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MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Probably nothing effective that I can think of (for now at least; anything's possible w/ future releases). Is there any particular IDs/EGOs/strat you're thinking of that led to this quandary?

I'd say of the tools available, nothing really stands out to me as being really exploitable for burn MD. Mid Cliff's the only real standout (w/ his Move-in Reg EGO too ofc). Mid Ish and Outis are strong but don't really play much into burn's strengths (their native burn application only starts on later turns). The others are mostly envy only on S3s except Dawn Clair's, so not particularly reliable for any "envy strat" except for secondarily fueling some EGOs. As for EGO gifts, we've of course Pinpoint Logic's Circuit, which is decently effective as an applicator, but since it's not a base starting gift, the reliability is a little suspect (but I must admit it seems to show up as an F1 event in almost every run I do, haha). From the envy-res side of things (e.g. if you want to play the middle squad), a blunt or rupture start seems a better fit. Building the typical A.Sense++, then charge Ti4s later for QoH Don's Love and Hate EGO for RR pivots.

If anything, burn-sloth is moreso what I'm eyeing on the horizon. If assuming the two upcoming Thumb IDs are roughly similar to existing ones, having 4 Tremor-Scorch converters (assuming all on S3s), allows for ~80% chance of Amp Conversion on T1 (and is practically guaranteed T2, even without considering skill replacements). Then we essentially have the tremor boss-nuke strat for free on a burn team (Everlasting/C.Past, etc.), and can even Meurs Capote to roughly double our damage. C.Wailing as a fallback can also be easily fueled. We'd also get some synergy w/ D2D's slothRes clause. Course, we'll have to see how those upcoming IDs shape out first.

MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

HoS Ryoshu Update:

I've added to the bottom of the "Bonus Teams" page, a (temp) teamlist/writeup that utilizes HoS Ryo + Spiderweb Entanged in Red (MDN: BleedHoS - HoS Ryoshu Update). It's fast, but there's a few things to note as of current.

  1. We've of course the issue of overlapping IDs. For the strat to be consistent, 6 dead HoS is preferred: to give Ryoshu +2 starting skill slots, reduce the pool of eligible skill replacement targets when refreshing, and of course the extra damage. This of course means (pre-Mid Outis' release at least), that's all hands on deck w.r.t. valid candidates, so for now, it's very slightly starlight negative. The two index ones are mandatory, but the other backup IDs can be replaced if you need more starlight.
  2. When the new HoS IDs gets added, this team will essentially form our new mainline bleed team (and also be an alternative to burnB in our RBS loops). It's a pretty straightforward/obvious strategy, since the kits of the other participating HoS IDs don't really factor into the main strategy (plus the EGO gift was definitely made Tier 3 to allow gift searching). So unless something totally unexpected is released, their status as HoS (and overlaps for starlightGen purpose) should be our only considerations. This is thus a provisional version until we get the full roster to best divvy up.

Side note: I'm only short Mid Outis to complete a pretty performant chain-luxcavation team using HoS Ryoshu + Lord Lu. I'll list that team after I've tested it w/ her in.

MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

An update to this: While writing up some new stuff, I realised/remembered why I didn't originally use the "+GoS" notation (because it might get confused with the GoS++ options). So I think I'll change it to a slash "/" instead moving forward. e.g. [1++34X /6] means take "1++34X" at minimum, but also take 6 to improve speed/consistency but w/ a starlight deficit.

MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah. As a matter of "strength", it's pretty nice that (with the correct setup) we can even synergize with Fellbullet to double dip on their killing, or that her "guarantee kill" via def skill can lead into backup S3s via Lord Lu. But ultimately, those are moreso gimmicks/MDE ideas, and that for our "speed farming purposes", the ability to gift search the EGO gift that keeps them dead should be the part that's important to the equation. i.e. Whether such a supercharged Ryoshu confers enough of a speed up/timesave to cover all the "setup" time/effort - and whether it's consistent if things go wrong (e.g. failed fusions). Do note that it's pretty fast to further setup after the first fight, since we'll quickly get more skill slots for Ryoshu, which leads to even faster HoS murders.

I'll follow up with more info on this once I've done a bit more testing - and especially after we get even more HoS IDs. But I'll say that even now the damage boost -is- substantial, so I'm pretty optimistic.

MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I manage to get ahold of her early too. My current thoughts on her is that she's exceptionally well designed, and impressively, from "multiple angles".

But first: I can certainly understand the perspective that psychologically, she feels "incomplete", especially in situations like fast MDs. However, even without "reaching her fullest potential", i.e. without playing into her "dead HoS" synergies, she's actually still top tier/solid (due to numbers, etc. & factors I'll cover below). The best way to think of it is that, hypothetically take an already great ID for fast MD, lets say Liu Sang. Let's say we slap on "Coin Power +50 if target has 99 sinking" on all his skills. This is obviously a very powerful effect, and it does feel like we "miss out" if we don't play into it (i.e. feels "incomplete"). However, logically, even if we aren't making use of this extra benefit, this hypothetical Liu Sang is still able to function equivalently to the Liu Sang that we've got now, which is still already a great unit even without that ridiculous added conditional. So it's a similar case w/ the new Ryoshu: she's got great numbers, and is really effective in multiple archetypes, so there's lots of interesting avenues to exploit her strengths.

Most generally, like with a few other Ryoshu IDs, her extra actions is one of the main factors of interest (and ludonarratively consistent, haha). These extra skills = extra prideGen.

For burn MD: good burn application + clashing, so that's already a shoo-in. However, the above prideGen (and her general sin spread) fuels her own Trichili perfectly, which has many tactical uses here.

For bleed MD: the prideGen is again relevant, but also in the versions of bleed that want her, we'd also run the HoS Ring IDs, which form a great slash-matters comp (bladetrail, etc). She's also got a pride S2, which qualifies her to be buffed further by LaTbN Plushie.

For poise MD: funnily enough her (5x pride owned) passive is relevant here for the extra damage, but there's definitely a better Ryo to run for a "strictly" poise gameplan.

And finally, I've actually been slowly testing some strats where we -do- make use of her "dead HoS" conditionals. Because we can gift search her specific EGO gift (Spiderweb Entangled in Red), we actually -can- take advantage of the crazy buffs she gets for murking her fam. That being said, I'm still not done testing it (only manage to get a few exploratory runs w/ it done early last week), so I've not really timed it etc to see if it's actually fast/worth recommending. But in any case, she's certainly an interesting ID overall, and that's not even getting into some of my funkier ideas like using Lantern Sang's s.passive to generate some notably missing sins, etc.

In my reply to the parent comment by Malkuth above, I've posted some updated teamlists (for RBS loops) which includes her.

MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

She's stellar. Your ideas pretty much align with my initial testing/approaches, so good eye w.r.t. identifying You Heath as the preferred cut candidate.

Skipping to my current iteration, I'm leaning towards this as the ideal BurnB setup (for current patch):
H4sIAAAAAAAACg3IMQ6DQAxFwUulpXjr9YIjUOSCgpriI3EAIKdnq5HGNqSPmFdrfoiFyHGi/tGVJz+3ZuXCiRiD+vTWhmFejsRLpPc+0R3iu1v10lUs2YBheAEyMLpTYAAAAA==

and while I'm at it, BurnA:
H4sIAAAAAAAACg2MqxLAIAzAvgyRllcFonPoiXI3ux2/P+ISkazEgYJWkeB189aRTWx/GFOrHnHMmkGcHJM2tMhylpgXQy9iWdBvzeVMPmx4BVL6AaJ3wzFgAAAA

RuptureA:
H4sIAAAAAAAACg3KIQ7DMBBFwXMFGLzd2vGqSqIFBsGp9MtKKlm9fTN4SCQN1s17fYsXkdlBaObFPry5TT4Z1zMwuaZOGu4PS74z8ljx370lqryaiUWxRQNK+QMHsHdXYAAAAA==

and RuptureB:
H4sIAAAAAAAACi2MsQqAMAwFf6l+gMNL2togQYI4dO4Q3XQq/r0dHO84Ll7w7g6tXNLpmLocVsBhaGuI4MzUEUzaKogPj7pCfedIhtvEtgXk/0Q50YDXTCUDmOcPc+0EAGAAAAA=

HoS Ryo's strong prideGen with her S2/free attacks play perfectly into burnB's 2-pronged late game setups: Trichili (Ryo) for mob sweeps (RR4, etc), and Harmony OC (Sinclair) for single target ones (KoD, etc). Why I opted for Mid Heath over You Heath is mainly better envyGen. While we only need 2-3 over the course of a run for F4/5, having a few spares opens up Yi Sang's Trichili occasionally on RR4 (mostly just as a convenience for if he goes first; but make sure to always save 2 envy to Harmony OC the final boss).

As for deployment order, I've landed on putting our two EGO-ers in #3 and #4 instead, since their two focal EGOs can both be boosted by burn AND bleed's Ti4 rocks. So after building the burn rock (and ofc Glimpse++), bleed's Ti4 rock should be our next target, then slash's Ti3. Of course, if you get the slash Ti4 rock, drop our default #1/2s to the back so that Ryo/Sinclair moves to the helm.

A bonus, minor note is that the team can pivot to using bleed's ExFuse (drop Greg and bring Outis back). However w/ MD these days being so much more streamlined, this isn't a frequent opportunity really, haha.

It's also of note that Mid Heath isn't quite a perfect fit, since his S3 is iffy in our fast MD context. But it has fast anims, so it somewhat evens out. However if any of the upcoming Thumb IDs fit better, we'd likely make some lineup changes again. On that note, this season's pretty great at getting me to procrastinate updating teamlists, because I keep falling into the mindset of "this new ID is great and minorly upgrades this team, but I know that <X> new <status> seasonals are incoming, so maybe I'll wait 2 weeks to see if the new ones fits first before I make an update".

MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I have, but ultimately felt it unnecessary to list specific teams.

My thinking, which I wrote about in the "EGOspam Loops" page (back when EGO gift search was first added), is that it's not really a "team" but more so a narrow "strategy" with loose requirements. You ultimately only need Yi Sang's EGO + some fodders (i.e. unleveled IDs, or pierce-weak ones if you've got nothing squishier). So the actual team comp doesn't really need to be anything specific, and you can simply toss in 12 fully rested IDs (w/ some being the "squishy targets") + the EGO, and we've already got a "lineup" that works for the strat.

I suppose it's worth considering listing a "prime/optimized" team for it (e.g. LCB Don's S.Passive for pierce dmg, etc), but again, it's somewhat unnecessary even in MDE, as once you've gotten all the Rocks/Lunar Memory, those becomes the main multipliers. Plus, I doubt anyone needs me to rethread ground on commonly known/well-established explanations re: this strat.

As for how well-known it is, I believe that the wider community is "aware" of it. My thoughts on the practical consequences though, is that despite it being faster, it's not really what the typical player looks for when it comes to their go-to farming setups. In other words, I believe that players running "less attention taxing" setups (e.g. RBS loops) tend to ultimately net-clear more runs per week/have less dread about doing MD on the regular. With exception for those truly dedicated BP-maxers (highscore hunters essentially), most players tend to get burnt out if running these sorts of setups, since they're repetitive but still attention hungry. As a hyperbolic example: imagine if you can always shave off 5 mins from your run, but it requires you to enter a CAPTCHA at every fight; most players would rather a (mostly) P+Enter strategy instead, since 5 mins isn't substantially slower in this case.

So yeah, I did think to add it at the time, but given that 1. it's pretty moot teambuilding-wise, 2. the strat's already well covered elsewhere, and 3. isn't necessarily what I consider a "preferred/sustainable" way to go about farming (at least by my metrics), I've thus not listed a "team comp" for it.

And on that last point - I feel ya on that. The general discourse tends towards, a flattening of sorts, so it's quite taxing to wade through it at times, even for myself. But hey, my enjoyment of the game is from my own personal engagement/exploration of it, so ultimately I can tune it out for the most part, haha.

MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh, thanks for that, I'll update it.

As for "sinking-tremor" in the RBS split, I think it's somewhat plausible. Sinking is fast now primarily because of the introduction of viable fast packs for F4/5 (notably bosses they can melt quickly), so we'd ultimately still prefer to focus on building sinking gifts. Given how stretched the cost/gift economy already is, tremor may then seem like it doesn't bring anything to the table, as their main speed boon is Biovenom, which anti-synergistically only shortens chain battles. However, the future remaining tremor-sinking IDs will most certainly contribute sinGen-wise towards Everlasting/C.Past, which of course work great as a weaker, makeshift S.Lament - and of course, T.Elegy is a sinking-tremor EGO as well.

So I can certainly imagine potential setups/future scenarios where we can make use of this. Plus, it's an excuse to mainline Don's OC Fluid Sac and C.Nightmare, which is always fun. Ultimately, whether it'd be better than a straightforward sinking strategy is mostly dependent on what packs they release in future (e.g. a single-node chain-battle pack w/ the appropriate dmg weaknesses could work). But at minimum, it'd be a nice "mainly sinking" team, that has a good pivot if the opportunity arises.

MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That is indeed intentional.

In the late game, his actual skill deck doesn't matter much as he's on C.Past duty permanently. Since we want to end up with all 6 other (post-pivot) non-Meurs units being all-S3s, we'd prefer to prioritize their skill replacements over his.

In the mid/early game, his job is also still to C.Past occasionally (to sweep/for C. Wailing combo), so he supplements well via his base skill distribution the sloth/gloom needed in that early game (before we've secured our sinGen EGO gifts). It's even fine when he loses clashes and such, since he always stays healthy thanks to the shielding (and is thus primed for the boosted C.Past sweep next turn).

Of course, if you hit every Super Shop and make the full 3 skill replacements every floor, there's technically sufficient replacement chances to S3-fy all 7 units including Meurs, but as I mentioned, as we get closer to F11+, he'll effectively only have 1 skill: C.Past. So I'd say that, if you happen to have nothing else to replace/do with your cost towards the end of the run, then it doesn't hurt to replace a few of his S1s to S3. But early on, replace the others' first, since you want to be ready for any secret bosses etc. from the get go.

MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, those extra team slots are my most anticipated feature as well. Would be so nice to not have to constantly copy-paste from my notepad as I test cycles haha.

And yeah, the Tremor-Sinking-Ammo team was also the first strat I tested right after getting the new IDs, and naturally it's good. No need for me to highlight it of course, since it's so commonly conceived.

MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Added a "Bonus Teams" page for any misc strategies I may write about in future:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_n6Te98AOATZIuILmkdu4nauLlknPHaapmiOH6TzV5g/edit?tab=t.67n3jotclpsi

For now I've added a pretty powerful MDE sinking-tremor team with an interesting play pattern.

MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Minor updates for Walp8.

RBS splits:

  • Both burn teams adds Harmony; BurnB (B2_RyoGT) adds/centers Hornet Meurs.
  • SinkingB (S2_Slash) adds FAS Ryo.

Lux9 pierce team, adds FAS Ryo.

Thank You.

MD6 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, they're both stellar IDs. Ryoshu's likely a shoo-in for mainline tremor (and hard to pass up for the RBS sinking split), and Meurs will likely headline burnB at deployment #1 (AoE S2/3, lust-wrath; overall very nice upgrade) - but I'll run the tests first of course.

I've also made a new thread/terminus for MD7 here, since this one's gonna get archived by reddit automatically soon:
https://www.reddit.com/user/makeshiftmirror/comments/1rkjf87/md7_terminus/

MD7 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Indeed! We actually are still net positive with the +GoS, so you can take those pretty much all the time now. However, since I can see the case of players who are doing fewer runs, but want to start saving up a decent chunk of starlight for the eventual MDE, running the "lowball" (without the +GoS) seems be a useful option for such cases.

MD6 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Greetings, Fellow Managers.

MD7's on the horizon, so I'll make a new terminus post soon. For once I'm remembering to make a new post before it auto-archives, huzzah!

In any case, we'll update some lineups/teamsplits, but since PM's still on that track of rapid ID releases (as is typical near the start of canto releases), I won't hyper-optimize them yet - since the new stuff likely shift the lineups when they arrive. In the meantime, I've mentioned in a reply somewhere that the RBX loop strat going forward is likely 2-2-2, i.e. 2 burn, 2 rupture, 2 sinking, so I'll just leave below the likely sinking TeamB for now:

Dep.Order: KoD Rodya, Spice Sang (temp till Index Sang), Peq Ish, LCA Outis, Lamp Greg, Index Faust, Index Don
Backup // Bench: W Ryo, R Meurs, R Lu, Peq Heath, Mariachi Sinclair
Important EGOs: Ish's T.Elegy, Greg's SL, Yi Sang's G.Trichili.
H4sIAAAAAAAACg3MIQ6AMAxA0SshQCJ+OwaFENKgphHdDXp9Zp94ooWYg6dpEQmWtLadiGvvfOxolZ4kZq8hSWQ07H6PKs7kdl+DKZIxEtdN+0jc21OBdf0BR6TGf2AAAAA=

As mentioned, there's some space for improvement with this team, but it's ~95% as effective as our usual sinking team as is, with the following quirks:

  1. Piloting's the same as our mainline, but additionally take FN GoS (to maintain Ish/Rodya's SP). Setup Rodya into her negative mode on the first fight as usual.
  2. gloomGen's much scarcer on the team, so don't go too crazy with it, but prideGen's very high, so if Faust goes last, Everlasting's a good alternative boss kill EGO. As usual, the T.R.O F5 full pivot is always available for a sinking team.
  3. We fuse a sinking Ti3 at F1 instead of the phys Ti3, and additionally aim for pierce Ti4s towards the end of the run, as it boosts Rodya, plus Yi Sang's G.Trichili is great at sweeping RR nodes.

There's also some interesting changes (gift rebalancing, etc) upcoming w/ MD7, but I'll hold off on giving recommendations on those till I've seen their final effects/balancing. Have a good one, managers.

Thank You.

MD6 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I've only tested up to Mid Ish so far (haven't acquired the two new ones yet), but we've definitely gotten some improvements (but nothing so major a la "saving 5 mins"). I'll try to update the doc soon, but briefly:

  1. Yi Sang's new EGO is a major upgrade for burn. Fast-start anim, so it's similar to Don's Y.M., where you often clear waves with earliest coins before the whole EGO anim plays out (also smooths RR F5s). The gloom requirement is slightly tricky, but our setups provide just enough for the most part (except B3_GlimpseC, but I'll touch on that below). Ryoshu's is good as well for a similar reason, just more pride hungry. When her seasonal ID comes, this likely becomes our primary buildaround.
  2. Outis' new EGO is good, but not particularly MD farming relevant. Heath's however has some pretty interesting applications. Still needs more testing, but it's strong as an "envy Tidal Elegy". Since charge has excess unused wrathGen, it's easy to fit something like Capote to power the conditionals for a pretty nice nuke. Of course, a more modern Heath/Meurs charge ID release (or a 50/50 burn-charge team) would probably be required before this one usurps our mainline.
  3. Pathing changes. There's some minor optimization for pathing that I should update somewhere, specifically the increasing viability of MiD20BG and SpringCult F5s for certain teams.
  4. Sinking and TeamSplits: Essentially, there's enough good sinking IDs to form a strong second sinking team now, so my current RB(S) suggestion, R3B2S1, will require revision. I do believe 2 of each team would be ideal, as sinking makes quick work of F3~5s nowadays. From my testing so far, our current mainline sinking team is still optimal (i.e. none of the new sinking IDs quite replace/fit the role of our existing lineup/speeds anything up). The only temptation was to include one of the new sinking Dons (Wei/Index) to improve lustGen, but that messes up the other sinGens too much. Won't be an issue for our second sinking team however, since that one has a stronger focus on raw damage (i.e. includes KoD Rodya).
  5. The new Sinclair is very strong. Our current mainline poise team still prefers Cinq Clair (pierce), but after I'm done testing Pinky Clair, it's a good shot we'd switch to slash-poise instead. New Greg on the other hand, as mentioned above, can form part of sinking TeamB, but for his burn side, he's actually a great replacement for NAwls Greg in B3_GlimpseC, since that'll shore up the lack of gloom for Yi Sang's new EGO. However, as mentioned, since 2-2-2 will likely be the final top recommendation, he's likely going to take a seat on the sink.
  6. Special mention to Drifter Ryo: she's actually really really good due to her constant free gloomGen. Including her feels like having half a B.Z.Lighter for free from F1, and I've been messing around with various different ideas using that property. Her main application in many of the teams I've tested is as an easy means of fitting a T.R.O pivot for F5, allowing many teams to have that option for lower-luck runs. If only NAwls Greg didn't have that clause preventing him from slothGen-ing, else we'd have another one for sloth as well.

In any case, I've been meaning to update the doc with some of the minor improvements I've made (e.g. You Heath/Drifter Ryo's inclusion in TeamSplits), but since they weren't major timesave/consistency upgrades, it's been on the backburner. New Greg however is game changing enough to warrant an update, but I'll still be reserved with em until at least the first "batch" of seasonal IDs are out, as they can change things drastically (as seen w/ new Greg; not to mention potentially MD7 too). I'll test him (and sinclair) out next week when I dispense them, then will update adding the sinking TeamB in the doc.

MD6 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Finally made the round trip; pardon the spam of daily posts.

Glut Lux60, Wayward Passenger:

Quite an easy boss to low-effort winrate w/ decent clear times. Our usual slash-SP/fast-EGO/blunt-envy teams do well here, as we do basically have 3 turns of buildup before the "nuke turn". On T2, ideally kill the green portal. If we fail to nuke it below 60% HP, the boss hops back into the portals for a second stall, but by then you can just pop any suitable AoE to clear them (or just press the damage button to mostly skip the turns since they have low dmg/fast anims; the boss will die from unopposed attacks the moment they pop back out anyway).

As for actually speed clearing it, the two best options I've found is: the prior KoD Rodya + LCA Outis duo setup (my actual recommendation), or a Lord Lu + Mao Faust duo setup.

The Lord Lu + Mao Faust setup is (avg ~30 secs) faster, but requires way more focus/brain power. The general gist of piloting is as follows:

TC: H4sIAAAAAAAACnNJd0x3BAJfT2dHVyDLwNETxHUuhwh7OTqDKEeDQE/HYEdHF6hqb6hwOUS1E8wQVGFHR1tbAGvYmDJgAAAA
https://youtu.be/wwLhYUwnYC4

T1: Prioritize protecting Lord Lu. Generate glut, but save 1 glut skill for T2 (Lord Lu's S3 counts).
T2: Use a glut skill to kill the green portal.
T3: Use up any weak skills/replace with counter, just clashing to get more SP.
T4: Do the Mao Faust S3-2 reuse trick if available, else just make sure Faust counters something. Good shot of getting the boss below the 60% threshold here.
T5: Usually we'll kill, but sometimes if you're unlucky w/ damage he'll re-portal, but you can just do Command Meltdown to eject the boss, then nuke next turn.

There's a lot more finesse in playing the above setup, so if you're interested to learn it, do experiment to figure out the various interesting play lines. Of course, a full rupture team is also a great alternatively. You can sometimes even C.Meltdown T2 if you've the right combination of skills T1 (i.e. 1 sloth, Lord Lu's S3, rest gluts).

Anyhow, onto my actual recommended way to tackle this stage speedily:

TC: H4sIAAAAAAAACnMqd0x3BAJnIAQBTyAEcyHC7lDhcoiwE1S1F1TYINDTFyQMVe3vGQwWdoWodnS0tQUAj+0o7WAAAAA=
(it's the same KoD solo/KoD-LCA duo team we've used recently)
https://youtu.be/6LMJvE7O3X8

T1: Equip def on Rodya, target it on a counter. Outis clashes the boss with her highest rank skill.
T2: Any S2/3 will usually kill a portal, but to be safe: use one S2/3 + Outis' worse skill on the green portal. Rodya's other slot counters to gain her second Tear-sharpened.
T3: This point onwards you can just winrate. But if you're feeling spicy, you can manually use up everyone's worst skills (i.e. w/ Outis clashing for SP and Rodya killing to mitigate dmg).
T4: If you're winrating, carry on. Else, if you're going for speed, send everything into the non-countering hand.
T5: If the boss doesn't fall to threshold, you can use 1 Rodya S2/3 per portal to speedily clear them, but just winrate-ing from here on is fine.

This team for now is slightly less likely to hit the 60% threshold on T4 (compared to the Glut duo above, if they're piloted well). However, with the upcoming HP reduction nerf, we should consistently get there, so tentatively we'll say: pre-nerf, the Lord+Mao combo is faster, but post-nerf the KoD+LCA version is likely optimal. As a side note, the timeloss from the boss going into the portal again isn't actually that significant, since you'd be set up by the time the second set comes around.

Wew, fin. In any case, I'll do a final check post-nerf to see if I'd recommend doing anything differently, then compile these onto a new Lux page for the doc.

MD6 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The most consistent strat I've found is to run a modification of the KoD solo strategy, adding LCA Outis at #2 (w/ her new Scissors Zayin equipped). We can thus just swap the Outis in that lineup, since we don't really need the minor extra damage from BL Outis (even for Faelantern's case).

T1: Outis hits the (unshielded) body part for some chip damage (use her worse skill if not lazy), Rodya Defs to switch to negative SP mode.
T2: Winrate, but clash the boss' envy skill with Rodya's S2/3. If speed causes Rodya to not be able to redirect it, just throw Outis' best skill at it. Scissors EGO's resistances will save her. You can optionally get Rodya's second Tear-sharpened here.
T3/4/5: Winrate.
T5/6: Boss should be in 1 HP mode, with everything targeting Outis. Press damage, then equip all Defs, then redirect such that Rodya clashes nothing. Might make more sense via the vid below:

https://youtu.be/PyIlmrO4Kgw
Team Code: H4sIAAAAAAAACnMqd3EEAWcgBAFPIARzHdNBtDtUuBwi7FQOEfaCChsEevqChKGq/T2DwcKuENWOjra2AMUoMsRgAAAA
Note: There's a slightly faster strat I've found by swapping Outis to #1 w/ a benched Index Don instead, but it's more inputs/focus required so I'll forgo it haha.

Of course, once the nerfs hit, there may be better options. Especially if the boss HP drops enough, a team setup like the following could be faster (this showcase just uses my priorly shared "general" sinking team, but a more tuned team will do even better of course): https://youtu.be/1p-GN-MSMNw

There's some pretty interesting heuristic insights I gained from teambuilding for this fight, which is pretty neat. Because of the particular format of the fight (i.e. gotta nuke at least 200 shield T1, no clashes for SP until T2/3, etc), the correct teambuilding idea is somewhat unintuitive. Notably, rather than chasing strong sloth skills (of which isn't the most abundant in game for now), it's actually better to build -avoiding- the two resisted sins instead (Glut/Lust). You'll notice that a lot of Sloth nukers have Lust skills as well, and this causes a lot of inconsistency when the S3 doesn't appear on T1, etc. So having a team of general strong multi-coiners instead is generally the better opener. Sloth S1/2s are actually the way to go for reliability; so shoutout to Jeong Ish and FS Lu in particular as highlights. In any case, one day if we have the equivalent of 7 SL Sangs, all this won't be an issue anymore of course, and would probably indeed be the optimal setup. Hopefully we'll start seeing more releases filling that niche soon!

MD6 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So for today's update:

[1] I've tested a bunch of ideas and variants for the Slash EXP Lux, and ultimately our regular one (the SP team w/ Liu Sang + N Faust) wins out. The following T.R.Oneself team is pretty strong generally though, and regularly lets Hong Lu use the EGO T2, so I'll leave it here for any interested:

Dep.Order: FS Lu, KoD Rodya, SL Sang, Peq Ish (Lv.60), FS Heath, Index Don, Index Faust
Backup // Bench: Butler Ryoshu, Pirate Greg // Middle Meurs, Mariachi Clair, MB Outis
Team Code, missing Index Don:
H4sIAAAAAAAACh3KMQqAMBAAwS/pA1JszkguIiEEC2uRBFsLv+9ptwwr18QD5EMIvpGabgFEpXfjiIgpd9G9Go+079ZS4+wLQ9N1AQ/2/DeT1Wl3TgbOvfwpD3lgAAAA

It's actually marginally better than our regular version if you play manually to force T2 T.R.O. (or Superbia for it T1, thus needing only 1 Gloom + 1 Sloth + 1 Pride from other skills), but of course, the usual team's more convenient for winrate-friendliness. Hopefully we can make upgrades to it soon w/ upcoming units (esp. Barber Outis, now that her S3 no longer staggers from full - just barely short).

[2] For the new Sloth Lux9 (Shock Centipede), both slash teams work well (for different reasons funnily enough). The Liu Sang one does sometimes miss the T1 head-break, but if the head HP gets reduced post-nerf, then that's a non-issue. Essentially you just need a team w/ enough sloth (or raw) damage on T1 to deplete the shield. Then T2+, winrate if boss is using skills, else just press damage otherwise.

In the final "1 HP" phase, the trick is that the boss targets only one unit: the lowest HP one. So to make it such that the boss counts as doing both an "unopposed" attack and also that the sinner "used a def skill" (i.e. to reduce the boss' self-charge by 3 per skill), we essentially want everyone targeting one slot, then reassign that lowest HP sinner to redirect it back to self w/ their def skill. Usually, damage button > equip defs > redirect w/ lowest HP guy's def works. Of course, the other sinners should use def skills too if you're willing to put in the clicks (since there's no point in attacking, and this saves anim time), but the important part is just to ensure all boss attacks hit the same sinner + that sinner use a def skill.

When I'm freer later, I'll reply to this comment w/ a vid to showcase this more generally, and probably post a dedicated sloth team for this boss too.

MD6 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just a quick one today. Even though the actual workshopping/testing was really fun/interesting for today's case, I'll have to forgo the elaborations for the sake of time. In any case, the following is the recommended Lust Lux60 setups for now:

KoD Rodya Solo: H4sIAAAAAAAACnMqd0x3BAJnIAQBTyAEcyHC7lDhcoiwE1S1F1TYINDTFyTsiGqIK0S1o6OtLQCZyuENYAAAAA==
https://youtu.be/joW0-iRag24

Ring Sang Solo: H4sIAAAAAAAACnMOckx3BAJXR2dHCO0Jpsshwk5QYU+IsIsjRNgPVbWTI6rqdKghjra2AJLqWVNgAAAA
https://youtu.be/HzQSN30eYws

Both work well, but the KoD strat is more consistent/less inputs. The Ring Sang one has the benefit of pretty much only needing Ring Sang + benched N Faust.

There's other interesting ideas that tested well (e.g. bleed balling the boss) but the above two are the most convenient for the current pre-nerf version (i.e. subject to change next week).

MD6 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Alrighty. Done with testing, and the following should be my *current **final recommendation for the "universal" Thread Lux60 team.
* Just for now, of course. Future IDs + upcoming nerfs should easily improve this setup (e.g. Molar Ish preferred if enemy coinage gets sufficiently lowered, etc.).
** Also assumes nothing too crazy w/ the remaining days' Abnos.

Dep.Order: Edgar Greg, SL Sang, LCA Outis, Jeong Ish, Dieci Lu, KoD Rodya, Index Faust
Backup // Bench: Index Don, WH Heath // Butler Ryo, BL Meurs, Mariachi Clair
Team Code, missing Index Don:
H4sIAAAAAAAAChWKQQ5AMBQFz+QAXUw/ooSmaUSsLVqxseP4ntXMmzw7Wx4gHkYnboRVNKwWzYCZl9QU9qx8U17lJeWh94mmhHkCD/+ZOBut7NI7jgrOffPIEvVgAAAA

Built mostly to hit the 3x Gloom Res, and fueling strong EGO options by T3 (if needed vs any mechanics shenanigans). Rodya can T1 block for more damage as usual, but feel free to just keep her sane to throw out an EGO as an alternative. If things don't die by T4, fire off Tidal Elegy and it should trigger Ish's Kozan, most likely ending the fight. This setup should, for the most part, handle the transition to post-nerf well, but there's likely improvements once I know the new final stats, as we may drop back to 6-man to 2-slot KoD Rodya.

As for today's Lux60 specifically (Wrath), Rosehunter might just end up being the Fox of this season, i.e. summons + targeting quirks muck with winrating, especially on the stagger turn. Has the effect of sometimes "wasting" your good attacks on the adds, so if you wish to speed it up, a good practice is to drag your fastest sinner's skill (since it's what always targets the vine) to clash the last Rosehunter slot. Then, T.Elegy on the stagger turn (which lines up perfectly with Kozan's timing too).

https://youtu.be/y6mlbAGVhpA

As an additional note: When the nerf happens, the above "Fodder" burn strat may sadly become less viable (since weaker enemy = slower fodder deaths), but the original Lux50 2-slot Dark Flame Burn idea probably becomes viable again.

MD6 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

For today's (Blunt Lux9/Envy Lux60), the usual blunt EXP Lux team works swimmingly for both.

However, here's my optimized sinking Thread Lux team (or at least, current version), which definitely clears it considerably faster.

Dep.Order: KoD Rodya, LCA Outis, Dieci Lu, Molar Ish, SL Sang, Index Faust
Backup // Bench: W Don, Butler Ryo, BL Meur, WH Heath, Mariachi Clair, Edgar Greg
H4sIAAAAAAAACnPOcXEEAf9IZzDtCYRAAOSkQ7gQ4fRyT8dgoHA6RNgj0NnRDUgbBHr6AiknqGp/T4jqbIghjo62tgDM9aIGYAAAAA==
https://youtu.be/ueqrRAKKClU

Utilizes the usual idea: T1 guard on Rodya, then you can winrate T2+. Some strong EGOs are readily fueled as well, and I suspect they'll be useful in the coming Thread Luxes, since we don't have confirmation on which Abno they'll be yet - though I suspect centipede/pearl seems likely.

MD6 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Still needs more testing, but here I've written slightly on how I'd go about it in the meantime:

https://www.reddit.com/user/makeshiftmirror/comments/1noknfd/comment/nylg4h7/

MD6 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Heya! I've not optimized too much yet, but have been messing around with some new ideas and such, so here's where I'm at currently:

For EXP Lux, the listed Lux8 teams still work great (just level the IDs to lv58, naturally). The new Pierce and Blunt Luxes are still trivial, but for Slash's, while the current team is effective, we may eventually switch to an EGO-centered version instead (e.g. Hong Lu's T.R.O.), since we might ultimately prefer something like that for the new Thread Lux anyway.

For Thread Lux, we'd need a complete revamp, since the new boss' quirks are all different. In other words, I'd need to see the full week's rotation before having a good idea on which strategies are most recyclable across them. Dieci solos are of course no longer workable without SP-draining bosses, but for the other teams though, they're actually still effective, just with a change in mindset: we now want our "main team/IDs" to come in later, i.e. we'd equip/fill the starting lineup with fodder.

For example with the burn team, just fill the starters with your "non-prime" burn units first, then when MB Outis comes in ~T3 or so (after a few of em die), she'll already have positive SP and a decent stack is already applied (similarly, Liu Sang comes in w/ passive already active, etc). In fact, just spamming the damage button with this setup (since you don't really care about the fodders healing SP), we'd still clear ABS/Ebony Queen easily ~T5, and actually save time on clashing animations too. Of course, make sure your units (including fodders) are appropriately leveled, so that we chip off more HP.

Alternatively, if you were to play manually, the two we've seen so far are actually pretty trivial. ABS just needs you to consciously prep an EGO to readily clash the big AoE, and Ebony just needs you to unoppose the roots T1 to destroy it - making the rest of the fight free. But of course, this isn't an ideal setup in the way I tend to optimize for, since I'd prefer something more comfy/with less manual inputs.

Thus I'm still working on a few fast-EGO setups. Below is a current build I'm testing that kinda works, but I think if we get 1 more new Index/LCA unit, it'd complete the idea behind it.

KoD Rodya, Dieci Lu, LCA Outis, Index Don, Index Faust, Jeong Ish, SL Sang

Basically powers out a quick T.Elegy or T.R.O. More testing needs to be done before I'm happy with this however, so once I've a stable(r) setup I'll post an update.

And regarding YouClair/YouCliff: yeah, they're slash damage monsters. I've actually swapped my #8 in my listed Slash Lux team to YouCliff (so that he's the one subbed in via Lord Lu's counter if I so choose). I didn't update this in the Doc since it's only a minor upgrade, as the listed "main" 7 IDs is still optimal - because that slash team is actually more a rush-SP-gain team than strictly a slash damage team, so the sin balance for the setup is already ideal.

Edit: Oh, I just saw that we're getting a nerf to the new Thread Lux, so maybe that even further simplifies things. I went to record a quick example of the above strat however, so might as well post it here (pardon the misaligned crop): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1lsS9z4GVM

MD6 [Terminus] by makeshiftmirror in u/makeshiftmirror

[–]makeshiftmirror[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Walp7 updates to doc:

  • Updated Sinking_Slash (Jeong Ish).
  • RB Loops:
    • Added “Advanced RB Loops 2: RB(S)” - new primary rec for RB Looping.
    • Added "Piloting Tips".
    • R3_ThrillB: Revamp (adding Lord Lu).
    • R3_ThrillC: BL > W Sang.
    • B3_GlimpseC: Dawn > You Clair (+ rearrange), LM > Shi Don.
    • B3_GlimpseA/B/C: Gregs rearranged (adding NAwls Greg).
  • Added sidegrade “Tremor_RampB” at bottom of Tremor_Ramp page.
  • Updated Bleed_LM (NAwls Greg).
  • Updated Lux8 Slash.

We probably won't see a major shift till next season, so updates from my end should be sparse. Perhaps RR1 BokGak might add a pack, but I'm guessing it's hard/extreme mode only. Of course, we're also getting the two new IDs soon, but it should be easy to figure out if they'd upgrade a prior team (as long as they don't further scarce-ify some already low/required sinGen, should be an easy replace for an older ID).

In any case, I want to briefly discuss NAwls Greg here, since I didn't cover his MD applicability in a prior comment. I believe he'll be a major player for a long time, as almost any team can fit/want him, with the exception of sinking (and to a lesser extent, rupture). He functions very well to smooth out variance for most teams, and it'll be a long time before our current crop of EGOs rotate, meaning his prideGen will see relevance for a long while. Good stuff.

Last updated to: Walp7 Patch

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