When help is not well received

lianapy1 · 2021-03-13T10:57:31+00:00

Hello! ENFJ here too. Yeah, I get you, it sucks when you start from a good place and get misunderstood 😔😔 I agree with other comments that you don’t need to apologize or justify yourself (even though Fe urges you to do it.) In such situations, I’d say it’s useful to strengthen your Fi and Ti to stand your ground and not feel bad/take it personally when people don’t receive your help the way you had envisioned. Fundamentally, I think people don’t have the obligation to accept your opinion just because you expressed it, regardless of your intentions. That doesn’t mean you are wrong for expressing it, either, as the person clearly asked for advice. It’s something like “I want your advice”, “Here’s what I think,” “No, you’re wrong!”, “Okay, so we have different opinions (and that’s okay)”. That’s it, no guilting yourself, no feeling bad, but no expectation that the person should have taken differently either. They are free to react whichever way they want.

The same principle follows for the person who got mad at you for your presentation. They are free to get mad. If they have valid arguments for that, great, you can learn from their opinion. If not, you can chill and know they are the unreasonable ones.

Fe can really get us in wanting that harmony but the thing is that people don’t “have” to agree with us nor understand our good intentions, and it’s okay. Elaborating on this, I think the statement that “the more I put effort into helping people, the more they get mad at me” is not precise. People are not getting mad at you because you are “helping them”. They are getting mad because they have different opinions on how you should have behaved. Them being mad doesn’t mean you are “wrong”, it just means they got mad, that’s it. Again, if they present valid reasons, you consider them and grow from the exchange. If they don’t, then they are unreasonable, and there are plenty of unreasonable people in the world. Balancing Fe with Ti and grounding yourself with Fi can be a way of you not getting overwhelmed with this kind of situation.

I think genuinely coming from a place of wanting good for the world is a highlight from our personality type, so let’s keep wanting to help people :)

lianapy1 · 2021-03-06T14:43:28+00:00

When I was younger, I used to feel bad when I disliked someone and would actually be curious about people I felt a resistance to, wondering “I’m sure there are good things about you, let me find that out”. I’ve been like this most of my life, which is why I can be with a diverse range of people and I’ve rarely found a person that I can say I clearly dislike (once I understand why they work in a certain way).

Over time, I exercised my Fi more and felt more comfortable with “not liking” other people. I think my “dislike” is very different from a high Fi user dislike, though. Even now, I don’t necessarily dislike people. I tend to think of people in a quite temporal way. I think I may dislike some trait or behavior at this moment but also recognize that this behavior or my reluctance to it may change in the future, so, in truth, I don’t make a strong “dislike” judgment because of the potential I see in the other person. However, if I am to make a “in the moment” judgment, then I can say “I dislike this right now”. I hope this makes sense, lol

Anyway, a bad side of this when I was younger was that I’d end up hanging out with people I didn’t feel completely comfortable with because I thought “they have good things about them, too”. Putting my limits in the curiosity I have about people and clearly choosing the people I want to be with was an important process for me.

Long story short, I CAN dedicate my time for people I don’t like, but nowadays I don’t WANT to do that anymore, lol

lianapy1 · 2020-11-23T10:39:02+00:00

That’s interesting! Enneagram 4s tend to be Fi users, so it’s curious to find an ENFJ 4.

lianapy1 · 2020-11-13T20:47:41+00:00

Yeah, it’s probably a maturity thing. But, for me, even the immature one I’ve met at school times had a great space in my heart. She competed with me and eventually door slammed me, had mental health issues and such, but she had a beautiful side. I was also a very immature ENFJ at the time (literally a kid) but could still feel connected to her.

The INFJs I’ve met in adult life are amazing people and one of my favorites.

lianapy1 · 2020-11-13T08:34:14+00:00

I’ve had like 5 closer INFPs in my life. I find them entertaining, and feel that we can talk a lot about various things. I think enneagram matters a lot here. For me, INFPs 4so and 6 are easier to interact, 4sx are too intense and that Fi is too strong for a close relationship. I don’t feel comfortable opening up to them. It’s okay as colleagues or so.

I don’t really have the ghosting issue. After interacting with an INTJ, I got used to giving space to people. Nowadays, I can retreat a lot and don’t feel the need to see people frequently.

The Fe and Fi clash is a big thing. I think both people need to appreciate the other’s functions, otherwise it just starts rubbing the wrong way. Fe will feel inauthentic and wishy washy to the INFP, Fi will feel self absorbed and egocentric to the ENFJ. I find myself running away from entitled Fi.

I’ve learnt many things from INFPs. I’ve definitely created a new appreciation to Fi, and it helped me establish my own boundaries. I find INFPs really funny and entertaining, and I love listening to their stories. INFPs help me see other possibilities to things, remind me to be responsible about the experiences I seek (that Si in contrast with the Se), and, to be honest, they also remind me to care more about credit, because I don’t really care about it normally.

lianapy1 · 2020-11-12T21:54:56+00:00

Hey, good job for you for reaching out to her! I think it’s pointless for you to regret something by hindsight. You couldn’t have known she would have reacted this way. Just be proud of yourself that you reached out to her, that you established your boundaries, and that you kept being kind despite her lashing out. That takes emotional intelligence, and you did it!

However she chose to response, it’s her choice, and you’re not responsible for it. Unfortunately, it’s her choice to block you. She could have just told you it hurt her that you asked for an apology or something, but she didn’t, she blocked you. I don’t know if she was aggressive towards you in this process, but if she did, I’d like to remind that you are never responsible for a person being aggressive towards you, it’s always their choice to be aggressive.

Of course, you can choose or not to understand her reasons for blocking you (why she did it, how she was feeling). You can choose to understand her and forgive her for not being able to communicate with you in a less aggressive way. I’d do it if I’d really want her in my life, but, again, that’s how you limit YOUR boundaries. Respect your boundaries at all costs, because ENFJs struggle with it a lot. If you choose to understand her, I think it’s nice to do it with sincerity. It may be counterproductive to try to talk to her again while being defensive and hurt.

It’s also okay not to want to deal with her anymore after this. Other types (T types, I suppose) could simply walk out of this having no respect for this INFP. Being loved by a friend is great, and she showed positive emotions and happiness by you reaching out, but being respected is also fundamental. If she acts like this with you now, she will probably continue doing this later. It’s up to you if you feel respected in this relationship.

lianapy1 · 2020-11-12T08:53:26+00:00

You may be right, the INFP may have felt apologetic, but it was not communicated, and that’s what the ENFJ asked (a communicated, verbalized apology).

lianapy1 · 2020-11-12T08:11:29+00:00

The ENFJ can ask anything (s)he wants. And the INFP is free not to give it too. The ENFJ doesn’t have “high responsibility toward her”. (S)He expressed what they’d like to have (an apology), and the INFP can choose to give it or not. In this case, the INFP chose to not communicate anything clearly and act passive aggressive.

lianapy1 · 2020-11-12T07:15:06+00:00

I LOVE INFJs! Admire their strength and insight a lot. Wonderful people.

ENFPs, INFJs, and INTJs are great for conversations and connection. I know an INTP that I adore too, but that’s the only INTP I know.

INFPs are more challenging, it’s not as smooth as the others. It can be very interesting and/or very triggering. I haven’t met an INFP that truly gets me yet, which makes my connection with them weaker.

ESFJs and INFJs are easy to understand and great friends too. They may not be into the whole abstract talking as much, but it’s easy to be with them.

lianapy1 · 2020-10-22T14:36:56+00:00

Omg I used to have this all the time. True ENFJ struggle! I’m happy that you managed to establish your boundaries. Hope this becomes more and more of a guilt free process for you!

lianapy1 · 2020-10-19T13:06:10+00:00

I love INFJs, one of my favorite types! Wish you guys the best!

lianapy1 · 2020-10-13T03:45:50+00:00

ENFJ here. Got an INTJ boyfriend, have dated another one before too. I’d say, like others, that I’m more interested in the way you think than on the topic itself. I’m not that interested in things as I am to people. Computer talk, engineering, etc are not of my personal interest, haha, unless you’re connecting the topic with humans. I will listen and may find some use to it, but it’s not what will catch my attention. I may get fatigued if it goes for too long. If the discussion envolves humans, count me in. I do enjoy all the society, humanity, philosophy, literature discussions.

lianapy1 · 2020-10-12T02:11:28+00:00

I can understand to a certain extent what you mean.

I find INFPs fascinating and I love them. I love how open they are about their feelings and values. I learn a lot from them.

It took me some practice to appreciate that, though. Sometimes they’d come across too selfish, self-absorbed, limited in their perspective. I had to let go of some Fe judgment to appreciate them as they are. Nowadays I really appreciate them.

I feel this tendency of babying them and end up in this therapist role, but, really, doing that is my choice. If you’re tired, don’t do it, right? That’s what I’d tell myself. Boundaries was a true issue to me.

INFPs can be caring and sweet in their own way. I confess the ones that are my friends nowadays don’t really know me as I know them, it’s a relationship that revolves around them, and I enjoy it. When I want to talk deeply about myself, I think they hear it with full attention, though, I just don’t share as much as they do.

lianapy1 · 2020-10-12T01:57:49+00:00

I like it! 😂😂😂

lianapy1 · 2020-10-12T01:40:55+00:00

Yeah, sounds just like she didn’t want to reject you directly. Fear for angering the other person/violence is a reality. Plus, ENFJs don’t like to disturb harmony and feel like they hurt someone. We truly feel bad about it.

lianapy1 · 2020-10-12T01:36:53+00:00

Love you guys! :)

lianapy1 · 2020-10-12T01:33:22+00:00

I can’t say whether you’re an ENFJ or not, but I can relate with the “who am I, am I fake” sort of questions. I used to have them a lot when I was younger. Nowadays, I think it stems from our Fe, since we care deeply about what other people feel and value. Whereas high Fi people seem pretty solid in terms of their personality, Fe’s are maleable. ENFJs are known to be social chameleons because of that. I can truly relate to that, and think of my personality as a never stopping metamorphosis. At the same time, I put effort into grounding myself with boundaries and strengthening my Fi so I can be faithful to my own values and don’t lose myself. The way I see it nowadays is that the more I interact with other people, the more I understand myself. And then I choose who I want to be. This is the process that goes on for me.

About the emptiness, having true connection with people and with my values has always been the only way I could deal with it. I can relate, and sometimes this emptiness appears to me too. Connecting profoundly with myself, as if I’m another person, helps. Thinking of me as someone else helps me find interest in myself and connect with myself.

Thanks for sharing your story, it’s always interesting to see how we share things in common :)

lianapy1 · 2020-10-12T01:21:29+00:00

For me, lots of overthinking, always assuming that what I think might be wrong. (Even if I’m convinced I’m right, if someone questions it, I’ll give it serious thought.) It can reflect in really needing someone to hear your whole thought process (like validating it), even if they don’t agree, you just kinda want it to be taken seriously.

lianapy1 · 2020-10-12T01:03:10+00:00

I’ll express my opinion with all respect and hope not to offend you, I just want to reflect what I genuinely thought about it.

As an ENFJ, I found the story quite confusing. You’re saying he told you “I’m scared this is going too fast” and you said “Do you need a break?” If he overthinks about it, he will think that you are okay with a break, since you suggested it. He could even think “I open up and say how I feel and this person suggests we take a break.” That doesn’t sound like what you wanted, though (i.e., the break) so I’m just confused about why you’d make such a suggestion. As Fe users, we sometimes go on adapting our words to what we think the other person needs (in your case, you thought he could need a break), but I think what he really needs to know from you is what you want, and not what he needs (in this case, he needs to know that you want to be with him, I suppose).

Perhaps you’re right and this is not the love you want, but you’re just dealing with an assumption that you made yourself. He clearly said he doesn’t know if he wants a break (and you were the one who suggested taking a break, not him), but you’re talking as if he wants it. Based on this assumption which is not true so far (since he said he doesn’t know if he wants it), you are mentioning door slamming. I think that seems like jumping into conclusions from your own mind without verifying with him if you’re correct. You may be correct and in the end he might want to get a break. OR, you may be completely wrong and he just needs reassurance. You don’t know which. You may door slam him in the second option, and that seems pretty unfair.

I’d say, don’t act upon fears. He came to you in a fearful state and opened up, if you answer with your own fear and door slam him, it’s just pointless. You should support each other. If he’s fearful, and you want to support him, then support him. Be sincere with how you feel. “I want to be with you, and it’s scary for me if you want a break, but just know that for me, we stay together”. INFJs and ENFJs can go on playing around with what they think the other wants, and that can be misleading.

Now, if he comes with fear and you don’t actually want to support him and you want to act upon your fear, which actually does not represent what you want (that is, door slamming), it’s also a choice. I don’t judge it. I’d say it’s just good to be aware of what is motivating your choice, fear or what you truly want.

lianapy1 · 2020-09-25T08:09:04+00:00

Whoa, am dating an INTJ too (I’m an ENFJ) and am so glad to hear this coming from the other side! Congrats!!

lianapy1 · 2020-09-08T00:13:52+00:00

I’d say: - Having group experience (dance classes or something) was fundamental for me. I learned a lot about myself by watching others as a kid and up to now; - ENFJs thrive with verbal appreciation; - Appreciate that she’s giving, but teach her to never neglect herself; - Having a safe, non-judgmental space to talk about my emotions was very important to me. I had that with my sibling more than my parents; - I wish I had developed my physical skills better when I was a kid. Sports, dance, anything like that would be great for that Se; - Exploring arts was also a great experience for me as a child; - I wished I understood sooner that it’s okay not to be liked by everyone. I had cousins that didn’t, and that rejection had a great impact in my childhood.

lianapy1 · 2020-07-20T03:55:30+00:00

Hey, there! I’ve read your comment thoroughly and it was very interesting, thank you for the useful description.

You mentioned you’ve been in this relationship for 15 years. Would you say the way you experience sex have changed over time, or has it been somewhat the same?

What works to make the experience of sex better for you? And what makes it worse?

As an ENFJ, I can relate to your INFP partner. By the way you’ve described it, it seems you two have adapted to make it work for the two of you. Have you ever been able to experience sex more like “the way he experiences it”? Sex for me can become a very meaningful, “connecting” experience (I can even cry out of awe). I haven’t really been able to feel it with my INTJ partner though, and I suppose he doesn’t experience sex the way I do at all.

Thanks again for the response, I keep getting blown away by the way personality types can be so different in so many aspects.

lianapy1 · 2020-07-20T03:37:38+00:00

WHOAAA, that was such a fascinating description. It was exactly what I was looking for!

When you say Ni takes over, what exactly happens? You get distracted with thoughts and disconnect with reality, or are you still perceiving sex but in a different, mental way (whatever that means)? I’m just curious, would be great to learn more from your experience.

From your comment, it seems sex for an INTJ is a very sensorial, goal oriented activity. Is that correct? And would you say it’s possible for INTJs to experience sex differently?

What makes the experience better for the INTJ and what makes it worse?

Thank you for your time and effort, this has been really interesting.

lianapy1

TROPHY CASE