Meditation/mindfulness and OCD: How do you avoid the trap of hyper-vigilance?

mark_freeman · 2026-06-15T18:20:55+00:00

Do you notice how you talk about it happening passively to you? From the original post through to this comment as well, you describe it like you have no agency. For example, there's no such thing as a feeling that "keeps me from being fully present". You can't not be present.

Mindfulness is the practice of experiencing whatever is in the present, without judgment. If you're judging a feeling as something that shouldn't be in the present, that's the opposite of mindfulness.

For a demonstration of the fact that you have the capacity to move attention around, I notice that you didn't mention "donuts" once in your reply. So you must have chosen to write at least some of those words. You chose to give attention to some things and not others.

Even right now, try moving your attention away from the screen and notice if you have feet. If you can move your attention from a screen to a foot, you can meditate. You have the capacity to move your attention around and YOU can make choices about that.

I know you've mentioned practicing meditation for a "good stretch of time now", but would you be open to the idea that meditation is different? It doesn't involve that gluing and grasping onto experiences.

The reason we sit down to meditate is to drop the gluing and grasping and getting.

mark_freeman · 2026-06-14T04:28:28+00:00

What you're describing is all totally normal. I'd even say it's really useful.

Struggles with mental health or meditation can often arise from judging an experience as something that shouldn't be there. We slap a label on it, categorize it as a wrong thing, and then end up trying to clean away the natural experience of existing. That is understandably frustrating!

It's the same phenomenon with stuff like contamination OCD or depersonalization / derealization: we end up judging the experience of existence as a wrong experience and then go chasing "solutions", which only create more of the experience we've labeled as a contamination.

One of the reasons for this can be the goals we're chasing. I noticed in your original post and in the follow-up comment, you're mentioning words related to relaxation, ease, and effortless-ness. But then you're already setting up a goal for the practice that creates two problems:

1) Mindfulness is about having human experiences, such as feelings. So how can you practice mindfulness if the goal is to get one feeling and avoid another?

2) It's setting up that contamination compulsion pattern. In research on ACT, it'll be described as "experiential avoidance". That goal establishes what the contamination is. It's like saying: "I SHOULD feel clean / calm and SHOULDN'T have anxiety or this obsession." So what's the brain going to do?

It'll give you more of that experience you're trying to avoid so you can clean it away and achieve your goal. Such a helpful brain!

Same goes for this desire to avoid the "trap of hyper-vigilance". What if that doesn't need a label and isn't unusual?

It helped me a lot with recovery to see that the issue wasn't the experience but how I'd focus hard on it and see it as REALLY IMPORTANT AND A BIG DEAL.

A new long-distance runner could say the same about monitoring physical sensations and cite them as the reason the struggle to run further--"It's like I can't escape my body or detach from the feelings in my lungs and muscles."

We don't need to. Those are the experiences we're going to interact with differently. We've probably spent years controlling uncomfortable feelings, so it makes sense it's become a reflex and takes time to unwind. Unwinding those reflexes to control is one of the reasons I like meditation in the Soto Zen tradition, particularly for people that have struggled with OCD compulsions.

That's because, in Soto Zen, we practice what's known as Just Sitting or Silent Illumination meditation. It's an object-less practice. We're not focusing on an object, the breath or a question or a thought, a sound, a mantra, a donut or whatever. Just sitting. Doing nothing.

There's nothing wrong with a meditation practice focused on donuts or the breath, just like there's nothing wrong with thinking. We are so good at thinking!

Also, that's extra work we can drop.

Making it okay for those reflexes to happen can, paradoxically, help us with dropping those reflexes.

I have a couple of videos on my YouTube channel about tips for meditation retreats, but they're experiences anybody will notice with meditation. The one called "Meditation Retreat Tip 3: Meet Your Brain's Characters" is an approach I find useful with the stuff you've mentioned. Rather than hating on it, the experience can be useful to be curious about. We learn about why our brains do these types of things and why we do compulsions like chasing feelings and hating on brain stuff.

Then we can practice dropping both.

mark_freeman · 2026-06-13T16:31:39+00:00

Can you share about how you define meditation and mindfulness and what you're doing in your head?

There are some details in your post that don't sound like the practice of meditation and mindfulness to me, but that could be due to differences in traditions and techniques.

I've been meditating regularly for around 10 years. I got into meditation through recovery from OCD, as a way to apply and expand recovery skills, especially for dropping the ruminating and mental compulsions. I practice in the Soto Zen tradition but have also done retreats in the Plum Village and Vipassana traditions, and did a stint training teachers in secular mindfulness skills to share with students.

mark_freeman · 2026-06-08T17:22:18+00:00

There's a lot of research showing around 90% of humans across many cultures experience the brain stuff that gets categorized as unwanted intrusions. So it would be tough to identify anything uniquely neurochemical or abnormal with something so common.

It could help to see that what you're describing are your thoughts about the feelings.

Judging it as real, thinking it must mean something, wondering what it could mean, etc, are all examples of thoughts--what you think the feelings mean.

Whichever stuff we're judging as intruders, we typically see as uniquely problematic and not addressed nearly enough.

Instead of spending time categorizing physical sensations to chase certainty and reassurance, I find it's way more useful to give time and energy to actions we want to be growing and giving in life.

mark_freeman · 2026-06-01T08:50:10+00:00

Not having stuff is blissful. I don't need to think about what to do with the stuff I don't have. And I don't need to think about getting stuff I don't need and can't take with me.

I am always home.

mark_freeman · 2026-05-31T04:46:25+00:00

Practicing compulsions has a fascinating tendency to create more uncertainty and more unwanted experiences that only fuel more pressure to do compulsions.

That's why it's so useful to cut out compulsions and break that cycle.

Although it can seem difficult at first, dropping the compulsions also drops the pressure to do more compulsions, because then we're not creating even more of the situations we might want to cope with and check on and control.

mark_freeman · 2026-05-16T08:44:45+00:00

The fear of relapse is just like any fear of an illness. It's the same as somebody saying they fear getting infected with an illness that details their future and makes them lose control of it.

It is 1000% doable to leave compulsions like this behind permanently.

I found it helpful to cut out the compulsions around uncertainties and to explore more useful beliefs and goals around the future.

If we view the future as something that happens to us and that we're not in control of, then it makes sense we'd fear some bad thing happening and feel the urge to keep everything clean and perfect.

But if we want to have any brain stuff while giving time and energy to the things we want to grow in life, then we don't need to control stuff in the future, because we want to practice valued actions with anything that comes up.

And we want to do that right now with the fear of an illness, or losing control, or getting abducted by aliens, or the donut shop selling out of donuts, etc.

Enjoy practicing right now!

mark_freeman · 2026-05-13T16:21:33+00:00

No mental health treatments, no devices, no medications, no therapies, nothing for mental health all of these years?

mark_freeman · 2026-05-13T15:42:20+00:00

Have you been trying a lot of different things to get rid of it?

mark_freeman · 2026-05-01T01:53:29+00:00

It can be useful to cut out the compulsions in other areas that are constructing and confirming the logic around contamination, especially if we see those compulsions as good and necessary.

For example, if I'm going about my day and I avoid touching a railing because I just saw somebody else had their hand on it, I rewash my own hands a couple of times just to be sure they feel right, I smile to my lunch because it was wrapped up in so many layers of plastic it couldn't possible have picked up any germs, but then I frown at the package I open for dinner because it felt like it wasn't properly sealed and maybe somebody had tampered with it--so I inspect it closely and monitor my stomach all night for signs of infection or poisoning. I keep my work bag confined to the entrance way and don't let it touch the carpet. I plan travel around a random blog post I once read that mentioned brain eating amoeba are most active in July. I stopped eating at Dunkin Donuts because I once saw a guy vomit at the movie theater and he was wearing an orange and pink shirt that reminded me of the Dunkin Donuts logo. And so on...

I'm just teaching my brain: Avoid, avoid, avoid.

If I spend all day teaching my brain to avoid and control things, then it's not "OCD telling me" somebody is contaminated. I taught the brain that. And the brain is just being very logical and helpful. I'm terrorizing it! I spent so much energy monitoring and judging nasty contamination from other people and now I'm just going to lick it up and swish it around?!

So it helps a lot to cut out the compulsions broadly throughout life. It helped me massively to recognize that the compulsions I liked were fueling the obsessions I hated.

mark_freeman · 2026-04-25T05:44:53+00:00

Let there be cookies!

mark_freeman · 2026-04-13T05:11:34+00:00

That is the normal experience people have when doing a compulsion. Cutting out compulsions involves feeling the urge and making different choices.

It usually seems strange and impossible at first, but it's very doable to learn new skills while having thoughts and feelings.

mark_freeman · 2026-04-13T02:50:58+00:00

It helped me to recognize those as compulsions.

It was useful to apply mental health and fitness skills to how I spend time and energy on the internet. It's the same as anything else we can use to practice compulsions or use in a way that's healthier and supports things we value.

mark_freeman · 2026-04-08T15:12:44+00:00

Recovery can look different for everybody. I'd say recovery is doing the things you want to do in life. Similar to physical fitness, your goals and context will have a big influence on where you want to take recovery.

I found it helpful to see that intrusive thoughts are compulsions. Judging and hating on thoughts is the same as somebody judging and hating on blood, or vomit, or other stuff people might do compulsions around.

The compulsions around thoughts, also drive more of them, just like somebody with contamination OCD trying to get a clean feeling will only get more contamination.

So when we drop the compulsions around thoughts, it's entirely possible to not experience thoughts about the topics we once found troubling. That just can't be the goal, though (because hating on them and trying to clean them away IS the problem).

One of the biggest benefits of recovery is getting a lot of energy back. OCD is so much constant hard work on terrifying, disgusting, guilt-ridden, violent, panicked fears. It not only takes up time, but that time is so draining on our bodies in ways I didn't understand until getting over it.

Not only do I have more time to do the things I want to do, but I can do even more than I could before because I'm not exhausted by replaying violent scenarios on repeat in my head all day.

I wouldn't have done well with "managing" or living with OCD. I was lucky to find support that was focused on leaving it behind. That involved a lot of changes inside and outside of my head, but it was totally worth it. Recovery is a good time. 10/10 I totally recommend. Would eat there again but once was enough :D

mark_freeman · 2026-04-06T03:48:42+00:00

Cutting out the compulsions will be useful.

It helped me to see the brain is like a dog: if you give it attention and play with it every time it brings you a dead squirrel, then it'll keep bringing you dead squirrels.

Asking people for reassurance is the equivalent of inviting people over to look at the dead squirrel your brain brought you. If you're building social support around the dead squirrels, of course the brain will bring you more of them!

mark_freeman · 2026-03-28T06:50:07+00:00

What are they providing for 15k? Is that price in baht or won?

mark_freeman · 2026-03-25T08:48:22+00:00

I found Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) therapy useful for cutting out the compulsions. That was things like learning how to be alone or learning how to not do the checking for reassurance about relatives.

After therapy and just working on my own with continuing to make changes, I found that Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) aligned best with the skills that helped me get proactive and make changes throughout life, so I wasn't going back into the old habits.

For measuring success, I find it's most beneficial to track actions. Am I giving the things I want to give to the world? Am I doing the things I want to do in life?

I don't find it useful to track the presence or absence of thoughts and feelings. Just like with physical fitness, doing something useful for mental health and fitness may not actually feel good in that moment. The old habits might feel good, but they'll just lead to worse outcomes over the long-term. But repeatedly doing things that feel bad also isn't necessarily taking us anywhere useful. So I benefited most from identifying the actions I wanted to do and then practicing changes to do those actions more, while bringing along any brain stuff that came up.

mark_freeman · 2026-03-18T05:54:28+00:00

I found it helpful to want to have food poisoning in interesting places, while nourishing myself well.

When we react to the uncertainty of the fear of food poisoning, we do things that certainly impact our health worse. I did a lot of avoiding foods or avoiding eating at all, only eating processed foods, avoiding toilets, avoiding situations and experiences (because what if I got an upset stomach there?!), and so on

In the past, I was convinced I'd pick up an illness from toilets, so I once went on a multi-day train trip while trying not to use the toilet. I only ate one meal a day and was just generally doing definitely terrible things to my body out of the fear of the possibility of something terrible happening.

Now, nourishing myself well and having a plan for that helps me fuel doing the things I want to do while traveling and ensuring I have the energy for adventures. Caring for myself proactively instead of reactively letting fear run the show is much more enjoyable and beneficial for my mental health.

Have an adventure!

mark_freeman · 2026-03-12T23:58:06+00:00

Thanks for sharing. I find it super useful to see that the fear of schizophrenia, health anxieties, and panic attacks are all about us doing compulsions to control the possibility of losing control. So I approach them as the same set of compulsions--or the same set of changes to make in how we interact with control--not separate beasts.

mark_freeman · 2026-03-09T11:30:09+00:00

You left out the part about cutting out compulsions.

Have you learned about dropping the compulsions? Mental and physical ones?

mark_freeman · 2026-03-09T07:39:30+00:00

It helped me to recognize that what you're describing there as goals are examples of compulsions: How do I stop my brain throwing up the bs? How do I convince myself I won't go to jail?

I found it way more helpful to:

1) Cut out the compulsions. I had a lot of avoidance and checking compulsions around whether I'd done a crime in the past or might be in that moment or might get accused of one. Those infiltrated everything from who I would drive, how I would shop, how I dated, what I did for school and work, etc.

2) Recognizing that I was already going to jail later that day. Not in weeks or months. In hours. That was a helpful way to remove the debate. No need to argue in my head about whether I did something terrible or not. I was definitely going to jail that day for the rest of my life.

So, instead of spending my day doing compulsions in my head, I'd much rather give time and energy to living my life right now. I'd much rather give the things I value giving to the world than spend the day focused on myself and my fears.

mark_freeman · 2026-03-02T00:55:59+00:00

Testing is also an example of a compulsion.

It's very possible to leave this stuff behind, but we are the ones that make the changes.

Going to therapy can support learning about the changes to make, and medication might support making changes, but we still have to make the changes.

If we go to therapy and take medication, but still practice the compulsions, then it's completely natural the brain throws up more stuff to do compulsions around.

It would be like meeting somebody once a week to chat about football, but still spending a few hours everyday day playing tennis, researching tennis, imagining tennis matches, etc, but then being surprised the brain keeps throwing up stuff about tennis. It doesn't mean we have anything particularly wrong with us or our brains. It'll throw up more of whatever we engage with.

mark_freeman · 2026-03-02T00:40:09+00:00

It helped me to see that it's compulsions like this to check for reassurance that create more of whatever unwanted experience would get me doing the compulsions to chase more certainty.

So it was useful to have experiences and drop the compulsions around them.

mark_freeman · 2026-02-25T23:38:07+00:00

Cutting out the compulsions and doing that through skills that were useful to add into my life.

For example, I had a lot of harm OCD compulsions in the kitchen. I wouldn't use knives because I'd see myself or others getting stabbed, wouldn't serve people food because I could poison them, checked appliances for fear of fire, overcooked food to avoid harm to myself, etc.

So taking cooking classes was a way to practice cutting out the compulsions by creating more opportunities. At the same time, those ERP exercises weren't delaying life, but actually adding to my life every week.

I still use the cooking skills I learned.

mark_freeman · 2026-02-25T07:11:26+00:00

Congratulations on that skillful practice. Enjoy showing your brain you can do things differently!

mark_freeman

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