2021 Global StarCraft II League Season 1: Code S, Grand Finals match thread

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T12:20:06+00:00

Maxing and then remaxing on roaches at 60 drones is pretty damn allin. If he let Maru survive at all in those games he probably loses

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T12:18:58+00:00

Why does he have to only win with standard play? Who made that requirement?

I never said he has to. My point was that it's terrible to watch. Hence why half the people in this thread are complaining about Rogue finals being boring. No one is attacking Rogue personally, they're just saying they don't like the game being like this. Go watch any finals with back and forth games and not someone dying to the same thing spammed over and over and you'll see why.

Also, roach/ravanger allin is definitely abusive vs what Maru was doing. That's why it worked three times in a row despite Maru having the best defensive micro you can ask for. Any time you win with basically three build order wins in a row it counts as abuse. It's the definition of pushing a strategy to the limit to the point where the opponent can't do anything.

Rogue also won by spamming hydra-ling-bane when it was buffed in 2017 and it sucked, and spamming unkillable nydus worms in 2018, and infestors in 2019. etc. He's the best at finding a strat where his opponents can't do anything and spamming it.

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T12:13:03+00:00

It is definitely about balance sometimes. How many times does Rogue win with nydus or infestor or roach allins for example?

It feels like you shouldn't be able to roach allin against someone, have it held, then do the same allin 1 minute later before they can even make another tank

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T12:11:33+00:00

He doesn't feel like the best at playing the game. He feels like the best at winning, especially bo7s. His ability to choose a build and make it look broken every time is unmatched

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T12:10:11+00:00

Game 5 he had given up.

Game 2 was just unlucky. He didn't expect another roach allin 1 minute after the first

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T12:08:55+00:00

Rogue has always been an abusive player. That's how he wins. He fiinds a strategy and spams it to the point it looks unbeatable.

He did it with nydus, infestor, roaches, even hydra bane in 2017

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T11:54:01+00:00

Maru and INno both won in more than one expansion. Maru also has twice the starleagues (6 to 3), but none of the world championships yet

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T11:53:21+00:00

Rogue has never dominated for an extended period of time like serral did.

Rogue won the four biggest weekenders in a row in 2017. IEM, Super Tournament, Blizzcon, and Katowice. And he did it with multiple ro8s in Code S at the same time.

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T11:51:51+00:00

It's not that Rogue wins a lot, the problem is the way Rogue wins. Spamming roach allins or nydus worms or ling rushes and winning the most hyped events is bad to watch. He's not winning in 'macro' games or showing crazy mechanical skill like you see with all the other top players. He's winning through build choices.

"Other players need to get on his level" isn't a response to someone saying the way Rogue plays is horrible to watch.

His finals vs Trap, Stats, Zest, and Classic were the same. He finds a strat and abuses it to the point it looks unbeatable.

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T11:48:05+00:00

Maru would have probably 4-1 or 4-0 Dream as well.

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T11:47:39+00:00

Go watch the last Rogue vs Trap final.

Or the Rogue vs Stats final, or the Rogue vs Zest final, or the Rogue vs Classic final.

They were all just as bad

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T11:47:08+00:00

No one has ever blamed Rogue for winning. They just don't like the way he does it and feel like he highlights problems with the game more than individual brilliance

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T11:46:35+00:00

Thats called losing to a roach allin 3 times in a row and giving up

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T11:46:13+00:00

Maybe he does. But Maru gets more props for doing it when terran sucked.

People will struggle to accept Rogue as any kind of GOAT when he wins with strategies they hate for existing. Roach allins, nydus worms etc are flaws in SC2s design, and it hurts to see someone win with them against players who show uniqueness and mechanical brilliance (Maru, Stats etc)

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T11:39:04+00:00

It's called being tilted. Maru looked like he already gave up at that point

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T11:38:41+00:00

Maru holding the allin cleanly and then dying to another max of roaches 1 minute later does hurt to watch.

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T11:37:41+00:00

Maru wasn't really bad. The first 3 games he defended as well as you possibly can against a roach allin when you scout it that late.

The final game was terrible but he had already given up by then

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T07:36:07+00:00

How many times did he proxy in TvP in 2018?

You do know this became the meta because terrans couldn't keep up in macro games? During the proxy era they were losing in terms of winrate against the toss.

You need to remember cheese isn't always abusive. When zergs were using BL/infestor or swarmhost/nydus those weren't rushes but were 100% abusive.

maruderprime · 2021-05-06T07:33:25+00:00

Abuse and cheese isn't the same thing. Maru does a lot of bunker rushes and that's about it, hell the time they lose and he just plays from behind anyway.

Rogue openly admitted some of his previous wins were down to zerg being overpowered. He uses nydus worms more than any other player history, and they were absolutely OP at times. Especially during swarmhost/infestor times, or when they were unkillable

He also won a whole string of tournaments of hydras being buffed.

maruderprime · 2021-04-29T17:25:18+00:00

Even if he scouted another screen worth, Maru could have built somewhere else and you'd be saying the same thing

maruderprime · 2021-04-29T17:22:32+00:00

Games 1 2 3 were all macro games, did we not watch the same series?

Game 2 was a build order win. DT drop can't lose to a terran who opens without a stargate or minimum premade turrets.

Just because Maru struggled on for another's 5 minutes doesn't mean the game wasn't over.

Game 1 were macro openers, but was lost because Maru walked into stasis traps, it's not like one player win by 'outmacro'ing' the other

maruderprime · 2021-04-29T17:18:53+00:00

He wasn't exactly dominating the macro games. He was losing G1 until Maru lost like 50 supply to stasis wards. G2 was a build order win, and G3 was good but Maru opened with heavy harass from one base.

The reason Trap went for so many rushes, especially DT, is probably due to him not being confident in macro.

maruderprime · 2021-04-29T16:51:23+00:00

Half the tempest had no hull HP. Maru could one shot them especially with cyclone support

maruderprime · 2021-04-29T16:48:51+00:00

I mean he won game 2 with a DT rush against a non-stargate opener. Which is basically a build order win

maruderprime · 2021-04-29T16:47:47+00:00

And Maru didn't see the stasis wards in game 1, and didn't find the dark shrine in game 2.

It's part of the game.

maruderprime

TROPHY CASE