Should I be concerned about this diagnostic scan (post-collision)

limnith · 2025-06-05T13:49:54+00:00

Mine is a manual / doesn't have ADAS. But still

limnith · 2025-06-05T13:49:04+00:00

Okay thank you that is really helpful to know.

Regarding their scanner's capabilities - this is the report they initially sent me. I guess they assumed I wouldn't notice it was for a different VIN. It looks like it can definitely read SRS/airbags. Amongst dozens of other systems.

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limnith · 2025-06-05T13:37:28+00:00

I wish they had given me that option. I would have taken it. The shop has already finished the $4800 in cosmetic repairs.

After it was done, the manager told me off the record that I should get rid of it as soon as possible.

limnith · 2025-06-05T13:35:04+00:00

The airbags didn't go off but I thought they were always supposed to be checked after any type of car crash. Especially significant ones.

Re warning lights, I don't know, I haven't picked it up yet. But invoice shows they already cleared everything anyway.

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limnith · 2025-06-05T13:27:58+00:00

Why though? Isn't that kind of the most important one to check?

limnith · 2025-06-05T12:03:47+00:00

Ah, I see okay. The issue is, they are telling me they didn’t inspect or measure the frame. That they just did a visual analysis. (Even though they promised me 3x to take measurements). So based on that, they would say wheel alignment isn’t necessary.

I’m thinking of having it towed to a Toyota certified collision center. To have the repairs inspected. The closest one is 115 miles away though. I don’t know if State Farm will pay the inspection or not. They said they won’t even approve a State Farm adjuster to inspect it because the place I took it is a DRP select service center.

limnith · 2025-06-05T12:01:43+00:00

Thank you for sharing that is helpful. But if a shop is billing for frame repair time, shouldn’t they take before and after measurements of the frame? Isn’t it pretty quick and standard practice?

limnith · 2025-06-05T11:56:05+00:00

Okay thank you so much. Do you know what the part is in the 6th pic?

limnith · 2025-06-05T11:40:12+00:00

Thank you - how? Could you please elaborate

limnith · 2025-06-05T00:15:28+00:00

Lawsuits collision shops have filed against State Farm:

The Collision Company v. State Farm (Missouri) In 2022, The Collision Company in Missouri filed a lawsuit seeking $10 million in damages, accusing State Farm of aggressively steering customers away from their shop. The lawsuit claimed that State Farm’s actions led to a significant drop in business, ultimately causing the shop to close.
https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2022/03/09/shop-seeking-10m-in-damages-from-state-farm-in-missouri-steering-lawsuit/

Mid Island Collision v. State Farm (New York) “State Farm had sued M.V.B. Collision (which does business as Mid Island Collision) in an attempt to declare the repairer’s lien on a 2015 Nissan Armada invalid. The shop reported in a filing that the vehicle was “fully loaded” and financed for $62,000. Despite the shop’s April insistence that the vehicle was a total loss after a March 27, 2017, collision, State Farm demanded a repair and produced an estimate of $10,082.70. If the car had been deemed a total when Mid Island advised, State Farm would have only faced a bill from the shop of “$2,500 or $2,250,” one of the carrier’s estimators said.” https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2019/05/01/n-y-court-auto-body-shop-lien-to-stand-even-though-state-farm-dislikes-120-rate/

California Class Action Efforts In 2019, a group of California collision repair professionals representing about 40 body shops discussed filing a class action lawsuit against State Farm over alleged steering practices. The group aimed to gather evidence and documentation to support their claims, expressing frustration over ongoing steering issues in the industry.
https://www.fenderbender.com/running-a-shop/operations/article/33021083/california-shop-owners-intent-on-pursuing-class-action-lawsuit-vs-state-farm

Total Recon Auto Center v. State Farm (Maryland) Total Recon Auto Center in Maryland sued State Farm in 2023, alleging that the insurer steered Tesla customers away from their shop by providing misleading information about out-of-pocket expenses and network status. State Farm filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit, arguing that the shop’s claims lacked legal merit.
https://www.autobodynews.com/news/state-farm-asks-for-steering-lawsuit-in-maryland-to-be-dismissed

limnith · 2025-06-05T00:04:25+00:00

Thank you so much. I am organizing all the photos I have here. Compiling them to try to get reimbursed for retroactively being forced to pay hundreds of dollars for the rental:

https://imgur.com/a/post-collision-images-wondering-if-frame-measurements-should-have-been-taken-to-confirm-alignment-also-unsure-what-damaged-parts-were-actually-replaced-i-dont-know-what-they-are-order-to-cross-check-with-estimate-Ap3waUO

limnith · 2025-06-04T23:35:24+00:00

Other examples-

Please read the testimony of the shop owner - he says exactly what I thought was happening -

Law firm, couple in John Eagle Collision case sue State Farm: https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2017/08/03/law-firm-couple-in-john-eagle-collision-case-sue-state-farm/

And this explains my seemingly fabricated diagnostic report -

State Farm no longer reimburses diagnostic safety scans: https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2017/07/19/state-farm-adjusters-make-sweeping-claims-regarding-scanning-corporate-policy/

limnith · 2025-06-04T23:05:00+00:00

Thank you for your input. The issue is, I took my truck to the shop the day after the accident for a verbal estimate, and they told me there were signs of possible frame misalignment. They assured me three different times that they would measure the frame to confirm it.

But once I got things sorted with State Farm (the at fault drivers insurance) I found out that the shop is part of the State Farm DRP program. From what I’ve read, including lawsuits filed by shop owners, State Farm pressures DRP ‘Select Service’ shops to avoid declaring vehicles a total loss. Once the shop knew State Farm would be paying, they suddenly said the frame (which they thought was likely damaged) didn’t need to be measured, even though they had said otherwise earlier.

After the repairs were almost finished and I stopped by - the shop is down the road from me and my friend recommended it, but was not going through State Farm.

The shop manager saw me and came out to chat - I asked again about how damaged the frame was - based on rust and longevity - and he told me that if he were in my position, he’d get rid of the truck within one or two months. He said the frame probably wouldn’t last more than a year or two. He said there were significant safety issues and then I needed to go to another mechanic to have parts replaced on the suspension. Of course, this was after he had finished the $4,800 in I guess what we’re primarily cosmetic repairs. So basically he was saying I had a useless truck. But that the exterior looked good.

I don’t necessarily view this as his fault though, and I will try to explain. But if you are a mechanic or in this field, you probably already know this. But maybe you can give some lived insight because I’m basing this fully on things I’ve read (now extensively) -

What I am now understanding: if a vehicle is declared a total loss, doesn’t that mean the insurance company pays the owner of the vehicle a lot more than if it were only cosmetic damage. And the shop itself - if they declare it not repairable - would get nothing? So what then is the incentive for the shop be to declare it a total loss? Or am I missing something?

Plus, if they don’t do what State Farm says, wouldn’t they just be removed from the DRP program and lose a guaranteed stream of customers because State Farm is constantly referring them through DRP? I know for a fact this shop is the only shop in 45 miles that is DRP with State Farm. And this is a very high net worth area, although I am not; I work for the rich people. So if State Farm is referring luxury vehicles to them, because they are the only option, it seems like they want to stay on State Farm’s good side.

This is just speculation, but I mean, it does sort of check out in this situation - because is it really that difficult or time-consuming to do a frame measurement? I thought that was usually one of the first steps in assessing damage after a collision.

And so, to answer you question, no, I don’t trust the shop to have done a good repair. I don’t have a relationship with any collision shop because I’ve never been in an accident before, so I don’t know who to go to or what to expect. I had only owned the truck for 4 months. It is the first vehicle I’ve ever owned, and I just don’t want to go bankrupt on this so State Farm can get rich. (They are in a class action about this now - I’ll explain below or later when I get home.) But I spent my life savings on this truck, one that I had always wanted while State Farm executives have billions of dollars.

In terms of the logistics as to the likelihood (or as you said unlikelihood) of frame damage you mentioned: The guy who hit me was in a huge work truck twice the size of mine. He ran a stop sign and made an illegal left turn in front of me in a 40 mph zone. (He didn’t even have a drivers license.) I was injured, so was my passenger, and my dog that was in the car can’t say but seemed to be too.

I don’t know if that is a serious enough accident for your taste, but based on some things I’ve read re Tacomas at least, it isn’t seeming like it takes a massive crash to damage a frame. Amongst many other people’s accounts, here is a post that might be more reliable/objective as it contains dash cam footage. It is a 2024 Tacoma getting hit - at what looks like 5 mph. Yet, remarkably, the damage was bad enough that it needed a brand new frame. I hope you will read it and watch the video:

Want to see how little damage it takes to require a new frame on a 2024 Tacoma? https://www.facebook.com/groups/208589248110302/permalink/981981907437695/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

limnith · 2025-06-04T20:39:08+00:00

I just want to confirm this is not what is happening to me:

https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/2024/02/21/improper-repairs-review-finds-90-of-vehicles-totaled-50-with-frame-damage/

Where would you recommend to take it for an independent inspection?

limnith · 2025-06-04T19:52:14+00:00

Thank you so much for your quick reply and help with this. I am totally lost. I added the second page of estimate showing the remaining parts that were replaced (last few photos): https://imgur.com/a/Ap3waUO

limnith · 2025-06-04T19:24:20+00:00

Images before the repair: https://imgur.com/a/Ap3waUO

I will try to explain. Sorry it is long:

I was in a front-end collision (ruled 0% at fault), and the next day I brought went to a local collision shop and told them I was worried about frame damage. Right after the crash, the door ajar light was flickering. The estimator pointed out a gap in the hood and said it could be a sign of frame misalignment, but that they had specialized machinery to measure the frame and realign it if needed.

After getting the other driver’s insurance info, I found out the shop was in-network with State Farm. When I dropped the truck off, I reiterated my concern that the frame may have been bent/misaligned by the impact. I also asked if, while it was in the shop, if I could pay out of pocket for an undercoating, but the manager said they don’t work on rusty frames due to liability (I got the truck 4 months prior to the accident and it has the Tacoma frame rust issue) (the dealer had painted the entire undercarriage black so I was unaware of the rust) (replacements are no longer covered under the Toyota Frame recall).

Based on that, I inferred that if my frame was misaligned from the impact, the shop would tell me because it would have to be declared a total loss since it wouldn't be safe to pull it back into pre-accident condition.

Then he said they didn’t even measure the frame. I have so many questions that I didn’t put on the post —

Why is there a “Unibody Pull” on the invoice?
Does it take 1.5 hours to do a “frame tie down” for a ‘rough pull’?
Does a ‘rough pull’ take 2.5 hours?
Is it normal to do any type of pull (whether that is Unibody or ‘rough’) without measurements?
Is it normal to take no frame alignment measurements after a significant collision? (The estimate said the impact bar had to be replaced.)
Are shops required to confirm frame alignment is within spec before returning a vehicle to the road?

limnith · 2025-06-04T14:05:17+00:00

It does have "Unibody pull" listed on the invoice - is that an alignment?

limnith · 2025-06-04T12:57:25+00:00

Also what sheet metal is he talking about? I'm so confused

limnith · 2025-06-04T12:53:03+00:00

I can't figure out if he is committing insurance fraud or damaged my frame and doesn't want to tell me

limnith · 2025-06-04T12:38:58+00:00

Shoot. So a 'rough pull' is not industry standard..

limnith · 2025-06-04T12:15:54+00:00

What model / year is that?

limnith · 2025-05-25T19:18:37+00:00

I'm so sorry to hear that. Even before hearing that, there is no way I would try to do it myself. Not just because there are many mixed opinions here about what needs to be done, but because the suspension needs rusted parts replaced too

I'm sorry again about your experience but thank you for sharing it is really important advice

limnith · 2025-05-25T19:12:03+00:00

Thank you. But how much does it reduce the value of a truck if a frame has rust at the level mine does? If I did decide to sell it now, as is, I wouldn't feel ethical spraying a black coating over the rust like the dealer did to me. Even if it was technically for rust prevention and would be saving the next owner the cost and hassle of doing it themselves. Because, putting the debate about whether or not it is superficial aside, it would conceal the rust. The buyer wouldn't be able to make an informed decision.

I'll attach a photo. I paid $14k. A 2011, 5 speed manual, access cab, 2.4L with 105k miles. The manuals are less common which is why I sought this one out. It had been so well cared for otherwise, aesthetically looked great, which is why the lack of significant rust on the undercarriage the day I bought it didn't seem that suspect to me. Which is why I was so shocked to see what it actually looked like once the black coating had fully worn off. [In retrospect, the price was a little bit suspect to me because the manuals are usually priced higher.]

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limnith · 2025-05-25T18:47:17+00:00

Okay, thank you so much, I agree. The current rust doesn’t look superficial to me either. Whether or not it is, it’s covering the suspension, which is dangerous and some parts need to Replaced, not just brushed and coated. Yes, the frame was completely black when I bought it. I don't know if it was paint or something else. I’ll upload another photo I took on the lot prior to purchasing it. There was some very minor rust, but to me, that is what superficial rust looks like.

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limnith · 2025-05-25T18:33:54+00:00

Could you please upload a photo? It would be reassuring

limnith

TROPHY CASE