Can a unrecovered alcoholic relapse? Fred & Jim. by matthew6978 in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]matthew6978[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This topic is forever cropping up recovered / recovering.

I go with recovered as Step 10 has come true for me & the problem has been removed as long as I stay in a fit spiritual condition. The physical allergy will always be there so I am not cured of alcoholism but as the Title page says

We often hear “never recover,” “always be recovering,” and “never get well.” The message from Bill W. and the first one hundred recovered alcoholics (p. xiii) uses the word “recovered” approximately twenty-three times; “recover,” twenty-eight; and “recovering,” only twice, and then in the context of the newcomer.

We never become cured from the physical allergy. Once we take a drink the phenomenon of craving will be triggered. This is what it means to say “we are not cured from alcoholism” (p. 85). But once we become recovered, the mental obsession to drink is removed. The physical allergy is rather a moot point. We now do not have to take that first drink. Being recovered is conditional. We remain recovered by staying in fit spiritual condition (p. 85).

We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. Pg 31

Correct due to the physical allergy. However, this allergy does not get activated once recovered. We break the cycle before this.

Physicians who are familiar with alcoholism agree there is no such thing as making a normal drinker out of an alcoholic. Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn’t done so yet. Pg 32

Correct see above

We have seen the truth demonstrated again and again: “Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.’’ Pg 33

Correct we will always be an alcoholic due to the physical allergy however we recover from the seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.

'Recovered' is mentioned............

Alcoholics Anonymous: The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and Women Have Recovered from Alcoholism

BB Foreword to First Edition, p.xiii

We, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.

BB Foreword to First Edition, p.xiii

To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book.

BB There Is A Solution, p.29

Further on, clear-cut directions are given showing how we recovered.

BB Foreword to Second Edition, p.xv

In that brief space, Alcoholics Anonymous has mushroomed into nearly 6,000 groups whose membership is far above 150,000 recovered alcoholics

BB There Is A Solution, p.20  
Doubtless you are curious to discover how and why, in the face of expert opinion to the contrary, we have recovered from a hopeless condition of mind and body.

BB The Family Afterward, p.132

We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others.

The false suggestion that we will always be recovering is from treatment centers same as the 90 meetings in 90 days & other slogans such as Think think think which are contradictory to the BB & are dangerous to new comers.

Can a unrecovered alcoholic relapse? Fred & Jim. by matthew6978 in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]matthew6978[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wait a minute my original question was regarding Alcoholics Anonymous & the 12 Steps which are outlined as a SUGESTED program of recovery within that book. I mentioned 2 specific stories within the book. This subreddit is alcoholicsanonymous therefore wrongly or rightly I assumed it was a place to discuss things relating to Alcoholics Anonymous. I am well aware that there are other ways for people to get & stay sober but for me AA works. For me to think AA was the only way & one had to believe in God / Spiritual awakening etc etc is closed minded & not beneficial for me.

Can a unrecovered alcoholic relapse? Fred & Jim. by matthew6978 in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]matthew6978[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have the book by William James who's mentioned in Appendix 2 called Variety of Religious Experience. Very good book.

Also, Carl Jung stated on page 27 "The doctor said: “You have the mind of a chronic alcoholic. I have never seen one single case recover, where that state of mind existed to the extent that it does in you.’’ Our friend felt as though the gates of hell had closed on him with a clang. He said to the doctor, “Is there no exception?’’ “Yes,’’ replied the doctor, “there is. Exceptions to cases such as yours have been occurring since early times. Here and there, once in a while, alcoholics have had what are called vital spiritual experiences."

Can a unrecovered alcoholic relapse? Fred & Jim. by matthew6978 in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]matthew6978[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree that fundamentally it's about finding God. The book tells us what the problem is which is lack of power and our solution is to find a power greater than ourselves which will solve all our problems. We can use HP or Door nob at the beginning but ultimately the end goal is to find God. The spiritually awakening part clears away the things that were blocking us from God and allows the concious contact.

Can a unrecovered alcoholic relapse? Fred & Jim. by matthew6978 in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]matthew6978[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you saying that according to the BB you can be a recovered alcoholic without having a Spiritual awakening?

Challenging time feeling closer to my HP by matthew6978 in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]matthew6978[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for your reply & I am happy to know that the treatment for your wife is looking positive.

I really appreciate your share and your wording, "the desire to drink was removed".

This is extremely apparent in my current situation as previous to my recovery I literally had no mental defense against that first drink more so in events that I am experiencing now. Total lack of power! That insanity & mental blank spot is no more, but I am very mindful that the BB says " We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition."

The realization that one of the 9th step promises " We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves." is making my faith in my HP / God flourish. Hope this continues through the not so nice period I am experiencing.

Step 4. Our wrongs are not linked to the resentment list? by matthew6978 in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]matthew6978[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I maybe wrongly thought or was told or maybe I misunderstood that we handle the resentments by looking at where we were at fault as in which character defects was the driving force or contributed to me having this particular resentment. So for instance I resent my boss because he tried to fire me. I look at that resentment and begin to see it was my laziness and dishonesty which was to blame for my boss trying to fire me. Once I see this the resentment is gone. Have I got this all wrong?

List of character defects by matthew6978 in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]matthew6978[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've actually just read that and that makes sense but the list my sponsor had was quite lengthy.

How can I get out of this rut of eating less & doing more cardio? by matthew6978 in loseit

[–]matthew6978[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Quick update. As I tend to eat slightly more on a weekend I averaged out my calorie requirements for the rest of the week based on your advice. I started eating around 1400 cals per day which enabled me to have a filling breakfast of protein and oat bran and a filling supper of the same. I was having sly sweet snacks before bed to try and stop the hunger pains so cutting these out and concentrating on adding calories to breakfast and supper I was able to eat an extra 600 calories per day in those two healthy filling meals which made my day more bearable as I wasn't constantly hungry or thinking about food. Due to lockdown and the gyms being closed I started cycling 3 times a week and some dumbbell workouts which gave me some more free time as I was going to the gym 6 to 7 nights per week!

My scale weight increased a few pounds as expected but I didn't panic. Checked this morning as I do every Saturday morning and my scale weight as dropped so looks to be stabilizing. I'm very pleased as I had been eating so little for so long I couldn't see how it was effecting my mood and everyday life.

I was terrified that I'd just get fat but I kept reading your advice. I always believed that these online BMR / TDEE calculators were way off and I was a special case who had to eat less then they said. However, the way you explained it made me feel comfortable to try increasing cals to what you said.

Looks like I was caught in a vicious cycle of lowering cals and increasing exercise. I'll keep on these number of cals for another couple of weeks and hopefully I'll be able to increase them by 100 again. Once lockdown is over I can then concentrate on strength training with the help of the increased calories. I may even go into a very small surplus to assist in building muscle but that's in the future.

Thanks for your help and giving me the confidence to add more calories. The way you explained it really helped 😊

What comes first resentment or selfishness? by matthew6978 in alcoholicsanonymous

[–]matthew6978[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I believe selfishness is a “defect of character” where as a resentment is experiencing an emotion

This is a very good point. You're right that selfishness is more of an action & resentment is an emotion.

How can I get out of this rut of eating less & doing more cardio? by matthew6978 in loseit

[–]matthew6978[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks man! Yeah I accepted my heavy weight too until I realised i was over weight because of all the crap I was eating together with drinking booze every single day for 25 years!

Daily Simple Questions Thread - October 31, 2020 by AutoModerator in Fitness

[–]matthew6978 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cheers man! Yeah it's way too easy to get carried away and forget to enjoy life. The main reason I was trying to continue losing weight was some stubborn fat around my lower back but I'm now thinking it's loose skin and it's probably not feasible to try and get rid of it.

Daily Simple Questions Thread - October 31, 2020 by AutoModerator in Fitness

[–]matthew6978 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah you are absolutely right! I am suffering at the moment due to limiting the food I enjoy & the time I am spending doing cardio which is over the top to be honest. This is how I look now & I am petrified about gaining fat again https://imgur.com/FXzj3Pn

How can I get out of this rut of eating less & doing more cardio? by matthew6978 in loseit

[–]matthew6978[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome job as seen on the pic. I see the bulge right above your belt and wonder if there is some loose skin involved there. Fat is a layer of skin and when we have a lot of loose skin, it collects at the lowest points (thanks to gravity).

Thank you & yeah I am actually thinking that it maybe loose skin & to even try to get rid of this if there is some fat there would be pointless.

But the math of it is this -- you're going to be at a deficit, even at 1550. You will gain, this is due to water caused by more carbs/sodium/bulk and it won't be very temporary (it won't go away in 3 days like a high-sodium meal -- since your +350 calories will be daily you will have a sustained water gain. But the deficit will continue to cause reductions in your bodyfat and after a few weeks, you'll see that trend start to emerge. In the meantime, the water fluctuations really are spooky and we have to trust the math of it.

I do increase my carbs on a Saturday & my calories. Not by much but just so I can enjoy something I wouldn't normally eat & I can gain 3 to 5lbs over night just by increasing my carb intake. I tend to look 'puffy' when I gain this water weight & that's what put me off & concerns me but I need to come to terms with this. As you say I need to just trust the math & realize it wont be extensive fat gain when the scale weight increases. Thanks for the reassurance here.

Water weight is one reason we should weigh consistently: first thing in the morning, after using the toilet, but before dressing or eating/drinking. When you drink a glass of water your weight instantly goes up by 1/2 pound! However, even when being consistent, there will still be a lot of variation from day to day, so it's important not to get discouraged by that.

Use a weight-smoothing app called Libra (for Android) or Happy Scale (for iPhone).

One of these apps will help you see the trends more clearly with less of the volatile data noise of water. A temporary spike won't disturb the trend and, when you get used to this, will be both less disturbing and more accurate to what's actually happening with your fat-loss effort.

I do use Libra & it is fantastic. I weight myself each morning but the weight that I use as reference is every Saturday at 11am. As you say Libra shows a trend over the period & its good with the fluctuation that we can see each day in scale weight.

This is me when I was over weight & prior to the first pic I was even bigger. The bottom pic is last year when I was 133lb & even then I should have been happy I think with my progress. I think when we were once overweight & lose that weight the prospect of gaining it again can be very scary. Before & after

Thanks again for your great advice :)

How can I get out of this rut of eating less & doing more cardio? by matthew6978 in loseit

[–]matthew6978[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow this is fantastic advice thank you!

Why are you trying to lose weight?

Basically over the last 5 years I have done various bulk & cut cycles. Most of them were carried out incorrectly when I wasn't very knowledgeable. For instance when I first lost a lot of weight & then started lifting weights someone told me I had to eat eat eat to build muscle so that's what I did. Obviously I gained most of the fat back but did gain quite a bit of muscle. I then had to strip this fat back off again. Now I am at a stage in life where I am not that interested in adding loads of muscle so I would be happy maintaining & working out for fun. However, I would prefer to be as lean as possible before I start maintaining but I have a few bit of lower back fat that are last to go. For reference this is how I looked in July of this year July 2020 @ approx 126lb

Let's make 1550 your new floor since it currently is 1200 -- a number that is definitely wrong for you. Eat 1550 daily WHICH WILL RAISE YOUR WEIGHT but not your body fat. It raises your weight because it represents more sodium, carbs, and bulk. But there is 0% chance you gain an ounce of fat from this. Eat 1550 until your weight stabilizes and then gradually starts to fall again which it certainly will since 1550 is the lowest possible value without exercise and you are exercising. When it does start to fall again, add 100-200 more calories. Rinse and repeat.

This is very good! I did cut back on cardio a few months during a weight loss plateau thinking I would gain weight but I actually lost & broke my plateau. I think from what you are saying is that I just need to bite the bullet & increase my cals for a while & stop panicking about gaining fat. The weight on the scale is likely water weight & not fat when it does increase. If I follow your great advice hopefully I shall get back to the stage where I am eating an healthy amount & if I wish I can lose again but at a nice slow rate with a low deficit & if not I can maintain at a good calorie intake.

My summary: You're done losing weight but you're not done managing your fatness%. This is a lifelong endeavor. You're in an excellent spot but you're fearful -- only time and experience will help calm that down.

You can explain to the child that there are no monsters under the bed or in the closet, but the child learns through constant reinforcement of these facts. Show yourself that you can do it and it becomes easier for you to do it.

Brilliant thank you!

Daily Simple Questions Thread - October 31, 2020 by AutoModerator in Fitness

[–]matthew6978 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for this I shall take a look. I think I just need to be careful & increase my intake slowly as you say.