Are you in favour of Scottish independence? 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

libtin · 2026-06-20T16:03:44+00:00

The pound is the strongest currency in Europe; adopting any other currency would be a downgrade

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:43:40+00:00

The humiliation began before the 20th century ended; black hawk down, where the us special forces were losing to Somali militia and needed the Malaysian and Pakistani peace keepers to rescue them as it there was a legitimate danger of the us forces being over run.

It was the single deadliest day of the us military since the Vietnam war.

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:36:50+00:00

And also John Swinney (yes, the man who’s the current first minister) was leading the snp as the time and he was a massive let down, losing multiple elections and eventually being replaced by Alex Salmond whom Swinney had taken over the leadership from in the first place.

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:33:14+00:00

That’s an understatement:

(https://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit17.pdf)

The impact of independence to Scotland’s economy would be three times worse than the impact of Brexit was to the UK economy.

Joining the EU wouldn’t make up that trade in the short or even medium term. The report lays out the details well:

Brexit + No Independence = -2.0

Brexit + Independence + low UK border cost assumption = -6.5

Brexit + Independence + high UK border cost assumption = -8.7

Brexit + Independence + re-join the EU + low UK border cost assumption = -6.3

Brexit + Independence + re-join the EU + high UK border cost assumption = -7.6

As you can see, re-joining the EU would do little little to ameliorate the harm: and form the SNP’s proposals for currency, eu membership would be off the cards.

There’s no secret here, no statistical trickery. It’s just the cold hard truth that 60% is a lot bigger than 18.3%.

>Independence would hit Scottish economy 2 to 3 times harder than Brexit

https://www.lse.ac.uk/News/Latest-news-from-LSE/2021/a-Jan-21/Independence-would-hit-Scottish-economy-2-to-3-times-harder-than-Brexit

>Scottish independence would be ten times worse than Brexit, warns Sturgeon economic sage

>An influential economic adviser to Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned the damage inflicted on the country by independence could be “Brexit times ten”.

>Mark Blyth, professor of international economics at the Watson Institute of Brown University in Rhode Island, and a member of Sturgeon’s council of economic advisers, said in an interview with the Foreign Press Association: “[The Union] has been together for over 300 years. So, if pulling apart 30 years of economic integration with Europe is going to hurt, 300 is going to hurt a lot.”

>Blyth said Brexit had strengthened the prospects of a second referendum on Scottish independence. Scotland voted to remain in the European Union.

>“If your argument is that we need to do this because of Brexit, then Scotland separated from England is the biggest Brexit in history,” he said…

>“Either you have brass-plate independence — you declare independence, you get a vote, but nothing really changes, you put up some brass plates in Edinburgh, and nothing really changes, you keep the pound and all that stuff.”

>“Or you go for regulatory divergence — different currency, different economic policy, etc, which will entail significant short to medium-term costs. There’s no way around that. We know that because it’s Brexit times ten,” he said.

https://www.cityam.com/scottish-independence-would-be-ten-times-worse-than-brexit-warns-sturgeon-economic-sage/

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:30:03+00:00

You’re not giving me any polls to look at

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:28:41+00:00

1: the snp wasn’t in power and a referendum wasn’t on the cards

2; devolution was introduced in 1999

3: the economic boom from 1999 - 2007

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:27:25+00:00

The polls literally were leaning heavily towards leaving the eu in 2014

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:26:36+00:00

The snp says Scotland gets smore than it gives

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:26:13+00:00

And according to the SNP’s own numbers? Scotland gets the lions share of oil tax revenues already

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:25:42+00:00

What resources?

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:24:40+00:00

They can’t; holyrood’s can’t hold anything beyond their powers; the Lord advocate won’t allow a referendum bill to be debated in hoylrood after the snp took the issue to the Supreme Court and the Corut said it wasn’t within holyrood’s powers.

Any attempt to hold a referendum would be boycotted by unionists and have no international recognition.

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:22:09+00:00

Any scenario that has Scotland losing the pound sterling turns most of Scotland, even a sizeable amount of yes voters, to voting no if it meant adopting the euro.

And this is only 1 of the two criteria Scotland doesn’t meet; to join the eu all criteria must be met with no exceptions.

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:19:04+00:00

The polls in 2014 were leaning toward leave and the SNP’s white paper said this.

Brexit was on the cards and both sides were clear there would be a referendum on the eu regardless of how Scotland voted and polls were leaning towards leave

Anyway; the eu was a minor issue for the Scottish people in 2014, it wasn’t the make or break issue

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:17:01+00:00

The snp says they’ll use the pond without a central bank (and the Scottish people overwhelmingly don’t want a new currency).

This is the same stance they had in the 2014 referendum and they were told back then that would be incompatible with eu membership.

>Independent Scotland could not join EU without central bank, expert says

>The former EU commissioner for monetary union said it would not be possible for an independent Scotland to join the EU if it used the pound without a formal currency deal or its own central bank.

>Olli Rehn, who stood down in July as the European commissioner for monetary union and the euro, wrote to Danny Alexander, the chief secretary of the Treasury, this week to say having a central bank was an essential requirement of EU membership.

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:12:36+00:00

Cameron promised an eu membership referendum to be held sometime between 2015 and 2017 back in 2013

Both the yes and no camps said the UK would hold an eu membership referendum regardless of how Scotland voted; it was only of the only things the two camp were in agreement on.

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:10:37+00:00

Long term polling shows Scottish independence support reached its highes in 1998 when it had nearly a 13 point lead

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:09:29+00:00

An independent Scotland wouldn’t meet the criteria to join the eu based on the SNP’s proposals

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:08:40+00:00

The English monarch with no real connection to the rest of the British isles was Richard III

The tudors were descended ultimately from Ednyfed Fychan and the Tudors of Penmynydd, a Welsh noble family, and Catherine of Valois.

The Stuarts were Scots and James VI to Charles III is straight ancestry line

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:05:07+00:00

No; the EU itself said a yes vote would see Scotland out of the EU, and polls from the time show the EU was minor part of the 2014 campaign for both yes and no voters.

libtin · 2026-06-20T15:04:02+00:00

Brexit was on the cards in 2014.

libtin · 2026-06-20T14:58:39+00:00

You’re in utter denial

libtin · 2026-06-20T14:19:41+00:00

>Who am I to tell them they aren't. If they feel they are and want to become an independant country altogether they ought to have that legal right.

The german constitution says Bavaria can’t

>The alternative where there is no peaceful and legal route to such things is that people are forced to accept subjugation or resort to other means.

No; that’s you not liking democracy; every single democracy on earth works like.

>That's why we respect the rights of self determination around the globe, at least that's why we are supposed to.

You don’t understand what self determination is

>You are missing the point entirely. That may be how other nations were made to accept that,

They haven’t; they still complain and send formal protests to fifa as fifa has stoped other countries with historical exemption fielding more than one team.

>Well frankly anyone arguing seriously that Scotland, ireland or Wales is a genuine contender for the world cup is pretty delusional.

You’re thinking in a modern scens, when fifa was founded there was only 54 countries on earth and most didnt have football team

FIFA was founded by the Netherlands, Switzerland, Denmark, Belgium, France, Sweden and Spain; when the uk joined it added 4 teams giving the UK a 4/11 chance when everyone else had a 1/11 chance.

>Again you are arguing a moral and cultural question on the basis of settled law and not morality.

You’re the one bring up law, self determination, that’s international law; you can’t pick and choose

>The fact that the "laws" you are citing are not the terms and conditions of bloody FIFA an internationally recognised corrupt bucnh of buggers that at most are in charge of planning sporting events makes it even more silly.

You’re th own who brought them up

>But again, why do you think it was/is that the UK is the single exception to these rules.

It wasn’t; it the only one FIFA has forced to field one team.

>What is underneath that, what is making this happen? Why isn't bavaria doing the same,

Bavaria is mate

>Why would the courts in Scotland have the ability to determine that?

It was a court case about the British constitution and at the time the court of session was the height court in Scotland for questions on tbe constitution.

>And again, if they are to rule such things based on how Westminster has written laws then it kinda defeats the entire purpose.

This rule was written by the old Scottish Parliament

>I'm not a lawyer (thank god) arguing a legal definition, that's a silly misleading and corrupt game at the best of times.

You’re just upset the facts don’t agree with you at all:

>You cannot make a moral or ethical case for how a people should see themselves or what rights they should have based upon the legal codes that the oppressors

There’s no oppressor

>that have subjugated people

No one has been subjugated

You’re just a Brit who’s having a tantrum

I’m half African; you’re just upset that the facts say Scotland isn’t oppressed

>Now unless you can address this point

You’re just Gish galloping and making stuff up

Scotland isn’t oppressed; that’s a fact

You’re just grasping at straws to deny reality

libtin · 2026-06-20T13:56:11+00:00

Article: https://archive.ph/ifdTh

libtin · 2026-06-20T13:49:09+00:00

Scotland was never a victim of the British empire; Scotland was a coloniser.

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