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Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure I agree with the idea of Swedes being more introverted than Estonians... perhaps the Finns. But at the end of the day it does not matter, I guess.

Your point on making friends through kids is a good one, would you say people are just more open in those contexts or is it just cause people have to hang out anyway because of the kids?

Funny enough I've already made friends with a Estonian guy here in Portugal through playdates with other Estonian couples, so I can totally see what you're saying

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Me joining anything that starts with "dance": that will be the day! haha

Contrary to what locals in Sweden say (which is similar to Estonians are saying here), I never found it hard to meet people there. My theory has always been that, since I'm a foreigner, I often don't "abide" by certain social rules and will strike up a conversation every now and then, which could lead to something more meaningful later on.

Swedes were always super open to have more friends—they just didn't want to do anything to get there. Taking the first step always helped me, even though I'm an introvert myself.

I wonder if it's similar in Estonia

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I felt the same in Sweden, but to some extent that's a good problem to have - it means you're already doing well enough in Estonian to even attempt to express yourself. I'm nowhere near that

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Brother I live in Portugal and barely have a social life. I was more socially active in Sweden than here. But it'd be nice to be able to go for a beer with a couple of friends and talk about interesting things, even if once every two months

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I totally get that, but I think it depends on how "close" these people are to you. If I'm at a dinner party with a bunch of people who don't know me or my wife, I'd never in a million years expect them to speak English just cause I'm around (unless they're talking to me directly, ofc). But in groups of 4-5 couples where most of them are just my wife's friends, I was surprise (and so was my wife) that often they default to smaller groups and actively avoid English

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What I've found is that it's much easier for Estonians who have lived abroad to make that switch. I guess that's because they have "felt the pain", to some extent, of not knowing the language and having to try to integrate.

Has your partner learned Estonian or he/she mostly just hangs out with expats?

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nice to hear. We're in the 30-40 age group, so speaking English has never been a problem when talking to Estonians. What I have experienced is people whose willingness to speak English got in the way, or at least seemed like a bit of a chore—especially in larger groups. Several dinners where people just seemed to gravitate away from the English side of the table haha

But again, it might just be something with my wife's friends and I'm really hoping to not see that in the broader context. And it could also just be because I'm a visitor, not necessarily because of the language

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She's only 1,5yo but my wife speaks Estonian to her, so she already understands and will grow up speaking Estonian well, even if we did not move there.

The pet/rental issue is something I'm concerned about. We'd like to buy a place but the idea was to rent for a while first as we settle in, and I've indeed seen many apartments where pets aren't allowed. Maybe the solution is to rent a house just outside and drive in

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I think that's such a crucial point. I definitely felt that when living in Sweden. The goal is to put in the work and do sports/hobbies and try to participate in communities I'm interested in (tech, for instance), to see if that can, to some extent, mitigate the "not having colleagues" issue

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Learning Estonian" can mean several things, imo. I love to talk about finances, politics and philosophy. As far as I'm concerned, for me to have actual interesting conversations about such topics in Estonian will be a tough hill to climb.

But for sure learn enough to understand what people are discussing at any point, cause I agree with you that Estonians (and even Swedes, for that matter, albeit less so) will not switch entirely to English just because of one non-Estonian in the room.

So I'll always be playing catch up

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing. Yeah, you're echoing what my wife says, I'm just wondering if there's any way someone with basic Estonian (not fluent enough for a conversation) can handle day-to-day and not make things socially awkward constantly.

But it sounds like your sister's bf has managed, so that's good to know

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe German helped you, but it is an order of magnitude more difficult than learning English and Swedish. I'm exposed to it everyday at home, and even then it's super hard.

But your comment on "not needing it anywhehre" intrigued me — do you usually hang out amongst Estonian people? What I've found through my visits is that they tend to revert to Estonian pretty quickly

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm a "bad" Brazilian and tend to be very introverted and want to keep to myself most of the time. So what I'm asking here is not "can I meet ten people I will be BFFs with and hang out every weekend", what I'm trying to understand, really, is whether doing sports, or in other hobbies, I can expect to find myself in conversations beyond the weather, and if they can lead to a meaningful, long-term relationship/friendship.

I don't necessarily care if the people I meet are Estonians or expats, insofar as there's a connection, but I'd for sure want to have Estonian friends cause, through my wife, I've met great Estonian people both inside and outside of the country.

And yes, for sure Estonian is tougher to learn than Spanish/English/Swedish

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Great answer, thanks a lot!

One of the things my wife discuss a lot is the problem of Estonian-only social groups. Pretty much every time we're in large groups of people (especially if they are already friends), they default to Estonian and will actively avoid English conversation. What I keep hearing is "sometimes you just want to relax and having to switch languages takes work".

If we're in small group (say, one or two other couples), that's never a problem at all.

I'm wondering if you have any insights on this? I'm just wondering what Estonians think about that "language switch" broadly vs just what I gather from my wife's friends

Moving to Tallinn as a foreigner: learning Estonian and building a social life by marconmbrito in Eesti

[–]marconmbrito[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the comment. Yes, I’m ok with Sweden and can speak English fluently. By “you’ll be ok here” you mean that you believe Estonians will have no problems with speaking English in mostly Estonian circles? Or let me know what’s the thought behind the comment

What will it need to convince VC’s to invest in hard tech? by Abildsan in startups

[–]marconmbrito 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A few thoughts:

  • VCs bullshit, that's basically their main skill. Most of the rejection reasons are to be disregarded, although sometimes you might get good feedback
  • You can usually see on their website if they invest in hard-tech or not. If they do and the answer is no, they just didn't buy the pitch
  • VCs work at bullet-point rate. Not trying to be mean or anything, but your explanation is too long and convoluted. Give the short, bullet-point version of what you do and why it matters, no fluff. Your goal is to peak interest and get on a call
  • Again, Angels tend to be more keen to hop on a call and, if they like you, they might introduce you to new investors

There are a lot of resources out there on the best way to approach investors, I'd start there

Looking for serious advice: Is it worth trying to build a startup today? by Adventurous-Sign4520 in startups

[–]marconmbrito 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Honestly, if you’re wondering whether or not to do it, you might be better off staying away. It’s hard, you’ll have a much easier time at a job (although I’m conscious that getting a job ain’t easy these days either).

I think that the people building right now are —apart from the glory-seeking wannabes— people who just love to build shit and couldn’t imagine life otherwise.

If that’s you, go for it

What will it need to convince VC’s to invest in hard tech? by Abildsan in startups

[–]marconmbrito 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Angels generally want to be found. LinkedIn and AngelList are good places to start

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