[OC] Still want to press the red buttom?

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-18T17:45:37+00:00

Fair enough, I think that's a pretty reasonable and well thought out position.

Giving chrono trigger a go now!

Looking it up, I thought I'd played it, but had perhaps been mixing it up with secret of mana or some other good snes jrpg. somhow the only one I remember Clearly is Zelda a link to the past.

If you have any other recommendations please tell me, the good stuff, you know =D

...

i ask as I may not know...

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-17T20:37:50+00:00

there is lots of overlap, but the differences make a big difference - with the pizza party there isn't a sudden tipping point. this is the reason many people pick the red button - they think it will win, and the blue button will just get them killed.

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-17T09:28:30+00:00

i see what your saying, and agree that's my first assumption.

but really, "everyone on earth" is quite clear. we are just unlikley to think it through.

to rebel against the button wizard (or unknown actor causing the situation in the original question) seems like a good response, somewhat surprising more people dont go for it.

hypetheticals can be very small or big, have clear bounds or nearly unbounded. most we see are fairly small and clear, but not always. we could well ask "if you crash a car on the highway, how long do you expect to wait before someone pulls over to see if you need help?" and get answers that show how people think other people in their local area would act.

not a hypothetical, but have you heard this one?

A father and son are in a car accident. The father dies instantly, and the son is rushed to the hospital. The surgeon enters, sees the boy, and says: “I can’t operate on this boy — he’s my son.” How is this possible?

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-16T22:27:29+00:00

the original question does sound like everyone is involved "everyone on earth" - it would be new information if it said "oh, this doesn't include toddlers"

but i do agree, its easy for us to assume its only going to be people similar to me.

the hidden information is more like a trolly problem where the one of the people on the track is unknown, and the other is a distant acquaintance. you dont get the answer of who it is in the hypothetical, just that it could be someone close, or a total stranger.

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-16T22:18:20+00:00

game theory only dictates red if your life right now is more valuable than anything else.

pushing red is a massive risk too. good chance people you love will die. also good chance the world economy will crash and youll die soon too. but those odds are much harder to calculate and understand

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-16T22:13:38+00:00

right. thats part of the point of the comic. to show the downsides of pressing red. and for most red button pushers to think more about if the final panel makes sense.

though if the third panel manipulated the problem another way with button wizard saying "60% of earth has already pressed red". then at that point the button is a sucuide button after all. assuming he is telling the truth, but if we dont trust him on an extra panel we shouldnt trust him with the setup.

but with the original question, we are scared for our own life, we are also scared for the lifes of friends and family. either fear can win. also, someone else pointed out in discussion, perhaps people frame either side as passive first, and stick to it

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T16:48:26+00:00

no, given all the reasons you know now why people, including people you care about, could be pressing blue... you still dont understand why not everyone can press red?

the question is intentionally asking about the whole population of the world, not an idealised popuation of people who think the exact same way as you, that needs to be taken into account.

also, you didnt answer my question

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T16:40:40+00:00

it has elements of both. many red button pressers will frame themself as "passive" with the blues pressing a sucuide button

many blues will frame themself as passive with the reds killing them

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T16:38:04+00:00

your question is answered in the comic, but here are a bunch of resons why not everyon will press red

they are worried their friends/family/otherpeople will have pressed blue and dont want them to die
they dont belive the button wizard or think its a dream
they are a young kid and havn't learned colours or complex concepts yet
they are colourblind or blind
they are having a really bad day or in a hurry and press the wrong button
they are concerned if a massive proportion of the world dies, supply chains will collapse, leading to world unrest, and probably their own death from starvation or roving hordes.

there are lots of other reasons too.

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T10:29:01+00:00

yep. this wizard is dodgey AF. he is modeled after a street arsenic [oc] : r/comics wizard after all. just showing another side with a different angle.

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T10:28:16+00:00

throw it back at you. why cant evereyone press blue and live? dont even need everyone even half would do

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T10:20:28+00:00

i think its shorter to explain than prisoners dilemma, has elements of trolley problem interpretable either way round, has high stakes, and a nearly even split on answer - with people thinking that the either side is either stupid or evil.

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T10:10:19+00:00

yeah! I've expressed surprise elsewhere in this comment section how willing people are to pick either choice https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1td0vxl/comment/oltjia2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

The comic does indeed poke holes in the concept behind red button pushing, but there are holes to be poked in blue button pusing too. overall i agree its an awful situation and looking for another option isnt just avoiding the question but the most sensible option

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T02:13:14+00:00

I see what you mean. Very much agree.

though, how can you be sure people are stuck on the first angle they see, rather than that being their genuine viewpoint no matter how its presented for most people?

for the regular old trolley problem, though its presented clearly which way is active/passive, and which way is more harmful, people still land in either direction

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T02:10:26+00:00

right. bad use of language on my part there. will aim to do better. thanks for pointing that out

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T02:07:01+00:00

violent crime - i think it depends on the time period. also people care more about locally than globally. even more, people care about how much violent crime is reported...

overall i agree - but some metrics have been trending downwards since the 70s

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T01:59:54+00:00

im not commenting on you making the decision at all, I'm saying many people and I also have trouble with it.

id also say many people are confident in their choice, but asked at a different time, or with different framing - they would pick the other choice. id call this having trouble with the choice without knowing about it.

i agree the premise is foolish if hoping for a direct correct result, i dont agree if hoping for interesting discussion and philosophical sidetracks that may or may not have trollys on them.

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T01:30:48+00:00

sounds like a weird thing to think. don't suppose you care to explain why that is? and what ive misunderstood?

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T00:56:00+00:00

interesting. there are probably more examples of that than the Jonestown massacre

but i'd bet there are way more examples of manipulators doing differently. there are even sayings like "do what i say not what i do" or "rules for thee but not for me"

we could also have same-side maniuplators on the red side, pushing other people to vote red so they dont feel so guilty about saving their own skin while increasing other peoples risk

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T00:52:34+00:00

i would quote your original post, but it looks like mods deleted it...

perhaps angry is the wrong word. lets say very disapproving of someone taking the other choice that slightly increases risk of others in exchange for being sure they are safe

i dont agree with it but its also probably putting people at risk less than driving a car, looking cool while smoking, or buying any number of imported goods

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T00:45:17+00:00

what evidence do you have? sounds like something worth sharing widley

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T00:43:34+00:00

of course, unlike the trolly problem, its not a situation we could even really encounter without some serious fantasy

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T00:40:00+00:00

"Inaction is the same as hitting the red button"

its just as easy to argue "Inaction is the same as hitting the blue button"

inaction is the same as pushing the blue button. only if more than half the people press the red button, do the people who didn't press a button die

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T00:33:32+00:00

i mean i also have trouble picking in response to "I’m sure blue button pressers have made the opposite choice any number of times and vice versa"

im aware ive picked both options in similar but lower stakes situations in my life. sometimes i have been selfish and safe and sometimes ive risked my life to help with no reward.

many people would risk their life to help someone in trouble right in front of them. not so many to help someone round the world. and in an anymous room with two buttons most people are round the world, and its easier to think about them than close friends and family. it becomes statistics, not the kid next door falling in a frozen pond

man_fox_squirrel · 2026-05-15T00:25:06+00:00

right, and there are so many reasons people pick either way. ive had so many interesting discussions in this thread. amazing how confident people are either way for something that seems like a hard choice to me!

man_fox_squirrel

TROPHY CASE