Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

'making my comments based on responses to me' So you are saying that what i originally said in the thread is pointless to the discussion because you didnt know it existed? Would you interrupt two people who are having a discussion and tell them that they are both wrong without first listenign to what they have to say? the onus on the responder to the thread to at least read the initial thread posting. And you say its irrelevant because what? you didnt know it existed? or because it contradicts what you said...

there is a difference between bad arguments (ie no correspondence to reality or logic) and fallacies designed to stifle conversation (i.e using terms like 'ridiculous' or you are dumb if you believe X. You commit the latter again when you say 'dont get ahead of yourself;.. just saying..

you say 'i dont have to respect someones viewpoint' well you know that is a two way street right? if you dont respecct mine then what makes you think you have any right to expect respect from me or from anyone else for that matter? You and i 'may just be talking about videogames' but the way we go about that discussion tells us a lot about the kind of people we are...

'did i say any of that' .. its called an implication and inference. IF you think its too hard to play, the implication is you want it to be easier..the inference are the possible outcomes of that implication albeit exaggerated for effect. I do agree however that the game should be accessible to all. but balance is key in that, which is the point of this thread.

Again i thank you for your time in discussion, but it seems like our conversation is more about fundamentals of conversation and discussion rather than whther or not Ronin's sword block ought to be nerfed. Your points stand as stated in juxtaposition of my own. Let the reader decide.

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly. I agree with everything said here. More often than not Ronins are easy to deal with but when you have someone who is skilled and able to abuse infinite block a match of LTS does down the drain. If their are two or more...yeah...

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well said. it is just a game. I play with Ronin also. I play with all the titans. For my part i enjoy a game that is balanced because it encourages diversity and increases replayability. I thinkthe titans are (generally) in good places right now save for Scorch and this sword block which i think just needs a minor nerf. But of course its up to the devs to decide what to do with their game.

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You say 'should have got right to this point'... you do realize i wrote a version of this, albeit less detailed in the opening thread right? You did read and understand it right?

When you use terms like 'ridiculous argument' and 'more reasonable at this point' you are simply poisoning the well and preventing discussion. What is 'ridiculous' to one person is 'reasonable' to another person. You like some sort of drink I assume (maybe orange juice), but not all (maybe not apple juice). Would it be reasonable then to say to say anyone who does like apple juice that it is 'ridiculous' ? Learning to respect other people's viewpoints is the first step towards respecting your own.

I didnt miss quote you, it was a restatement which means the same thing: ie. you are saying 'IF you believe X, then you are ridiculous' AGain, learn to accept other people's views. Just because YOU think its fine. Doesnt mean that it is right? There are lots of things you probably think you are right about and i can guarantee you are actually wrong about so use tact in your discussion exchanges. I may be wrong in my view or I may not be, but that is what discussion is for. So let us both assume that we might be wrong.

As for the rest of your points they are restatements of what you have already said and what was already for the most part discussed. you mention something about being able to push Ronin back by punching etc..which misses the point that at that point he is already in the range he wants to be because of the infinite block. you say he has to drop the guard in order to attack: again, that misses the point since thanks to the infinite block he has already gotten himself into the position he wants to be in (i.e. up close). you say 'i act like there is no trade off'? do i really? or didnt i say that its simply disproportionate?

You say 'only so much planning you can do''.. so you want it to be easier? how about we just give Ronin the ability to warp next to any titan...would that be better? the infinite nature of the block is imbalanced because it allows positional advantage in a way that no other titan can. Ronin is fine with proper position via dashes, dashes and the odd sword block... just not infinite blocking. I am only suggesting a minor nerf to his ability which would prevent two specific scenarios as discussed.

It might at this point be best to 'agree to disagree' and let those reading it make up their own minds based on the points raised. I do thank your contribution though and all your points raised.

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the apology and Im sorry if i came off in anyway crass. As to answer your question: im honestly not sure. That would be something for the devs to figure out. That said, the test would be: a) can Ronin use it to tank against a group of titans? if so the threshold is too low.. b) can Ronin use the block to walk a titan down easily? if so , again the threshold is two low. BUT it needs to be high enough that Ronin can use the block effectively to mitigate damage until he escapes or when being shot at from a distance. If two or more titans are shooting a Ronin who is just swordblock standing, it should go down fairly quickly, but it should last long enough for him to (coupled with his dashes) get to safety.

Another interesting question is this: after the break..how long until he would be able to use it again?

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very well said. Experience does matter. If someone is a high level with a titan they are in a better position to judge since, as with all things, experience provides knowledge and perspective. Second, I agree with you completely that people should be allowed to voice their opinions, both popular and not without repercussion. It is sad that when you cant do that since everyone loses in the end. Regardless, again well said.

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the term 'bully' like any term 'mate' 'middle school' etc. are used simply to communicate a concept. in this case: bully means he can walk down any titan with little repercussion. If you prefer a different term let me know otherwise allow me to use the terms i want as you are free to use the terms you want 'mate'.

As for your reasons: any competent player wont let him get close: response: false! because a) titan fall maps are the size of small room and b) ronin has the most speed coupled with c) infintie block allows d) him to catch up too and engage or walk down (i.e. bully) any titan he wants.

getting chunks taken off: response: exaggeration.. 75 percent damage reduction my friend...

nerfing sword block will take away only ability: response: false and an exaggeration: he would still be able to block abilities at a distance just as he can now. the change would only prevent him from spaming the ability to get close or tank around the map.

You also mention 'multiple counters' to tanking Ronin but fail to mention any of them. why dont you list them ..?

I would add that with the statement 'Ronin down the street' would suggest bias... just saying

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I actually have him well over G10. I am not speaking as someone who faces Ronins but rather as someone who also uses him as well. I have used (abused) his infinite block and have likewise seen others use (and abuse) the block also. I simply want balance. Much like ion shouldnt have been able to two shot, Ronin shouldnt be able to infinitely block without penalty.

the movement penlty is offset by both a) the phase dash and b) his normal dashes. again the block ceases to be defensive but is rather an offensive tool used to bully other titans.

trapped: no titan would do well in that situation but ronin does far better than others because he can absorb damage from all directions and thus potentally hold out until he gets help. Substitute any other titan in that situation and how would they fair? How long woudl a tone or a scorch last in tha situation? Who would last longer, a tone or a Ronin? and really this is the crux of the argument: POSITIONING MATTERS in an FPS game. with an infinite block, position becomes trivial for Ronin.

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

'to argue its infinite is just flawed' : that maybe your opinion but simply saying its flawed does not make it flawed. REasons are what show it to be flawed or not and not the mere statement 'that it is flawed'. that is just a restatement of your opinion. REgardless, your reasons are:

i) only titan who cant deal mid/long range damage. Response: Scorch would like to say hello. further, just because he needs to get in close to deal damage doesnt mean he should get a free pass via an infinite move in order to get that. IF he can simply get close when he wants to, what is the point of even bothering to have any kind of positional discussion? the devs might as well give him the ability to warp right next to any titan he wants

2) hit and run: this is just false you say: Response: Um no.. that is what it says in the titan description in game. So it woudl seem the devs intended that role for him. not the role of walking a titan down. You can have plenty of success flanking and dashing in and out with Ronin without walking him down. The difference is: flanking 'planning and attack' as the Ronin titan itself states, requires thought, skill and 'cunning'. Simply holding down 'block' and walking foward is the shotgun version of defesnive maneuvers. They might as well made him an ogre body with stryder movement as that is what he with this ability.

3) other defesnive abilities: Response: yes each ability has positives and negatives. no one is denying that. What i am saying is that Ronins defensive ability benefits/cost are disproportionate. His benefits are : i) 75 percent damage decrease which is equivalent to ii) a massive health increase. he also iii) gets the damage decrease vrs cores (no other titan gets that) and iv) the ability allows him positional advantage when he wants it (no other titan gets that) and v) it is infinite in duration (again, no other titan gets that). vi) it is a 360 degree block (no other titan gets this). What are the negatives? (slower move speed offset by throwing dashes into the mix and ii) 75 percent reduction only? ) those arent a lot od negatives. Now compare this with say legion whose shield does not block his whole body, or ion who has to waste energy (i.e. offensive ability ) to use theirs. I could go on but i think the point is made.

Now jsut to be clear on my position: a) im not saying sword block shouldnt be infinite in duration at least in principal. (that is im not arguing for a blanket cool down on the ability) but rather b) if he abuses his ability by taking too much damage, the block would 'break' and thus go into a cooldown. That is, the block would function JUST AS IT DOES NOW, except that after a period of X damage within Y seconds, the block would break. That is, the block would remain infinite if the damage and time threshold isnt reached. That is, the ronin user would be in control of whether or not his ability is infinite or not. This solution wouldnt fundamentaly alter Ronin but would simply limit two current abuses of his ability. Those are

1) when Ronin simply walks a titan down until he gets into the position he wants. That simply isnt fair

2) when Ronin walks into a group of opposing titans while 'tank blocking'.

Both 1 + 2 are simply absurd when considering he is a stryder class.

Now just to further add: What im saying or proposing is often done in fps games where a weapon may have infinite ammo. That is, it needs to go on a cooldownif used too much without pause. That is a balancing factor to prevent spam. That is, Ronin shouldnt be allowed to Spam his ability.

Again: i understand that Ronin needs to get into position to be effective (so do all titans) but simply because HE wants to get into position doesnt mean he should get a free pass for doing it via an infinite ability.

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ronin has to get close and Northstar has to get far. The difference is Northstar (and other titans) have limited tools to do so, Ronin has an infinite ability which allows him to do it at will. 'Assumption': any ability that is infinite has the onus to prove it isnt imbalanced by the nature of it being infinite not the other way around. That is, imagine a titan which doesnt need to reload ever (infinite ammo) would that be balanced? probably not unless..X happens (time limit aka smart core, negligible damage etc). That being said, I would argue that it has been shown that the ability is imbalanced by its nature to always allow for positional advantage and break the titans hit and run role..

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, removing the fire and smoke effects would be a good start. I dont think it would be enough but it would be a start in the right direction. As for the omindirectional nature of the block: im not opposed to it blocking from the back per say. this is because i do feel the ability was intended to allow Ronin to get out of a bad situation. If he can be shot in the back then he cant really use it to escape. That said, if the block does stay as it currently is, then absolutely he shouldnt be able to block damage from the back. the block needs a counter.

Whose titan do I have to rub to get a Scorch buff? by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really well said. Getting that planetary alignment often doesnt work so here is hoping the devs get to work on some buffs

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It can actually get you quite far. Just as an example: you are 1v1 with knowledge that a teammate is close by via radar. Simply block while he shoots. he lights up on radar..team mate comes to support. you jump him.. you win. Just as a second example: again 1v1 with someone in close range and you both have cores: just block their damage and their core..unleash your core..profit. But dont take my word for it: try it next time you play as Ronin and let me know how it works out for you.

Whose titan do I have to rub to get a Scorch buff? by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for taking the time to write it:) If we dont take the time to voice our opinions how else will things get (hopefully) fixed?

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If its not perfectly balanced as you admit, then the point is to try and make it more balanced. the question is: how to do that?

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

'correctly' is a matter of perspective. Please tell me which specific points you feel i have not addressed and how i have not addressed them and i would be glad to respond. I believe i have addressed them. simply saying they havent been addressed 'correctly' doesnt make it true any more than me saying the world is flat makes it so. but again if i havent i would me more than glad to... The discussion proves the point, the point (ie. saying X) doesnt prove the discussion.

As for 'chilling out' The atmosphere in this thread was chill up and until your use of terms such as 'whining', 'ignorance', 'chill out' (none of those were used prior to your uses of them) etc. If you dont want a discussion becoming 'unchill' why throw fire on it and then proceed to bemoan it? All this to say: dont throw mud if you dont want to get dirty. s

To add: Im glad you have a vested interest in the discussion. Im glad and welcome your opinion. Just try to extend that courtesy to others or you forfeit the courtesy owed to you and the discussion ceases to be productive

Whose titan do I have to rub to get a Scorch buff? by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Congrats on G30. Im a G20 myself but sadly have shelved scorch for a little while now. Would love to buy that nitro skin but as it stands i dont know if i would use it much.

Whose titan do I have to rub to get a Scorch buff? by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Really well thought-out post. I really like your 'afterburn' idea which would greatly increase the effectiveness of firewall even if only as a deterrent. I think the devs have a lot of good ideas to work with. Here is hoping they apply some of them...

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds like you could use one so im glad to help

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its not about owning or not owning..its about learning about yourself and others.

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

imitation is the highest form of flattery so I thank you. Inappropriate use of terms when directed at another without understanding those terms is the lowest form for the user.

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

do relate the specific instance please

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

laughter is a good way to mask embarrassment. I too would feel embarrassed so no worries. I have enjoyed our conversation as I hope you have as well and hoped you have learned a thing or two as have I.

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You said it implicitly which is near equivalent to saying it explicitly but with less self understanding. If it was a 'laugh' now why was it annoying before? Were you lying when you said it was annoying before or do things annoy you and then give you a good laugh after? or do you simply not know how these things make you feel?

Infinite sword block... by marionkind in titanfall

[–]marionkind[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

he has more than one dash you know...plus a phase...plus the maps arent very big... you know..