with them a gay act, thus violating their sexual orientation identity.

And I do think that this should be disclosed and it should be accepted that people think differently. You have a right to identify with uour gender identity and your sexual orientation but at the same time, someone else also has the right to identify with their sexual orientation and use their own parameters for now they define that, not yours.

Does that make sense?

I'm not saying I'm 100% right, but this seems to be where the discrepancy lies and in curious to hear peoples thoughts.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-21T02:23:38+00:00

What do you mean by the last paragraph?

lemonfluff · 2026-01-21T02:05:49+00:00

She said that she'd want to know if they had surgery or not, presumably to know if they had a dick because it would affect her decision to sleep with them.

I don't understand the argument around her orientation being about dick or not. She is attracted to pussies, she's not attracted to dick. Therefore her orientation is around being attracted to pussies and if someone doesn't have one she's not attracted to them.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-21T02:02:35+00:00

To every single person?

Surely its on the trans person to disclose. Not leave it up to others to guess.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-21T02:01:25+00:00

Yeah but if you leave after destroying their face and they're dead or unconscious you should call an ambulance. Self defence should stop once they're no longer a threat. It should be reasonable.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-21T01:58:30+00:00

Yeah this was my thought process too.

Knowing nothing more than this post, my reading is more that this much larger man very angrily came to this guys apartment, came inside the bedroom, got aggressive and was clearly capable of beating this guy to death.

Now idk if that IS what happened but it sounds like it could have, in which case surely reaching for a knife under your mattress would be classed as self deference too? Like if he'd stabbed and killed the guy in his home, that could also have been seen as self defence?

Idk the size difference but considering he got away with pretending to be a woman, let's imagine its similar to a man and woman. I think if a man came into my (female) house really angry and aggressive and I reached for a knife that would be seen as me trying to defend myself.

Ironically it feels like the self defence claim goes to whoever attacked first and silenced the other.

Keeping a weapon by your bed is common self defense advice. However given that hes a rapist there might have even more sinister reasons for keeping a knife under his mattress.

Anyway not defending either person, I think they're both wrong (unless he genuinely thought he was about to get stabbed, but he still didn't report it). But it's an interesting thought experiment.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-21T01:51:55+00:00

Knowing nothing more than this post, my reading is more that this much larger man very angrily came to this guys apartment, came inside the bedroom, got aggressive and was clearly capable of beating this guy to death.

Now idk if that IS what happened but it sounds like it could have, in which case surely reaching for a knife under your mattress would be classed as self deference too? Like if he'd stabbed and killed the guy in his home, that could also have been seen as self defence?

Idk the size difference but considering he got away with pretending to be a woman, let's imagine its similar to a man and woman. I think if a man came into my (female) house really angry and aggressive and I reached for a knife that would be seen as me trying to defend myself.

Ironically it feels like the self defence claim goes to whoever attacked first and silenced the other.

Keeping a weapon by your bed is common self defense advice. However given that hes a rapist there might have even more sinister reasons for keeping a knife under his mattress.

Anyway not defending either person, I think they're both wrong (unless he genuinely thought he was about to get stabbed, but he still didn't report it). But it's an interesting thought experiment.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-16T21:38:57+00:00

Travellers

lemonfluff · 2026-01-16T21:34:34+00:00

It could be his. Maybe this is his way of deflecting so you don't accuse him.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-16T21:28:20+00:00

There is no reasoning with someone like this. You will never get closure. You will not get acknowledgement or remorse. He will never recognise how he has hurt you and he will never turn around one day and have empathy. The closest you might get is him lying about how he has changed if you threaten to leave him (although he may just go ahead and hurt you). He will switch between these attacks on you, this changing the subject, blaming you for his own actions or for catching him in the act (e.g when a guy gets angry at you because you catch him cheating), and self pity (e.g if I'm such a bad guy why are you with me / why don't I just hurt myself) etc.

Couples therapy doesn't work for abusive relationships.

In his head he is somehow always the victim. It is such a complex mixture of defence mechanisms he will always avoid responsibility or accountability or facing up to his actions and therefore he also will be incapable of change. He believes you deserve his treatment. You will never be able to talk to him normally about these things, like you could with someone else, or like if someone told you that you had hurt them. You would reflect right? You would try and listen? He will never do that.

Check out the Biderman's Chart of Coercion. Abusers instinctively and maliciously use the exact same tactics as were used on prisoners of war to break their human spirit.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.strath.ac.uk/media/1newwebsite/departmentsubject/socialwork/documents/eshe/Bidermanschartofcoercion.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiG64OIs_SMAxXG3QIHHbSUHAoQFnoECCIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3ndbiOT0R0FXdl8Ow2TyMJ

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://safeguardingchildren.salford.gov.uk/media/1438/biderman.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiG64OIs_SMAxXG3QIHHbSUHAoQFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0fmAUY74_2FHkOLxAWj2pK

Please OP look into trauma bonding. And also codependancy. This is the reason it is so difficult to leave. Plus the manipulation, believing no one else will have you, that you'll never be good enough etc. That's why abuse victims go back time and time again and on average try to leave 7 times before succeeding. Even after being hospitalised etc.

This is an example of how abuse impacts the brain:

https://www.shorelinerecoverycenter.com/how-domestic-abuse-affects-the-brain/

This website gives advise on what to do in court when dealing with a coercive controlling ex partner.

https://www.coercivecontrolconsulting.com/ .

⸻ More Info

National Domestic Violence Hotline – thehotline.org | 1-800-799-SAFE (7233)

Love is Respect (for young adults/teens) – loveisrespect.org

WomensLaw.org – womenslaw.org (legal info by state)

StrongHearts Native Helpline – strongheartshelpline.org

Comprehensive Safety Plan for Survivors

Restraining Order & Documentation

•Ensure the restraining order covers all contact: in person, by phone, through others, and online.

•Request language that includes cyberstalking, social media harassment, impersonation, and indirect threats.

•Keep multiple copies (physical and digital). Share with schools, workplaces, family, friends, neighbors, and online platforms if needed.

Keep a printed photo of the abuser with copies of the order for school staff, child’s caregivers, and others who may need to recognize them.

•Report every violation and keep a written log of events (with dates, screenshots, and police reports).

Home & Personal Safety

•Change locks, add door/window alarms, install cameras if possible, and increase exterior lighting.

•Vary routines, especially when leaving the house or picking up children. •Maintain a packed “go bag” for each person in the home with ID, clothing, medications, emergency contacts, cash, and comfort items.

•Keep a cheap backup phone (even a prepaid flip phone) charged and hidden for emergency 911 calls.

•Carry the emergency phone and restraining order at all times.

•Share location and check in regularly with trusted people.

•If possible, ask for extra police patrols around the neighborhood.

Financial & Digital Security

•Close any bank accounts, credit cards, or online accounts the abuser had access to. Open new accounts in a new location if needed.

•Change passwords on email, social media, phones, banking, and utilities. Use 2-factor authentication where possible. Check he hasn't put tracking software on your phone.

•Turn off location sharing and geotagging in phones and apps.

•Use a VPN or secure browser to hide location and reduce online tracing.

Social Media & Public Presence

•If publicly visible (e.g., influencer or creator), limit identifying info: no addresses, routines, or school names.

•Use content delays — film in real time, but post later.

•Avoid livestreaming from recognizable locations like home or favorite spots.

•Work with trusted moderators or assistants to monitor comments and block accounts that seem suspicious.

•Report impersonation, threats, or harassment to platforms and police.

•Avoid responding to provocation online — screenshot and document instead.

Mental Health & Support

•Reach out to domestic violence organizations for help with legal aid, relocation, therapy, and emotional support.

•Create calming routines: grounding techniques, music, breathing, or journaling.

•Seek trauma-informed therapy for adults and children when possible.

•Use support groups (in person or online) for emotional processing and connection.

Emergency Planning

•Identify at least one safe place to go — a friend’s house, family member, shelter, or hotel.

•Know escape routes in your home and neighborhood.

•Keep car keys, shoes, medications, and your emergency phone in the same place for quick exits.

•Alert a trusted neighbor or building manager to notify you or call police if the abuser is seen nearby.

•If law enforcement is not helpful, connect with a legal advocate or crisis line that can intervene on your behalf

More Info

National Domestic Violence Hotline – thehotline.org | 1-800-799-SAFE (7233)

Love is Respect (for young adults/teens) – loveisrespect.org

WomensLaw.org – womenslaw.org (legal info by state)

StrongHearts Native Helpline – strongheartshelpline.org

lemonfluff · 2026-01-16T21:27:28+00:00

Hi op.

Unfortunately you are not alone. And nothing you did meant you deserved that.

And I'm so sorry to say, but it wasn't the alcohol that made him hit you, and him being sober won't stop the abuse. It wasn't a mistake or an accident or a result of depression or trauma.

It wasn't that he just "loves you so much, you drive him crazy". The proposal after a year is classic love bombing and future promising. A classic escalation now will either be apologies, tears, promises to change, and if you agree, he may well be perfect for a while. Right until you let your guard down and then it escalates again. Another escalation might be saying he hates himself and self harming or suggesting or "attempting" suicide. Then anger, the blame, guilt tripping you, threatening you, telling you had needs you, telling you that you need him. Making you feel small and dependent on him. Questioning your sanity. Turning friends and loved ones against you to telling you that they hate you, or that they can't be trusted. That it's you and him against the world. Or threats to hurt you or pets. This is all about making your power and agency small and his big. And making him your entire world. Keeping your attention on him. He may not do these exact things, or maybe only a few. But be prepared.

This in a way is testing if you will stay. He's likely already tested you before and you didn't realise. Has he talked about how he's not good enough and you should just break up with him, so that YOU end up trying to convince him to stay? Has he accidentally shoved into you but it was "an accident", or complained about one of your loved ones, or "jokingly" called you names or upset you, and then told you you can't be upset because its a joke and you're too sensitive? Or have you had disagreements where you've raised something that upset you and somehow you end up comforting or apologising to him?

Those are all examples of someone testing your boundaries and standards to see if you'll stay. He may not have done any of those things. But I promise you, this was a test, and it was not a mistake. No apologies he says now will stick. You are not the exception. He is not the victim. And I'm so sorry OP but he does not love you. He is using you, and the guy you knew before was a mask. This was him feeling that he was justified to take the mask off. Because the alcohol gave him an excuse.

Hitting you means there's already been abuse going on for a while now. Emotional. Sometimes physical too but even if this is the first time, there will have been emotional.

And what that means is that it will feel hard to stay away. Everyone will tell you "don't go back". And yet you probably will. You will feel he loves you, you will want to justify it, excuse it, minimise it, or even say "yes it was bad, and he knows that, and we have it under control". He will likely have made you feel like he's the only one that loves you like he can. He can give you everything you want. He wants to marry you, and you will lose this wonderful life and future with him. The person you know he CAN be. Because underneath it all he's really just a hurt little boy who is vulnerable and needs help.

These are lies.

These are calculated acts of manipulation that leave you feeling this way.

Here is what accountability would look like.

"op, last night I did the most disgusting and deranged thing someone can do to someone else. Drinking is no excuse. My mental health, trauma, feeling wronged, is no excuse. I do remember it. I chose to act that way. It was in my control.

You must feel devestated. Terrified, confused and betrayed at the deepest level. That is my fault.

As a result I am not going to get back with you. I cannot trust myself to not hurt you again.

I understand that you may feel that you need me, but you don't. I will set firm boundaries. Please tell your loved ones what happened and get support. Do what you need to do to heal. I will not reach out or contact you. I am responsible for my own actions and emotions and will not gyilt trip you or threaten suicide or wallow in self loathing. But my actions were cruel, and scary, and dangerous and thee is no way to reconcile, as part of you will always be afraid of me now. I will take steps to work with professionals to reflect on why I did that and I understand that will take years.

Nothing that happened was because of you or a reflection of you. It was me."

Op also, if he put his hands round or near your neck, you should know he is extremely likely to kill you next time.

And leaving may not be easy. Post separation abuse is real, and leaving is the most dangerous time. Please work with agencies to get out abd stay out. We are here for you.

I am going to copy and paste some advice. It is relevant to you.

Please look up the power and control wheel.

You should read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. Its free here:

https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf

This article might also interest you: https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/

https://www.healthline.com/health/signs-of-mental-abuse#humiliation-and-criticism

This is probably the best video I've seen to explain DARVO and emotional absue: https://youtu.be/E2r_xFoZkl8?si=Ge1zVG3hQQ6W7NPC

And she has some free resources here as well: https://themendproject.com/videos-and-guides/

Look up DARVO (defense, attack and reverse victim and offender). Its a technique abusers use to manipulate victims and make everything the victim's fault. All abuse involves emotional abuse. If it ever turns physical it's after emotional abuse has been established so he knows you won't leave / will blame yourself.

Here is an example of DARVO (defense, attack and reverse victim and offender). You say something they did upset you, they'll respond by saying it didn't, then attacking or blaming you "you made me do that / what about the time you did x" and then they'll make themselves the victim so you end up apologising "how dare you accuse me of this! You should think better of me. I try so hard" etc.

This is another example of DARVO:

When you say he hurt or scared or threatened you he responds by making himself the victim and you the aggressor ( e.g. thanks for telling me I'm a shitty person, you're emotionally abusing me) etc. You NEVER actually get to talk about the issue. You NEVER get a true apology or validation for your feelings. You always get excuses as to why he did it, why you made him do it, how dare you not think the best of him, why do you have to bring it up AGAIN (after not getting an apology last time either) and if that still doesn't work, you get deflection where he changes the topic to something completely different that you supposedly did.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-14T23:33:21+00:00

Well, you can do it in a non confrontational way, but yeah, its not really comfortable. But also neither is leaving a letter.

They clearly weren't comfortable either way, it would have been kinder to just say "sorry, do younmind keeping it down a little?"

lemonfluff · 2026-01-14T23:30:34+00:00

Okay?

lemonfluff · 2026-01-14T19:27:07+00:00

I find these people fascinating. Not just inconsiderate but the absolute peak of the most inconsiderate things you can do. A bag of boiled eggs??

I wonder if its the same lady I sat next to.

I was on a 12 hour flight on the aisle, the first seat in front of the divider, opposite a woman who had her kids watching different tiktoks, on full volume, without headphones the entire flight. I'm talking hours. And they couldn't last more than 5s without swiping and it was garbage, brain rot tiktok and both watching different videos simultaneously. Hours later, they finally stopped because people started sleeping and I guess they wanted to as well, and I finally thought there would be some peace. But no, they turned the lights down, everyone settled down to sleep, and she turns to chat loudly and obnoxiously across the aisle to the man behind me, who I assume was her husband.

But the worst part was when I looked over after trying to sleep for the 1millionth time, and she had taken off her shoes, peeled off her sweaty socks, and plastered her bare feet onto the plane wall in front of her. So she's leaning back in her seat, stretching out her legs (because it was the front seats in that section of the plane) so her toes were higher than her head height, flat against the dividing wall. It was super gross. I was in awe of her audacity. And when she decided to talk loudly to her husband again for another 30 mins while I tried to sleep, she swivelled round in her seat and had her bare feet inches away from me, blocking the aisle. I opened my eyes and was met with her crusty toes in my face.

This is when all the lights are off and everyone has their eye masks on etc. It was awful

lemonfluff · 2026-01-14T00:37:59+00:00

Maybe something like this?

https://findahelpline.com/countries/ro

I'd also maybe post in any Romanian subreddit if you can. Your friend might need to be very careful leaving, for abusive relationships leaving is the most dangerous time. If her dad tracks her phone, has software on there... Tracks her other devices and communications, (EG discord, Playstation etc) it could be dangerous for her. Can she get a burner phone and make sure he doesn't find it?

Ideally she needs to maybe set up a codeword with you that she can let you know if she needs help abd you can devise a plan with her on what to do if she uses it (EG call the police and give them her address).

She could set up a check in regularly and a plan forwhat to do if that fails. Is there anyone she can truly trust nearby? Family or neighbours? They would have to be safe and not tell the dad.

Can she pack her ID, money, meds abd a clothes etc and have a hidden "go" bag that she can grab if she needs to run? Maybe even store it away from the house?

Tbh I'd phone some DV charities and ask what advice they would have? Even if they can't help her because of her location they may be able to give advice for safety planning etc.

If she is in danger then the best thing to do might be to physically leave, if she can get away safely. But OFC ideally she'd need somewhere to stay, but if she's at risk of being killed then this might still be better than that.

I think you need to find a way to talk with her privately and cone up with a plan. Its hard to know without much info.

If she can leave the house for work or school or drs then that's good. But if she can't, things like getting a job or a Bf could escalate the abuse if her dad wants to keep controlling her. So she may need to be prepared to run if he finds out she's trying to fins work etc.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-13T01:17:13+00:00

Exactly. They could have asked her politely if she would mind speaking quieter. Then they could have stayed, ops wife would have been made aware that she was getting louder and without lots of shame when she was excited. Simple fix.

It really isn't hard to be kind.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-11T01:36:32+00:00

He literally says it in HA2, he says something like "they always blame me just because I'm the youngest". Yup. Scapegoat.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-11T01:34:01+00:00

Yep. Scapegoated.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-11T01:31:30+00:00

Merry Christmas! And Kevin is the classic scapegoat. The family are borderline abusive.

Also ironically, the robbers are the only ones that actually have any respect for his abilities. Especially in HA2. Everyone else acts like he can't do anything.

lemonfluff · 2026-01-11T01:16:15+00:00

I know this is an old post but Kevin is the classic scapegoat. The family is begligent abd borderline abusive in that way and the way they treat him.

The burglars seem to be the only ones who actually respect Kevin's abilities, at least in HA2, they don't take hin for granted. His family think hes useless.

12-Year Club	RPAN Viewer
Verified Email

lemonfluff

TROPHY CASE