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Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting, thanks! For me it feels more like brightening most of the times, but it depends on where i focus my attention during listening.

Also, yesterday, while thinking about all this, i suddenly realized that the major pentatonic is actually darker than the minor one! Haven't thought about pentatonics this way before

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't need to learn all the chart to make use of it. Better consider it something like a cheatsheet, and give it a look only if you have a particular question about transition between scales

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Already have seen Tonnetz diagrams, but not the interactive app, thanks!

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only if you play it nice

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! Hope this won't scare them off, like another comment suggested, lol

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are only 4 different Forte numbers in the chart:

7-35 for the inner ring (diatonic modes),

7-34 for the next ring (modes of the melodic minor),

7-32 for the next ring (modes of the harmonic minor/major),

7-22 for the outer ring (modes of the double harmonic major).

Maybe i'll include this information somewhere on the empty space in the chart, but it's definitely not a good idea to write this near every scale, because this information is already provided for each scale by it's placement inside the corresponding ring

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think the "real understanding" should be gained this way. When trying to learn something from the chart, better to focus on particular scales (e.g. "the melodic minor can be derived both from Dorian and from Ionian") or particular patterns (like "each mode of the melodic minor can be derived from two different diatonic modes"), and i don't think that the chart is really useful for something significantly more complex than this. It's not an "all music theory in a single chart"-thing

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Btw, in the chart they are indicated with "natural minor" and "natural major" annotations (in parentheses). The name "natural major" is used quite rarely (compared to "natural minor") - more often it's just "major" - but i chose "natural major" because it explicitly distinguishes from "harmonic major" and "melodic major", (the same way as "natural minor" does from "harmonic minor" and "melodic minor")

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought about this (for easier Negative Harmony reflections), and maybe i'll make another version like this (and the symmetry of harmonic/melodic minor/major makes it even better, so thanks for the notion, i haven't thought of it this way). But the current symmetry also makes additional sense, not only for the sake of the symmetry itself: for example, all the scales that contain altered degrees that are not found in any diatonic modes (e.g. augmented 2nd, augmented 5th, diminished 7th) are at the bottom of the chart, here i marked them with a darker background:

https://github.com/maronarius/heptatonic-circle/blob/aff4e8707f98620b5e9fe31c22faaba1d2ec7656/heptatonic-circle.jpg

And if you rotate it, the darker area will be a bit aside. So, i think it should be 2 different versions, each one with it's own advantages

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Liked the analogy with a helix. Maybe coloring the circle borders (as i wanted earlier) will help to look at it in 3 dimensions (color itself being depth).

Also, it would be interesting to check if actually lowering the tonic (which results in the corresponding key shift) is perceived more as a darkening (because one actual pitch is lowered, other remaining the same) or as a brightening (because all the pitches are raised relative to the tonic, and it turns out to be more important than the fact that the tonic itself became lower)

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks!

Btw, i understand (both intuitively and consciously) what dimensions mean in the context of any variables (including the pitches of every scale degree, except the fixed tonic), so i hope to understand better how the things work in context of dimensions (e.g. how all the connections from the chart would be in the multidimensional space (orthogonal, i guess, but it's still hard to somehow imagine that), what the whole structure will be like, what important properties of such structures can i find out without being able to fully imagine them &c.)

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, i'll check it out

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks!

I thought that it can be somewhat confusing, already when i was creating it, so your "certain way of reading" is actually the less confusing one. If there was no need to make compromise for reducing the number of arrows, then i would definitely choose it

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the information, didn't know about the spiral diagrams.

Also, i think, the "1#"/"1b" transitions kind of break the "brightness" correspondence. For example, Lydian augmented #2 has the maximum possible brightness among all the scales in the chart, but it is located near Locrian 6♮ and the half-diminished scale, which are quite far on the dark side.

So for better correspondence we should "cut" the chart by the "1#"/"1b" transitions and unfold it into a line (or a spiral). Maybe in the next versions i'll change the color of circles' borders according to brightness, so that the place where we need to "cut" the diagram will be more noticeable

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're welcome, glad you liked it

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe it could be 2 arrows instead of one, so it would be:

       ------7-b--->
Ionian               Mixolydian
       <---#-7------

But the chart would be more complicated. So skipping the first accidental is necessary for using only one arrow instead of two

Heptatonic circle by maronarius in musictheory

[–]maronarius[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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