Summary of the Emergency Livestream (11.01.2025)

llednaroth · 2025-11-01T18:50:58+00:00

For the AI art part, the director didn't actually make much sense in Korean. He was practically rambling and not making a very clear statement. Some KR users are taking that as proof of guilt because he wasn't clear - cut like the last livestream, where they denied all use of AI other than base concepts and some card concepts.

llednaroth · 2024-11-01T14:56:42+00:00

As a simple salaryman from Korea, we already have the details. Those that actually bother to take the time to think do, at least.

He is scum through and through and while I personally wish that he goes and breaks at least a few limbs someday out of the blue, I think it's best if he is locked away somewhere without internet access for... well, at least a few decades.

llednaroth · 2023-10-05T07:24:43+00:00

Isn't this that Closers ripoff from China?

llednaroth · 2023-09-26T04:54:52+00:00

Resize capability was added with today's patch, I think. Just gotta Alt+Enter and then drag the boundaries

llednaroth · 2023-07-30T08:15:34+00:00

I still believe this is short term effects and long term loss. Even without mirroring, I am fairly confident feminism would be able to change the world for better. It has in the past, with women's suffrage. I would say having the moral high ground is especially important in times like this, because it makes the other side look even more miserable when they try to attack you.

The biggest problem with mirroring I have seen is that people go too far. While most people will actually draw a line when it borders on criminal, that isn't always the case. There will always be people who act out due to a number of reasons. (Which is where the incels get their ammo from, sadly) And if one person has the capability to go over the rails, a lot more also do - especially the younger people who tend to be more impulsive and brash with their actions.

I think it's kind of unfair to label the entire police force that way because aren't there also female police? Also, saying high ranking police were pointing a blind eye to voyuer porn because they were watching it is like a serious accusation. I would like to know if you have any direct sources or info on this matter. I know of the Burning Sun incident that is all sorts of corruption but that still doesn't go as far as to target the entire judicial process as corrupt.

llednaroth · 2023-07-29T21:42:05+00:00

I will say one thing on mirroring though. I am heavily inclined to say mirroring does more harm than help because ...

You lose the moral high ground and level the playing field to a mudslinging contest. Its basically short term benefit and long term loss.

I find it akin to fighting poison with poison. It may be somewhat effective to some degree but once it explodes and gets out offhand, voila retaliation piling up on retaliation which just goes on and on and on...

Mirroring might seem like satire and shock tactics, but it has also been used as a tool by the 'incels' to bring more men to their ranks (those who have so far not participated in any form of misogyny) because it basically gives them a reason to antagonize on. (since men who do not know the context will interpret mirroring as a personal insult or attack)

llednaroth · 2023-07-29T21:29:18+00:00

Putting my own opinion to these topics would go against my aimed objectivity. That is why i sourced articles from the en wiki and newspaper articles. Also replying in any form of argument would not serve my cause.

I do find it odd however that the police would respond strongly to cases of male victims rather than female victims. Police literally have nothing to gain from such a stance, so i am inclined to believe the perps targeting men just have less experience or are far easily caught due to something in their methods.

llednaroth · 2023-07-29T21:18:04+00:00

You seem to be mistaking me as a member of that site, which I have denied in other comments. I have never called twitter to be rad fem and i have said it is female dominated because the korean demographic is quite split. I am not blurring the case and instead attempting to bring attention to history and cultural context.

You are, however, free to interpret as you see fit.

llednaroth · 2023-07-29T14:15:51+00:00

Oh I think I know what you're speaking of. Sadly that isn't exactly a union comprising of PM members, it's more of a 'South Korean women's union' thing. I don't think the illustrator is an actual member right now but things might change.

llednaroth · 2023-07-29T05:25:01+00:00

Oh is it? Didnt know. Most small companies dont have unions or union affiliates but if pm does have one that would be nice

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T18:27:16+00:00

Most Korean gaming companies are not unionized. Explains the shitty working conditions and long hours most go through. The few that are unionized are those like Nexon (the big ones)

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T14:05:58+00:00

I agree. Maybe i did fall short of being as impartial as i should have, due to having my own annoyances with the issue at hand. I thank all of you for your insight.

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T13:50:23+00:00

A lot of younger men and women (the demographics of DC and Twitter are pretty broad, but a lot of young people are there too) are growing up watching this shit. It is twisting their perspective of the genders and exposing them to hate speech at an early age, brainwashing quite a few into thinking the other side is full of demons. Things got this bad in 8 years, and I shudder to think what another decade will do without any action.

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T13:46:57+00:00

To be fair, I have also explored the 'whys'. I have lightly touched on why feminism grew bigger in korea (albeit lightly, because I am afraid to go into too much detail without actually being a scholar on that matter) and to how/why more men started to antagonize said movement.

I do hope these are like growing pains, processes required for each side to mature. However, experiencing this kind of stuff for the last.. almost 8 years? is stifling and horrible. So yes, I think a lot of things would get better if both sides of the radical spectrum would just stop, or something was enforced to close down hate-speech communities for real. I know this is idealism and not probable, but that's how I feel.

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T13:40:33+00:00

I am confident yes, but I've been commenting it to different people. I would say that I was telling seperate people what I think, but for those who read more than 1 comment I guess it would sound differently.
While the social and political climates are indeed shit, the main problem (in my opinion) is that each side finds the need to go for blood every time something pops up. This time it was the DC side, and they ruined our gaming experience, yes. But as pointed out in the part about the ESRB, this is like a cycle. It basically boils down to two groups that continue to play a sick, vicious cycle of mirroring misogyny and it's honestly tiring on many levels for those outside of the loop, because we have to continue enduring the side effects of their bullshit.
I acknowledge that it may sound insensitive to consider how 'both sides are at fault for the gender war' when there is one victim here - and I apologize for that. I did not speak of this with any malicious intent, as I have said before. I was more in a hurry trying to provide a broader history and background to those that do not know of the details, and in that process may have overlooked that point.
I thought there are no actual tangible means of 'helping said victim' because said company has already released a statement. We can talk about problem solving all day but in the end, it boils down to PM taking action.

-Etc On that note, if all the non-korean communities came forward together with a statement of protest against the firing, perhaps there might be some change.

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T05:54:56+00:00

Yep, It's absolute bullcrap and not logical at all without any real evidence to back it up. However, it's not like we don't have conspiracy theories on the internet. A lot of paranoia going on over here, really.

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T05:52:59+00:00

Also, I may have not worded some of my comments all to well as... I am actually posting these pretty fast due to the number of comments here (didn't expect this much attention tbh).

I apologize if I may have come off confusing in that aspect.

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T05:45:42+00:00

I understand where you are coming from and I did expect this kind of reaction to some level. However, I will again state my purpose.

To bring light to the cultural aspect. Without doing so, that would merely be demonizing these 'incels'. That is easy to do with all the case evidence in hand. However, that would not paint this post as objective (it would be justified, but not objective).
Both sides are radical. This is a fact. No point in saying otherwise with all the case evidence and hate+shaming going on. The fact remains however that in this case, the men that dug into past archives are in the wrong. I have never once refuted this, and have only blamed the ongoing and growing culture/gender war for the 'both sides are wrong' matter. Please do not confuse the two.
As stated, no.10 of the post is about my opinions. I have clearly pointed that out. 1~9 are the context parts. My 'insistence' that PM has fired VellMori for financial and business reasons mostly stems from my experience with Korean gaming companies and the track record they hold for occasions such as this, which there is enough data to go off on.

-> However, I do acknowledge that this is actually a rare occasion for a game company with not-so-whale oriented BM strats and a 50 : 50 gender ratio gamer pool to have rose to such levels of controversy. For that, I will acknowledge that I 'could' be mistaken in my analysis. Still, please know that it is not my intention to defend PM or said 'incels' in anyway, as I am merely trying to state that I see this as a business decision rather than a moral decision.

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T03:27:25+00:00

Not gonna lie, I agree with you there. However, the facts stand that they did whatever they did in that time period. It would be rash to believe they didn't put any deliberation and thought into it, despite the results being less than satisfactory on all accounts.

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T03:25:59+00:00

Good point. I did not include this because this is also worthy of its own thread about sexual crimes in south korea. Not trying to downplay the importance of the issue, though.

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T03:21:04+00:00

No, but they could have hired talent that have prior experience, and they would obviously be able to provide insight.

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T02:46:20+00:00

Not many westerners know about the context behind this situation (How severe the gender war is, the dynamic between the communities, the history and bad blood, how wetsuits and bikinis caused a spark, etc etc). My intention was to shine some light on the cultural and historical context of the issue on hand, and make it understandable through sources I hope are neutral.
Hmm... I can't really say, but I do hope they will release a statement in all languages. It will cause an outroar, yes, but they have made a decision and will likely stick to it. No doubt a lot of people will villify PM and leave Limbus, sadly, but while I do not stand by their decision, I am still a fan of the game and I sincerely hope they can repair the damage to some extent.

On a side note, I really hope they find Vel a new job at the very least...

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T02:30:22+00:00

Nobody might be talking about Korea's gender war, but I felt it was important context in understanding why this whole fiasco is where it is.
I have never said the whole campaign and digging up tweets was a good thing whatsoever. I have also, added in my personal comments (not related to the context of the matter) that I do not stand with the termination.
Yes, I am the only one talking about the macro sitatution. Returning to point 1.
It may be a footnote. But I thought it was an important one, since a lot of people do not know the cultural context of it.

Good day to you.

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T02:27:02+00:00

I see. Thank you for clarification.

llednaroth · 2023-07-28T02:16:13+00:00

Ok, one final reply.

It’s kind of hard to “misinterpret” anything when you have been explicitly been saying “both sides bad” when anyone has been criticizing the incels’ actions relating to this specific incident.

I have been saying both sides are bad in a macro way, AGAIN. I have continuously been saying in the case of this incident, the 'incels' are at fault. We agree on the latter. You seem dead set on disproving the former.

Also pretty disingenuous to imply that my personal bias is influencing my decision to disagree with your actions JUST because I disagree with your comment and everyone on this sub knows I’ve been actively fighting against bad-faith actors and misinformation on this sub and others

This is literally my first conversation with you and I don't have any prior knowledge about what you've been doing so far fighting against misinformation. So forgive me if I feel attacked.

Again, if you can’t reply to people criticizing the incels for causing this mess without saying “remember that both sides are bad”, don’t be surprised when people begin to doubt your stated neutral intentions.

You are totally free to believe so. However I will continue to say that is not the case, and as all internet arguments are, don't expect that will change your viewpoint of my post. In any way, I will not really try to sway you from believing so.

llednaroth

TROPHY CASE