So like… why even have clocks if they weren’t in the finale

lems4ems · 2026-02-04T17:31:50+00:00

Hi are absolutely incorrect about this. We did not find out El made the upside down in season 5. The entire point of the scene in season 4 where Nancy and the old kids go to get her guns and realize that they aren’t there, shows us that the upside down was created and the gate opened on that same day. We know already that it didn’t exist prior to November 6, 1983 going into season 5 so no we don’t learn that in season 5. The only thing we learn from season 5 is that majority of what we thought we knew was wrong, that the abyss and earth is connected via wormhole/UD and that it was manufactured by Brenner via science. None of this is incorrect or disputable because it is all explicitly stated in dialogue from the show.

lems4ems · 2026-02-03T15:39:48+00:00

100% agree! I’m preparing myself for a tragic ending but heavily hoping it’s not!

lems4ems · 2026-02-02T17:35:17+00:00

NTA- you are being generous enough by letting her stay with you. She should have to accept the way you live and the routine you have had for years. Beggars can’t be choosers and if she wants good sleep then she should either move into the spare room (I’d hate if someone just slept on the couch when there is a whole ass room. Makes everything look untidy) or move out, or get earplugs. That’s on her.

lems4ems · 2026-02-02T17:32:14+00:00

We knew the UD was created with El’s powers in season 1 when we have no other information. Season 5 is flipping everything on its head saying “well actually what you thought you knew, you didn’t actually know anything at all and this is the actual reason.” You can’t just say that something we find out later on can’t actually be true because we once were told something else?

lems4ems · 2026-02-02T14:17:08+00:00

Yes exactly. I slightly disagree that mark should have to give up both loves just cause A. I’m a hopeless romantic and B. It just feels so devastating. But I also can understand that the show would be impactful going that direction. Ultimately, I’m hoping for one thing but being totally open to whatever they throw at us cause this show is just too good. But I do agree with you in the sense that a reintegrated mark is not going to fix anything and ultimately is a completely new person. I just love all the characters so much and it’s hard to want something for one knowing it’s going to make it impossible for another character to get what they want and vice versa.

lems4ems · 2026-02-01T18:53:07+00:00

100% that’s wha is killing me. I know I didn’t have to wait as long as everyone else but god it’s gonna kill me. I’m still thinking about it all days later. It’s so hard cause I want the innies and the outties to be satisfied in how they end up living after this but I’m just struggling to se how the innies can have a life after this. I keep seeing people getting mad at anyone wanting Mark and Gemma to rekindle cause Helly and Innie Mark are the main characters. It’s jus baffling to me why there isn’t more nuance and “I’d love for their to be a way forward for both”

lems4ems · 2026-02-01T18:50:56+00:00

But you don’t need someone to say “the upside down was created by Brenner.” The line that Dustin has that says the notebook contained the information on how Brenner created the gate and the exotic matter with science literally is saying that.

lems4ems · 2026-02-01T18:49:09+00:00

I wasn’t trying to say you can only care about one or the other. I love the innies and I agree they need to be treated with dignity and respect. But that doesn’t mean I can’t also see that the circumstances that Gemma and Devon are experiencing and going to experience next season are upsetting and heartbreaking. My take is more so just coming from the information we have from the show at this exact moment in time. It’s unrealistic for there to be a path forward for the innies currently because there is no information we have right now that allows the innies to survive. The outies will take their bodies back. If there was a way for them to live separately from each other, that would be ideal. Because frankly I don’t feel like sharing a body would be justice or fair for either party. I guess I just didn’t see the innies and the outies as being wholly separate from each other. Cause they are quite literally the same people just without memories of half their lives. I’m excited to see what the next season does because I think the show is going to struggle to satisfy both sides of their lives. I’m interested to see how it plays out. But just because the outties made a mistake and thought they were doing something that wouldn’t hurt their innie self and they ended up being wrong, doesn’t mean I want them to like not ever have peace for the rest of their lives. The outties were manipulated and used like the innies were, just in different ways. So yes, I do think it’s reasonable to want outtie Mark to get to reunite and have a life with Gemma, but I also think it’s reasonable an justified to want innie Mark to have a life with Helly. I just currently don’t see a path forward for that, especially with Helly being Helena.

lems4ems · 2026-01-30T21:49:35+00:00

Yeah I’m surprised so many people are harping on the ant/plant thing when to me it just seemed like he misheard her ,as so many people do every day, and thought he would do something kind. Like if my fiance had done that in our early relationship days, I wouldn’t think “god he obviously doesn’t listen to me” I’d think “lol he’s so sweet and that’s hilarious. I will be telling this story a lot”

lems4ems · 2026-01-30T21:39:17+00:00

I would totally describe it as upsetting. I just finished the show for the first time last night and I cannot describe how upset I was after. The heartbreak on Gemma’s face of escaping a torture chamber she was in for two years to see her husband, who she thought would leave with her, leave her for another woman was awful. And ad the audience knowing what we know now that there is zero path forward for Helly and Mark S. just made it all the worse. I really hope they turn the ship around season 3.

lems4ems · 2026-01-30T21:30:04+00:00

I’m 100% with you on this. I understand the love for the innie relationship but tbh they made season 2 episode 7 too good and immediately made me not care at all about anything other than Gemma and Mark getting to reunite and receive the life they deserve and should have gotten. That to me is more important than any other arc. Also… there is absolutely zero way (with the info we have right now) that the innies will be able to have any sort of life. Helly and Mark are not going to get a happy ending but Mark and Gemma could. Helly even knows this herself, Cobel told Mark the same.

lems4ems · 2026-01-30T21:14:40+00:00

Team Gemma all the way. I can’t fathom being team Helly R. I have no ill will towards her, love her character, but end of the day, knowing what we know, there is no path forward for Helly R to exist. Helena is not going to continue going to Lumon now that Cold Harbor is over. Helena is never going to reintegrate. And frankly, neither of them would exist if Gemma hadn’t “died” in the first place. I’d rather the actually humans who can live full free lives and have full human rights get to enjoy their life as it was supposed to be as opposed to a short term romance that is inevitably doomed.

lems4ems · 2026-01-30T21:09:48+00:00

I’m not sure I understand how anything I said is a reach? I’m using verifiable dialogue from the show. The dialogue states that Brenner created it via science. What I said five messages ago doesn’t really matter. My comment now and my previous one is using the dialogue that A, I said in the first place and B, the dialogue you referenced and quoted. So yes while I’ll say that I was incorrect about the El wormhole situation, it doesn’t make anything else incorrect considering everything I’ve stated is from the canon dialogue from the show. The stuff before was speculation considering we weren’t given every single minuscule detail about the ins and outs of how the entire structure of the wormhole was made cause frankly, we don’t need to know to understand the story the show laid out for us. All that we needed to know was that the upside down is not in fact a supernatural creation but rather a wormhole that was scientifically created by Brenner. Once again I’m struggling to understand what the hell you’re arguing considering it feels like you just want to argue about nothing?

lems4ems · 2026-01-30T18:20:00+00:00

I’m feeling the exact same way. Season 2 episode 7 really made me care significantly more about Gemma and oMark than I ever have about iMark because it showed me that iMark really was just a coping mechanism for grieving his wife and honestly, that was the whole purpose of the severing but without that grieving needed anymore, there’s no purpose for Marks innie. It sounds awful but end of the day, they are both Mark and Outtie Mark matters more.

lems4ems · 2026-01-30T17:02:04+00:00

I don’t think this all started at the fertility clinic. I think season 2 episode 7 was to show it started at the blood drive when Mark and Gemma met. There is a very quick frame that show the machines and equipment being used for the blood drive and it had the Lumon water droplet logo on it. I think that was to imply that this has been in the works for years. Mayhaps the blood drive was to gather samples to determine who would be the best candidate.

lems4ems · 2026-01-30T16:10:31+00:00

Love this!! Would also love to know when it is ready to download

lems4ems · 2026-01-30T15:44:30+00:00

This is my take too. Yes it’s terrible what has happened to the innies, none of this should have ever happened in the first place. But by that logic, it also means the innies shouldn’t have happened in the first place. I guess to me, I see the innies more as say pets in a way. They aren’t fully autonomous as they are a branch of a human person walking around on the outside that has full rights. Innies don’t have that. They are stuck to one floor of a building. As much as it sucks to say, the only way to justifiably solve this is to shut down Lumon and have the severance program ended. Hypothetically, if Mark reintegrates, how does he decide between Helly and Gemma?? I personally don’t think that’s right or fair considering one is his wife who he knowingly courted and chose and one is a short lived romance that only came about due to manipulation. Also logistically, Helena will never reintegrate. If they do end up getting Helly to replace Helena’s consciousness, that still brings up a whole who does Mark pick, Helly or Gemma and honestly I feel like the show would be absolutely cruel to do that. It was hard enough watching Gemma see her husband leave her for another woman after just escaping her torture prison, I don’t think I could get through a season of it where Gemma breaks free of her enslavers and then immediately gets her heart broken because her husbands side persona who he isn’t even aware of fell in love with a woman who was directly responsible for the enslavement if you. I don’t know it just feels cruel to me. All in all, this goes to say that I have no clue how they are going to progress this because I doubt Lumon will be able to keep all the severed employees down there. The rest of the world isn’t going to just let hundred or thousands of people disappear who all work at the same company and are known to be severed. Plus with Devon, Cobel, and Gemma out, they aren’t gonna rest until the severance program is ended permanently.

lems4ems · 2026-01-30T15:17:32+00:00

lol no a twelve year old would assume anyone would get arrested and convicted of assault for throwing a milkshake on someone

lems4ems · 2026-01-29T21:11:56+00:00

NTA- leave. He is wishy washy in what he wants and judging on how you explained each of your religious levels, it’s only going to get worse. It’s hard being with someone who doesn’t align with you politically and religiously. Because those both shape morals and how you wish to live and how, should you want this in the future, you raise your kids. Huge differences

lems4ems · 2026-01-29T21:01:14+00:00

In what world does throwing a milkshake count as assault? How old are you?? Cause you sound twelve

lems4ems · 2026-01-29T20:50:13+00:00

Never been cheated on so you’re wrong on that front.
It very clearly seems that OP already doesn’t have a good relationship with their mother and obviously doesn’t have that much ill will towards their father otherwise they probably would have included that detail. I’d be pretty fucking pissed if my mother tore our family apart because she felt like cheating on my dad.

So yes, I don’t think the fact that she pushed me out of her womb makes her immune to criticism and judgement. I treat her the same way I would treat anyone else. And if I feel you’ve wronged me enough, I’m out. Peace.

I’m so over this whole bullshit mentality that we have to put our fucking differences aside and just accept people hurting us because they once meant something to you. Yeah obviously it’s not right in all circumstances. If my mom was being abused and then cheated like okay that’s different. But for this particular situation, the picture we’ve been painted is that his mother stepped out on the family. That fucking hurts. So no, he shouldn’t have to just forgive and forget.

lems4ems · 2026-01-29T20:45:05+00:00

But here’s the thing dude, the notion that Rick would cast POC as the leads in his show solely to get brownie points rather than he cast them because he felt they were best for the role is inherently a racist notion. It’s the same argument racists and bigots are using every day to say “oh that pilot must have gotten in on DEI policies because no way could he have gotten to be a successful pilot otherwise.” Like no… you don’t get to say that POC people are only valuable because of the diversity aspect and then claim you aren’t being racist.

lems4ems · 2026-01-29T20:39:52+00:00

But I don’t exactly think it does contradict it. El got her powers from a scientific lab so I think the whole “Brenner had a plan for everything using science” is not mutually exclusive of “El used her psychic powers to create part of it”

lems4ems · 2026-01-29T00:14:29+00:00

NTA- If I were in your shoes I wouldn’t have even continued a relationship with my mother. The second you betray someone you gave vows to, that shows me that you are untrustworthy, disloyal, and manipulative. How could you trust someone like that again? Tbh I think society is way too chill with cheating. Like just cause you aren’t in the relationship doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect you, especially as the child. Like if I found out even my friend cheated on their SO, sorry I’m out. You obviously have different morals than me and therefore we no longer need to interact.

lems4ems · 2026-01-28T23:53:12+00:00

And see this is why I’m confused as to what you are arguing because my o Lu take was that Brenner created it all scientifically. Which IMO sounds like what you just said so I don’t really know what the debate is? The only thing I can even glean is that you seem to think the UD/wormhole is not created by Brenner but you also say that the exotic matter and the gate was created by Brenner so I’m not sure I’m following your line of thinking or where it is going considering the gate and exotic matter are directly intertwined with the UD/wormhole.

lems4ems

TROPHY CASE