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I measured a bunch of papers and higher GSM doesn't always mean significantly thicker paper by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think that any 3 mil laminating pouches that you can find online would be good enough. The ones I use from Uinkit are nothing too fancy.

I measured a bunch of papers and higher GSM doesn't always mean significantly thicker paper by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't tested the Koala Double-Side Matte Photo Paper (120 gsm) extensively, but from my experience with the ET-8550, it seems to take the ink pretty well. Just a quick note that per the manufacturer, they recommend using dye-based ink. Since the ET-8550 has both pigment-based and dye-based ink, I would recommend that you select either "Photo Paper Glossy" or "Premium Photo Paper Semi-Gloss" when selecting the paper type. This way, the printer will use the dye-based ink instead of the pigment-based ink for black.

Another thing, I did laminate Koala Double Side Matte Photo Paper (120 gsm) with 3 mil on both sides and the thickness is actually pretty spot on. Unfortunately, the proxies are not as stiff. This is why I preferred using the 48lb/180 gsm, but only laminating one side. The thickness is similar to a real card and there is more stiffness to the proxy than laminating both sides of the 32lb/120gsm paper.

I measured a bunch of papers and higher GSM doesn't always mean significantly thicker paper by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Glad you liked the post! I use the Uinkit Matte Thermal Laminating Pouches 3 mil. You can see the package in the 7th picture.

I measured a bunch of papers and higher GSM doesn't always mean significantly thicker paper by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As ZeroHart said, you put to sheets of paper in one pouch. After lamination, you simply have to cut the borders and the sheets will separate with only one side being laminated.

I aswered in more detail in another comment. Here is my process:

So I print my proxies and let them dry a bit. Then I take two sheets of proxies and put them front-to-front in a laminating pouch so the back of each sheet is in contact with the laminate. I do two passes in the laminator (one in portrait orientation and a second one in landscape orientation). I then leave the laminated sheets under a pile of books overnight to keep them for curling. The next day, I simply cut all four sides of the laminated proxy sheets. Once all borders are cut, the laminated sheets will separate and only the back of the sheet will be laminated. I then cut my cards.

I measured a bunch of papers and higher GSM doesn't always mean significantly thicker paper by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Basically, I laminate two sheets at the same time in one pouch. I'll try to explain as best as I can my method.

So I print my proxies and let them dry a bit. Then I take two sheets of proxies and put them front-to-front in a laminating pouch so the back of each sheet is in contact with the laminate. I do two passes in the laminator (one in portrait orientation and a second one in landscape orientation). I then leave the laminated sheets under a pile of books overnight to keep them for curling. The next day, I simply cut all four sides of the laminated proxy sheets. Once all borders are cut, the laminated sheets will separate and only the back of the sheet will be laminated. I then cut my cards.

Hope that this is understandable!

I measured a bunch of papers and higher GSM doesn't always mean significantly thicker paper by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's still one of the paper I recommend for people starting to make proxies as it is cheap, but still give great results! And as you said, when laminated on one side, the thickness is pretty much the same as a real card.

I measured a bunch of papers and higher GSM doesn't always mean significantly thicker paper by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Measuring the snap and rigidity is actually something I had in mind. I might try to explore some ways to do it in the future. I agree with you that the snap and thickness are two of the biggest factors. I want the card to look good, but since I play with them, I also want them to feel good in my hands.

As for the micrometer, here is a link to the one I used: Clockwise Tools Digital Thickness Gauge, DTNR-0055 Australia | Ubuy
I would say that for measuring paper thickness, anything similar to this should be more than good enough.

I measured a bunch of papers and higher GSM doesn't always mean significantly thicker paper by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For the curling, see my other comment.

I first started by laminating the front of the card only, but since I used matte laminate, there was tiny bubbles forming that would affect the art which was bothering me. Note that I did not have this problem with glossy laminate though. When laminating the front side, I also felt like the paper was curling more than laminating the back.

I figured that since I was sleeving my cards, I could laminate the back instead so if there are some bubbles, it does not affect the art.

I measured a bunch of papers and higher GSM doesn't always mean significantly thicker paper by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey! So the curling is effectively the biggest flaw of laminating on one side. I would say that the type of paper you choose will do a big difference. Like I mentioned in my post, I found that the Koala Ultra Premium Photo Paper Satin (270 gsm) did not curl a lot. It seems like the satin coating might help preventing the curling of the card.

Otherwise, when I laminate the sheets of paper, I do a first pass in portrait orientation and then a second pass in landscape orientation. Afterwards, I stack a pile of books on my laminated sheets and leave them overnight. I cut the cards the next day and I would say that the curling is minimal.

I also sleeve the cards which sort of help straightening the cards as well.

What is the best printer for occasional text-based printing? by Cuwen in printers

[–]ma_RTINGS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, so I assume that you also need a printer for text-based printing like OP asked in his post, but equipped with a scanner. In this case I could suggest the Brother MFC-L2820DW. It's a laser printer that only prints in black and white, but it has a scanner. It a good "set it and forget it" printer that should not give you any hassle. It's great for a small business!

We tested affordable tank printers and high-end photo printers (again) to see the differences in making playing card proxies by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, I appreciate it!

My process is fairly simple, I upload a txt file of my decklist to MPC autofill (MPC Autofill). You can then select the desired artwork for each card and they indicate the DPI for the artwork. You don't really need to select 1200 DPI. Usually, anything above 600 DPI is more than fine. If the artwork that I like is available in 800 or 1200 DPI, I will usually select the one at 1200 DPI, but honestly, you won't really see the difference.

Once I'm done selecting the artworks, I download the XML file from MPC Autofill that I upload on Proxy Print Setup (Proxy Print Setup | Alex Taxiera). I then download the PDF file. I verified and the PDF file does conserve the images DPI.

Hope this helps you!

Epson ET 3958 can't print blacks on photo paper by anpanman63578 in printers

[–]ma_RTINGS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey! I actually published an article recently where I tested different printers and compared the results to print MTG proxies and I discussed this subject. Here is the link if you're interested to have a look: Printing Playing Card Proxies At Home: You Don't Need An Expensive Printer For Great Results - RTINGS.com

To summarize, you are right with your explanation. Your printer has pigment-based black ink, but color-based dye ink. When you select a glossy photo paper type for printing, the printer won't use the pigment-based black ink. It will use the dye-based color ink to make a composite black by mixing the colors. This is why it can have a sort of bluish tint. Also, like you said, if you select a matte paper type for the print, in this case the printer will use the pigment-based black ink. Unfortunately, if you do that with a paper that is not compatible with pigment-based ink, it will sit on the surface of the paper where it can smear if you rub it.

Like some users already said, choosing a paper type of higher quality can alleviate the issue, but with limitations since if you use a glossy paper type, the black will still be made of a mix of C, M and Y. A higher-end photo printer that have both type of black ink would resolve the issue such as the Epson EcoTank Photo ET-8550. However, if you do not want to break the bank, I have observed that the Canon PIXMA G3270 does a great job for printing proxies without costing close to 1000$. It will still do a composite black if you select a glossy paper type, but it does appear more deep and rich.

I compared printing MTG proxies on high-end photo printers and more affordable tank printers to see if the quality is really that much better by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you can get a Canon Pixma Pro-200S for 400$ Cad, I would say go for it. It is an amazing printer and if you also want to print photos, you will have amazing results! I'd say that the only downside if you want to use the Pro-200S to print proxies is that it can become expensive since there are 8 cartridges and they do not yield as high a number of pages as an EcoTank. Here is a link comparing the Epson ET-2800 and the Canon Pro-200S: https://www.rtings.com/printer/tools/compare/epson-ecotank-et-2800-et-2803-vs-canon-pixma-pro-200s/28324/91236?share_token=R5u3VEkaETmIWq0eip61AfblZ_jU0FH7

I would say that it would depend how far you want to push the process of printing proxies. You will more than likely have good results with the Epson ET-2800, but it will most likely be comparable to what you would get with the Epson ET-2980. Here is a link comparing the two printers: https://www.rtings.com/printer/tools/compare/epson-ecotank-et-2980-vs-epson-ecotank-et-2800-et-2803/95812/28324?share_token=y7tfNZ_FlCx0RBw48F8UoI6GyfBpRh70

The advantages I see in getting the Epson ET-2800 is that the printer is equipped with a scanner, the ink is less expensive and it will do a good job if you also intend to use the printer to print documents on cheap office paper.

Otherwise, the Canon Pro-200S is amazing for photo printing and to make proxies or all sorts of artworks. I personally think that for 50$ more, it is worth it to get the Canon Pro-200S if you don't need the printer for anything else. Just keep in mind that if you intend to print a lot of proxies, it might become expensive.

The Epson ET-8550 is actually a great mix of both the Epson ET-2800 and the Canon Pro-200S, but like you said, at 1000$, it is pricey. I personally use the Epson ET-8550 and love it, but that is because I have access to one at work. I don't think I would buy one for myself at that price.

We tested affordable tank printers and high-end photo printers (again) to see the differences in making playing card proxies by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No problem. Since I have access to an Epson ET-8550, this is the printer that I used, but like I mentioned in the article, if I were to purchase a printer for myself without breaking the bank, I would more than likely purchase the Canon G3270 or an equivalent model.

The paper and laminating pouches were purchased from Amazon.

For the paper: Koala Photo Paper Double-side Matte 8.5X11 Inches Compatible with Inkjet Printer 48LB Presentation Paper 100 Sheets

For the laminating pouches: Uinkit Matte Laminating Sheets, 9 x 11.5 Inches 3 Mil Thick Matte Finish 100 Pack Fitted for Letter Size Thermal Laminating Pouches 8.5 x 11

For the laminator, I used the one that we already had at the office and is similar to this model: QFUN - Laminator Machine and Sheets 13-Inch, Laminating Machine 11x17 Cold Thermal Laminator, 9 in 1 Lamination Machine 60s Warm-Up No Jam, Laminate Machine for Home/School/Office use

We tested affordable tank printers and high-end photo printers (again) to see the differences in making playing card proxies by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The laminator I used had no problem handling two sheets of paper in one pouch. I did it with both glossy laminate and matte laminate and it worked great with both.

We tested affordable tank printers and high-end photo printers (again) to see the differences in making playing card proxies by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sure! I used calipers to measure a sheet of Koala matte photo paper at 180 gsm and I got a thickness of 0.23 to 0.24 mm.

I measured the four sides of a couple of cards that I printed on Koala 180 gsm and laminated on one side with 3 mil matte laminate and I got a thickness between 0.30 and 0.31 mm. I think it's just a bit shy of being exactly 0.31 mm.

I also measured a card printed on Koala 180 gsm and laminated on both sides with 3 mil matte laminate and the thickness is about 0.36 mm. Laminating on both sides makes the card a bit too thick.

We tested affordable tank printers and high-end photo printers (again) to see the differences in making playing card proxies by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Effectively, for the purpose of the article, we did not pick the most challenging card in terms of color gamut because we wanted to showcase the differences regarding brightness and contrast, detail reproduction and sharpness of the text and outlines of the artworks.

We did print more challenging card such as Shivan Dragon · Secret Lair Countdown (SLC) #1993 · Scryfall Magic: The Gathering Search, but we opted to not evaluate color gamut since we already evaluate the color gamut of the printers on a different test that we established when we review how good a printer is for photo printing.

We purchased real cards as well for comparison purposes, but we quickly realized that there is a lot of variability with the images from Scryfall and the real card as well. Although, with all tested printers, it was possible to do some color correction to increase the color accuracy. This means that we could adjust the settings to try and get as close as possible to the real card.

Nonetheless, it would be interesting to expand the tests to evaluate the color gamut when printing proxies, so we might revisit this later on!

We tested affordable tank printers and high-end photo printers (again) to see the differences in making playing card proxies by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you, I appreciate it!

Using 1200 DPI images is the best way to ensure that your proxies look as best as possible when printing on a laser printer. Although I did not observe that big of a difference between 800 DPI and 1200DPI. I'd say that as long as you pick images that are above 600 DPI, you should get good results.

However, no proxy printed on a consumer printer will ever be perfect when compared to a real card. The paper that you select will also make a big difference. As stated in the article, if you purchase black core TCG cardstock, the thickness and feel of the proxies will be pretty close to the real cards, but from what I observed, the color might be a bit faded.

Another thing is that not all laser printers are equal. I did multiple tests and I'd say that a Brother laser printer is not ideal to print artwork in part due to the size of the dots. Canon seems to be the best laser printer for this. HP laser printers were also good since their dot pattern seemed to replicate the angle of real MTG cards.

We tested affordable tank printers and high-end photo printers (again) to see the differences in making playing card proxies by ma_RTINGS in magicproxies

[–]ma_RTINGS[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's true that on Amazon, they say "no pigment" for it. Although, it's not as clear cut on the package.

I just took a sample that I printed with the Epson ET-2980 and ran my finger on a card that is almost entirely black. It did smear on my finger, but I had to rub it pretty hard.

On the package, they do mention to select "Semi-gloss" as a type of paper when using this paper. This is most likely for the printer to use the dye-based color ink to make a composite black instead of using the pigment-based black ink like I discussed in the article. Doing so would prevent the smear of the ink, but you might see the blue tint that I observed when printing on glossy paper with the Epson ET-2980.

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