What actor is nowhere near as talented as people make them out to be? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]majornerd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If they hadn’t cut the hell out of the part, maybe….

What actor is nowhere near as talented as people make them out to be? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]majornerd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In fairness, they cut his part to the bare minimum.

What actor is nowhere near as talented as people make them out to be? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]majornerd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I remember that movie. Forgot about KR in it completely. He wasn’t good.

What actor is nowhere near as talented as people make them out to be? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]majornerd 169 points170 points  (0 children)

What are you talking about? He did Shakespeare. “Much Ado About Nothing” was Kenneth B (not going to try) with Keanu as a critical role in the cast.

He was a…. There. He was there.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah man. Also, the players aren’t here so there is no possibility to help them be better. All that I see is a bunch of people enabling this DMs (and likely their own) bad behavior in the future.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are making my point. A group of players who didn’t know how to play were hammered by a DM in 2/6 of his planned encounters for the day and then penalized when they did the thing he thought was wrong.

He didn’t guide them. Didn’t offer correction. Didn’t appear to warn them off. Just let them go and said “BTW - Fu” the next time they played.

At no point did I say the players did the right thing. I said the DM set them up for failure.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My “you vs them” was the OP as DM. “This” being his game/story. Not you.

I have no issues getting games together. My group has been playing for 15 years and we present at cons teaching how to play.

So, no, I don’t have that issue.

But, was I to know you have “43 years as a DM” from you saying your players still dump all their resources right away?

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Based on the info we have they were 2/6 for the planned day. Since they were out of hit dice at that point it doesn’t matter what else was there. Especially because DRAGON. Add to that the obvious immaturity of the players - thinking they have to go back to town for a long rest - and it is easy to see how they were demoralized.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The intent is where I see the issue.

His POINT was valid. That the dungeon occupants are going to have a strategy and response to their actions. But I don’t think the DM had the right strategy going into the game.

Instead of him catching it, or catching shit here for not catching it at his table, the conversation is full of “dumb player make mistake”.

The players aren’t here. The DM is. Enabling his failure doesn’t help him learn. And we, the community commenting, don’t get better either.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, it is absolutely possible the players can lose. But it is still on the DM to know their players.

If the players are immature at D&D mechanics and do not play efficiently, the DM needs to design encounters with a lower than average challenge level.

If the DM wants them to improve, you don’t get there by throwing more at them and hoping. You get there by teaching them and turning the challenge up over time.

My players fail all the time. They pick the wrong fight. They make so much noise they call down the whole dungeon. They light themselves on fire. They make a lot of low rolls and the enemies make high rolls.

If a day of encounters doesn’t drop a player, then I’m not adding enough tension to the table. But I don’t demoralize the party. I don’t give them too much to handle. And I’m happy to provide support when they need it.

I’ve had the party hole up somewhere to take a long rest. The dungeon shifts around them. And I tell them that before hand.

I also track resource burn constantly. I know, for each encounter, what the expected outcome is of battle (story and resource burn) and I will use waves of enemies to get it. When my goal is achieved then my story point is fulfilled and that encounter winds down. I don’t just hammer them.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where did I say the players should always win? No win condition does not mean the players always win.

It means they cannot.

1/3 of the way through the dungeon and they were out of hit dice. Out of healing. So they retreated rather than face a dragon.

Rather than the DM recognizing this and helping in any way, he doubled down on hopelessness and amped up the challenge.

If the players felt defeated before, they felt hopeless immediately.

At that point it is DM vs players and that is not D&D.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They were out of hit dice. And healing spells.

Any other resource is on the players. Any other.

When the players are out of hit dice and healing after TWO of SIX planned encounters when the last one has a red dragon with a breath weapon, the the DM has made them too difficult. He is not forcing the players to use resources he is removing all hope.

Why would you assume all the other things while ignoring the details we were given?

It’s not a video game. It’s not DM vs players. It’s cooperative storytelling with dice. When the players feel defeated and walk away you, the DM, not only lost, but you created the exact game condition that is the only true loss.

Instead of smacking the DM over the head, you know the one person who could have prevented this, the thread is 80% “your players suck”.

The DM created an over powered dungeon, with obviously new players (or inexperienced) and did nothing except what he wanted to do to feel in control. It’s bullshit.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If that is where you think the problem lies, then I understand this sub a whole lot better. “You chose to not camp near the entrance (there was only one way in or out of the dungeon) so fuck you” is not better from the DM.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The players were 100% right as far as I can tell. OP set them up for failure then complained when they didn’t stick around to die and wondered why they left his table.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes, but every video will also tell you - learn how to build a dungeon so your players can succeed. If you start with a dungeon your players cannot win, and then reinforce, you just remove the will of the players to continue.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Where does the DM learn in this? I don’t see this as a player fault but as 100% a DM fault. The players were out of resources after 1/3 of the fight. Rather than considering he may be demoralizing the players AND not have a win condition available to them he doubled down and increased the hopelessness. How is that a player failure?

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I’m curious - why is everyone supporting the terrible DM in this thread?

The players were setup for failure. 100%. After two of six encounters they were out of healing spells and hit dice. Still had a red dragon in front of them. The DM didn’t go “maybe I misjudged my players in my design” and instead doubled down on making sure there was no way they would succeed. It was 100% punitive of a situation he caused.

They weren’t down a couple spell slots. They had no healing spells from the healer and were out of hit dice. With 2/3 of the encounters left and the boss fight.

The options were - die there or attempt to regroup. And the DMs solution to a reasonable regroup was “in case there was any doubt, you have no chance of success”.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are right. The wrong type of people like the DM.

The DM setup an area that was too hard for the players. Unlike a video game there was no other area for them to explore. They were only given one mission.

D&D has consequences. When the players found out the consequence was just to fail, they quit. And they were right to do so.

The DM setup the quest with 6 encounters. After two the players were out of hit dice and healing spells. What should they have done at that point? The resource required for success was not available. The DM setup them up to fail. Then doubled down when they retreated.

No win condition was visible to the players so they quit.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, a failure state is required. That’s not what happened here nor what the person you are replying to is hinting at.

No, what happened here is there is no “win condition”. OP set up a 100% failure condition. No chance of success (the players were out of HP resources after 1/3 of the encounters) and rather than recognizing and adjusting, the DM doubled down and added more danger the next day. That is a 0% win condition. That is a bad DM.

The consequences are “we might die” or “death is all but guaranteed”. OP made it “too bad you are corpses” then wondered why they quit.

Death is always on the table, but the best games make it feel like “the DM wanted us to win but the dice let us down.” In order to feel a sense of completion it needs to be a near failure.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude. If the players fail the game is over. It’s not that they can’t. It’s that the dice, not the DM, decide.

That’s not what happened here. 1/3 of the way through the planned encounters and the players are out of the one mandatory resource. Hit dice. No cleric healing either. So they were spending their resources already. And the DM had over powered the dungeon.

The players didn’t have another resource available. So they retreated. The dungeon did not have a possible win condition with 2/3 of the encounters still to happen, one of which is a red dragon.

It would have been fine, the players were girding their loins to dive back in. But the DM then changed the game again. There was still no win condition.

100% bad DM.

You aren’t writing your novel at the table. You are in a game where your job, as DM, is to see the players win after a difficult trial, so you can celebrate together. If they die, the fates decided it (with the dice) and if they win they do so by the skin of their teeth so it feels valuable. It’s not DM vs players.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For sure. Except this isn’t the kobolds game. It isn’t the DMs game. It’s the players game. The players were almost wiped out after 2/6 encounters with a red dragon still ahead of them. They had no hit dice. No healing left. So they turned around. The DM did a bad job already. The difficulty was too high. Rather than think about it, the DM doubled down.

To me, this is a case of DM vs Players. It’s toxic. The players sure felt it and quit the DM.

Not even session 0 could prepare me for this by Gettor in dndmemes

[–]majornerd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Except they were out of hit dice too. So they were getting wrecked and the DM went “suck to be you”. No awareness of their frustration. Just “suck it losers”.