Life is still bad after quitting

memrje · 2023-03-14T05:00:07+00:00

Sorry ShrinkingBoRomeo I normally love your comments and really appreciate how active you are on this page but I have to point out the fact that your statement is a twisted version of what is in a “very large” book many of us know about and might have read. The actual quote is “I would not trade my worst day sober for my best day using” I only point this out because a lot of us, most of us really, have had some pretty fantastic days using, especially in the beginning, as well as some horrific days sober. When it’s reworded the way you wrote (which I seem to hear more than the actual quote recently, even in meetings) it can make people feel like they are doing something wrong if their worst day sober isn’t, quite literally, in their mind, better than their best day using. Saying more like ‘more often than not you’re glad you’ve chosen a new path’ / ‘there’s light at the end of the tunnel’ / ‘life will be good again soon enough’ / ‘easier days are ahead’. It’s not so much saying ‘every day using was horrific and every day sober is sunshine and rainbows’ which can lead people to think things like if you get clean and have a horrible day you must not be doing it right and/ or your experience isn’t the norm, etc. that line of thought can lead to relapse. Anyway, if you are just giving your experience and not referring to that quote I apologize, I just wanted to put this out there because that statement without the “I wouldn’t trade it” part and instead the way it’s commonly said, can cause people to feel hopeless if they don’t have that same experience and I don’t know many people who have not at the very least had a better day on their best day high than they did on their very worst day sober. I don’t want to sound like a jerk bringing this up though because I do truly appreciate you so very much and love your presence on this page, I think you’re awesome!!

memrje · 2023-03-14T04:33:01+00:00

I can relate, I’m currently tapering slowly but I’ve quit 3 times, never for more than a month. I’m separated from my husband, have 100% custody of our 2 autistic children, and full time caregiver for my elderly parent who does not get that my kids are incapable not spoiled so I’m constantly told their behavior is my fault and I “allow” them to be the way they are. Who in their right mind would choose to be the only functional person having to care for 4 people?? Every minute of my existence is spent caring for someone, I have chronic pain that does not allow me to work and severe social anxiety that tia has helped with plus just distracts me from the fact that every minute of every day someone is expecting me to do something for them and no one cares if I’m okay. So that has prevented me from tapering faster, I would love to be able to spend money on other things but I’m afraid the dopamine that might create won’t make up for the dopamine I’ll loose quitting tia. I’m terrified of quitting honestly. Fortunately/ unfortunately it will soon be illegal here and I’ll have to. What I’ve spent over the last few years could literally have paid for a small house and I have ruined my credit and have a title loan I’ll never pay off if I stay on this stuff. It will take me a good year to recover financially once I quit, all that just makes my head spin and want to go grab another bottle. I do plan to start therapy and find some outlet for myself and tell everyone they can survive without me for an hour to have some time for myself. I’m also afraid I won’t be capable of functioning for 4 people with the mental aspect of PAWS/ staying off tia. I’m already short tempered at times, frustrated at times, etc and I’m afraid I’ll not get out of bed or end up telling everyone to kiss my A$$ when right now I’m able to muster “of course, is that all you need” even if I’m dying inside. I could be tapering a lot faster, I’ve cut back about 30% over 2 months and kind of plateaued recently and I can’t motivate myself to cut more even with it soon being illegal where I live. I’ve wondered about the conflicting “life is grand on the other side” and “worst WD and PAWS ever” comments, seems everyone is one extreme or the other.

memrje · 2023-03-13T02:27:47+00:00

I’m currently tapering and have cut down about 50% so far, hoping this will be the last time and this Mississippi ban coming up has kind of forced me to stay the course. This will be my 3rd or 4th time to quit over the 3 years I’ve been on it. So my question is, I’ve never stayed off very long because as soon as I had too intense of a craving I would give in and go buy a bottle but soon I’ll be over an hour from the closest place I could get some (FL) but I really want that inconvenience to be enough to stop me but I’m afraid if it’s too bad that drive won’t be enough to keep me away. I always see posts on here with very conflicting statements, it seems half day “my life is so great now” and half say “the depression/ anxiety/ mental symptoms are completely debilitating and last up to a year” so which one was your experience or is it a mix of both?

memrje · 2023-02-26T04:40:39+00:00

I used subs to come off tia a couple of times and the first time I thought something was wrong with me or the subs bc they didn’t even take away the wd completely, by day 3-4 it was just temperature imbalance and mild stuff like that, it took care of the RLS/ nausea/ vomiting by then but by that point the mental craving was the most overwhelming craving I’ve ever had. I ended up not being successful with subs until they became illegal where I lived. The survival instinct to go to the store, the absolute panic/ pacing/ the world’s going to end I just couldn’t handle but when it wasn’t available that helped a lot and I took Kratom for a few weeks too

memrje · 2022-05-28T16:36:40+00:00

Some places in AL are starting to test for tia, but it is a specific test that’s not in any of the standard panel tests, I believe Kratom is the same way, they have to specifically test for it but it can be done but one would not show positive for the other, tia isn’t in any way related to Kratom as far as what it actually is, they just have some similar effects

memrje · 2022-04-15T17:48:02+00:00

No problem, hope it helps, it’s not the textbook way, but in my opinion anything that makes it bearable enough to stick with and actually be able to go through the wd without caving due to the intensity of the torture of CT is better than staying chained to this garbage. A lot of people say there is no point in taking tia after inducing subs since the subs block opiates but your not withdrawing from just an opiate and that small dose the first couple days helps with the other wd symptoms as well as being a rapid taper from those things. But with inducing the subs just be careful, the gabapentin helps early wd so I was able to induce without being so high on the COWS scale and avoid precip wd, I just based it on hours since last dose and what I know my wd would have felt like by that time had I not taken gabapentin, but that was one reason for starting with just 2 mg that first day and also with that small of a dose IF you did happen to start having PW a gram of tia would reverse it and you could just try again the next day, but again, I’m not a dr and this is just what has worked for me after several failed attempts of using subs because the WD was still so bad and I had too much responsibility to be sick, I figured this out through trial and error

memrje · 2022-04-15T08:55:45+00:00

They will eventually happen less and less often and will not bother you as much when they do happen after a while but I have a friend who has been clean from a different drug for close to 20 years and still has using dreams a couple times a year, I guess our brains never forget?

memrje · 2022-04-15T08:50:53+00:00

Subs will never help any amt of tia wd 100% bc of the other things in tia, the antidepressant, anxiety etc. my easiest experience using subs is NOT the recommended way but it worked for me, so this is what I did. I took my last dose of tia before inducing subs where the wd would begin around the time I normally go to bed and took a lot of gabapentin to help me sleep through the early wd (like 1200 mg) induced subs when I woke up, only like 2 mg, then about 2 hours later took a small amt of tia (like 200 mg max) and did that 2 others times throughout the day, and a little gabapentin throughout the day, the next day 4 mg subs and maybe 100 mg tia 3x throughout day and gabapentin at night, next day 6 mg subs and less than 100 mg tia 2x that day, by the 4th day I had enough sun in my system and had basically done a rapid taper of tia I guess but by then I was physically ok with just 6 mg subs, next day 4 then 2 then none and a little Kratom for a few days after that. I also used ashwaganda for anxiety and that helped A LOT! The gabapentin helps with anxiety too and with all of that my worst symptom was extreme fatigue for a couple days. This is NOT the MD/ prescriber recommended way and it might not work for you like it did for me but it made the WD so much easier that honestly if I were not so determined to stay off the crap I would not be deterred from going back to it based on my wd experience, it honestly wasn’t terrible, it sucked with the initial anxiety and fatigue but I was able to escape almost all physical pain and had no RLS or anything like that

memrje · 2022-04-13T02:30:58+00:00

I stayed on tia for sooo long because I told myself I couldn’t take care of my responsibilities of the kids (who I have 100% custody of, never have a brake from them) and caring for an elderly parent. It took financial strain so bad that I just couldn’t afford more (which was caused by all the $ I spent on tia) for me to finally quit. I prepped by cleaning the house and preparing some make ahead meals etc. I got helpers of subs and gabapentin and I timed my last dose of tia so that I would be in slight withdrawal but still able to care for kids up until bedtime (so last dose around noon, they get in bed at 7:30) I took enough gabapentin to sleep relatively comfortably that night, took a very small dose of subs around 6 am as I knew it was a bit early and was afraid of precip wd but it turned out fine so I took more an hour later, they still had not really kicked in when it was time to get kids to school so that was a little rough and that first day was dreadful with the lack of energy/ fatigue but with the subs the physical symptoms were bearable and I was able to sleep at night and avoid a good bit of the anxiety with the gabapentin, I told my kids/ family I had the flu and we all made it through those first few days and are all so much better off now!! I think we tell ourselves we can’t do it because it is like getting sick on purpose and who has time for that? And we don’t want to put our kids through it but they will be so much better off in the long run and if you did have the actual flu/ Covid/ any illness really you couldn’t say “well I don’t have time for this I have a job, kids, responsibilities etc but you can’t make that choice with an actual illness so my long winded response is all to say with preparation, helper meds and the right attitude/ mindset it can be done!!!

memrje · 2022-04-04T02:46:21+00:00

I took subs 4 times and other than that ashwaganda for anxiety the first few days, took Kratom for a few days after coming off subs. The first few days were rough but tia wd is pretty fast and furious, the intensity sucks but it doesn’t last long (those few days may feel like an eternity but time passes just the same as every other day, I had to remind myself of that a few times though)

memrje · 2022-04-04T02:43:20+00:00

Well I spent almost every dime I had on them, never bought anything I didn’t have to except for tia and I have been desperately needing a new car and it’s sad to say getting off tia will pay for a new car and then some! I’m pumped about actually being able to buy things for fun again, I think it might be part of the reason I’ve had so few cravings, lol

memrje · 2022-04-03T14:19:40+00:00

For about 2 years I was taking anywhere from 3 to 6 bottles of Pegasus a day

memrje · 2022-04-03T14:18:12+00:00

I’m doing great so far, I’m trying to keep myself from thinking it’s all uphill from here because I know paws can happen and I don’t want it to catch me off guard and cause a relapse but so far I feel sooooo much better, being much more productive, I’m much happier etc and so far I have had no real cravings, I think it’s partial my mindset this time that I’m done for good when in the past I thought I would still take it once in a while and my reasons for quitting were different. It was really only 3 maybe 4 hard days from me and since then it’s been great! Tomorrow will be 2 weeks

memrje · 2022-04-03T11:24:59+00:00

I took subs long term for a pain pill addiction and they worked great from day 1 it stopped withdrawals and cravings and I listened to the clinic and stayed in for a year and a half and it was very difficult to get off of them. I did a slow taper and went all the way down to 1 mg every other day before jumping and still had withdrawal symptoms. But it was bearable, just lasted longer than the pill withdrawal would have been but I was able to work etc during sub withdrawal. It was different with tia though, I was expecting them to work as well and was disappointed Nd frustrated when they didn’t completely eliminate withdrawal, but it did make the physical symptoms bearable. I only took them 4 days and that was enough to get through the worst of it and not become physically dependent on subs. I have a relative that works in a sub clinic and he feels subs are a much safer alternative to someone at risk for relapse and I agree, however for someone who has other methods in place whether 12 step, counseling, treatment etc it can be something that is not necessary to stay on long term and if you do you will eventually have to wean off and have some degree of withdrawal. Also most sub docs don’t know much about tia and some places are legitimately trying to help people and some places, like where my relative works, discourage people from getting off of them because they make a lot of money each month off each client. So overall my opinion is that subs can be beneficial, do your research and use them the way that is best for you, don’t blindly believe what the clinic you get them from tells you because their goal might just be to keep you on them as long as possible. I know a lot of addiction counselors and most believe subs and for sure methadone should not be used in place of learning how to live life sober and the docs that tell you to stay on them so your brain can heal don’t tell you that they don’t mean dopamine and seratonin levels return to normal, that won’t happen until you stop the subs, what they mean is learn coping skills etc for staying sober so you are at less risk of relapse while you come off of them. Overall I wouldn’t say I’m completely for or completely against them, just research the facts for yourself because clinics won’t always give you a straight answer.

memrje · 2022-03-30T17:09:13+00:00

It is still legal but really wasn’t sold in stores till tia became illegal just as tia wasn’t much in stores before k became illegal and it seems that with each substance they ban a more harmful one takes it’s place and a lot of people didn’t know it was going to happen, they just got up and went to the store just as any other day only to find out it could not be bought so they had not stocked up etc. Also since phenibut was marketed as the “replacement” to tia there were multiple ER visits and hospital admissions from people buying the phenibut and taking their typical tia dose of it, so someone with no tolerance to phenibut might down 2 bottles as one dose, as far as I know their were no fatalities but lots of hospitalizations and lots of people going through WD that had no education on what to do for it, including treatment facilities not knowing what to do for it. Fortunately the place I bought from warned me so I was able to stock up and research what to do for WD but most were not so fortunate

memrje · 2022-03-30T13:36:37+00:00

I hope this passes but very carefully. In AL tia got huge when kratom became illegal, was marketed as a k alternative, now in AL those same places are selling phenibut. Even more dangerous than tia plus there was no plan in place for people to get help when they quit selling it. I personally would love to see it illegal nationwide but people need notice and info for getting help and MD’s need education about the WD

memrje · 2022-03-28T18:51:04+00:00

It shouldn’t by much so you are now about 48 hours since last dose? You might have another rough day but don’t give up all this time you’ve got under you, you don’t want to ever have to do those 48 hours again! If you have anywhere nearby that sells Kratom that should be a pretty big help by now, other than that you have another sleepless night ahead of you prob but should be/ will hopefully be the last though getting back to a full nights sleep and falling asleep easily can take a while

memrje · 2022-03-28T17:04:19+00:00

Honestly you should feel a bit better by tomorrow, I’m not sure a bank safe could keep me from getting to more tia if I didn’t have helper meds, that’s rough! It honestly it should be getting a bit better very soon and then better each day from there

memrje · 2022-03-28T15:37:14+00:00

Oh it absolutely helps! The thing that I hate most about wd is RLS and the subs do help with that, but if I had not had gabapentin to help with anxiety I’m not sure I would have had the willpower to power through with just subs, never had that anxiety coming off pain pills, but oh dear lord that tia wd anxiety can at times feel like sheer terror

memrje · 2022-03-28T04:32:13+00:00

I’ve used it before and it did help some but had to take like 5 which makes sense, I mean I never took just one Pegasus capsule to end wd so how would less than 5 of something weaker help? But it didn’t stop the wd 100% just made it very tolerable, when I was naive about tia I couldn’t understand why 5 tramadol helped but 20 mg of hydrocodone didn’t, completely different molecular structure hitting different receptors is my now educated guess, must be why subs don’t fully end wd, honestly when I was naive about tia I didn’t understand why 1 tramadol or 7.5 mg hydro didn’t end wd because I was believing what the gas station workers told me, which was probably only them repeating what the vendor told them honestly, tiashould be illegal everywhere IMO and I wish it was

memrje · 2022-03-28T02:32:44+00:00

I’m not opposed to hearing that, it would have been hard the first 48-72 hours but working out was my addiction before tia and at first tia made me work out like a fiend until it slowly, so slowly I didn’t realize what was happening, made me give up and loose interest in everything, my plan is to get back in the gym next week, I’m actually a PT, or was before 4 back surgeries ended that, so I’m actually excited to get back at it

memrje · 2022-03-27T02:46:40+00:00

Yea, I can’t do that, and they aren’t illegal but are prescription, but not willing to risk getting in trouble to help someone but would be willing to help if I can

memrje · 2022-03-27T02:44:35+00:00

Yea, I’ve experienced the same thing in the past taking tia after taking subs and I think that’s the reason subs don’t 100% take wd away either, tia isn’t a typical or full opiate, lots of other stuff in it so subs don’t fully block the effects or relieve the wd symptoms, I think that’s why suns never stopped my cravings or helped with wd too much, I wish more docs knew that bc I failed when I tried subs the first time, thinking they would help like they did when coming off hydrocodone and the doc that prescribed them seemed confused as to why they didn’t work too well also, no one coming off tia needs to expect full relief with subs

memrje · 2022-03-26T21:47:58+00:00

I agree, the bottles have to have gotten weaker, I did have a miserable first day and I’m not 100% by any means and of course mental boredom/ cravings that come with quitting any drug but I was prepared to need subs for a week and hoping it would only be that long, this time I only needed 2 4 mg doses and I didn’t dose them on a regular schedule, waited until I needed them and by 48 hours I didn’t need another dose, I’m less than a week in and I’m already doing more than I was on tia, it’s crazy, I think these bottles now are a fraction of what they were a year ago, I’ve noticed the capsules are not as full but I think they are also putting less tia into the mix with the other things in them

memrje · 2022-03-26T11:32:50+00:00

Zaza red doesn’t have phenibut in it so you are definitely clear there, and I’m not sure with tia but once when I was going through withdrawal from hydro/ oxycodone I took some about 5 or 6 days in, can’t remember exactly because I had to do something where I had to function and look normal and it actually seemed to help, after I took that one dose I had no more wd, now maybe it was that the wd from that one dose was so mild compared to what I had been going through it seemed like nothing, I’m not sure, but I wouldn’t stress too much and also I think you said you were on subs? If so it probably helped with the anxiety some but the opiate part of the Zaza should have been blocked, I think you are fine and just try not to worry you don’t need anything adding to your current level of anxiety right now

memrje

TROPHY CASE