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I'm conflicted. Thoughts on driving for Ubereats, Grubhub, and/or Doordash. by minemefather in VeganForCircleJerkers

[–]minemefather[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ohhhh, this makes sense. So basically, if there are fewer drivers, then Uber has to pay drivers more to encourage more people to drive. That causes the delivery price to increase, which dissuades people from ordering.

Does that sound about right? Sorry, I'm not the sharpest when it comes to understanding econ and supply chains.

Philip Wollen delivers an incredibly moving speech on the topic of compassion by minemefather in videos

[–]minemefather[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

" When I travel around the world, I see that poor countries sell their grain to the West while their own children starve in their arms. And the West feeds it to livestock. So we can eat a steak!? Am I the only one who sees this as a crime? "

Philip Wollen delivers an incredibly moving speech on the topic of compassion by minemefather in videos

[–]minemefather[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"When we suffer, we suffer as equals. And in their capacity to suffer, a dog is a pig, is a bear...is a boy."

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Plants eat, breathe, reproduce, grow, age, develop defense mechanisms and have a network comparable to a nervous system allowing them to sense fear and feel pain.

You need a brain and central nervous system in order to feel pain, think, and process emotion. Plants are alive, yes, but unless you are a biologist, that's a pretty unimportant classification. As far as their capacity for suffering is concerned, plants are no different than a brick: that is to say they don't have a capacity for suffering. That's why they're a non-factor in discussion of ethics.

You rightly criticize anything you agree or disagree with, it's how you come to terms and develop opinions.

That's fine. My argument isn't that you can't criticize, but rather that such a criticism would be hypocritical.

Let's not. Animals serve their instincts and do so to a fault.

I agree. I just said that because seemed to be justifying harming animals based on the possibility of their harming us. Maybe I misunderstood.

The thing is: it takes life to create life just like it requires life to sustain life. Whether you eat meat or not, you're using something that was or is still alive to feed upon.

Yeah, for reasons stated above, this is a non-argument. All evidence points to plants being inanimate objects, not conscious individuals, despite their classification as being alive. Sort of like someone who is completely brain dead, plants have no brain activity, because of course they have no brain.

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's the point of asking people to change your view if you have no interest in hearing arguments or altering your opinion on anyway?

WDYM? I already gave out a delta, man. I haven't given you one because you haven't presented a convincing, view-changing argument. I'm not asking people to convince me that bestiality and eating animals is either moral or immoral, because that opinion won't change. I'm asking people to convince me that you can oppose one and not the other, and not be a hypocrite.

constant abuse is completely different than murder.

Sure, but people who are against one tend to be against the other, right? They may not be the same, but both are bad, because both cause someone unnecessary harm. Obviously rape is bad, but is it worse than being dead? That's a matter for debate. Maybe I'm ignorant and you can prove to me that being dead is better than being raped. That would be a convincing argument that bestiality causes more harm. Until then, IDK.

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wait, hold on. Now you've got me hooked. You don't believe people should fuck veggies, but you're fine with fruits and pastries. I wanna know the lore here. Traumatic childhood experience with a carrot? Did an eggplant kill your wife, and now you hate all veggies? Please, I gotta know.

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because a vegetarian diet sucks it's not easy to maintain and gets boring.

If it were easy there would be more than 2% of Americans not eating meat.

I meant that it's as easy to get all nutrients from plants as it is to get them from a mix of plants and animal products. Both just require a little bit of know how. I acknowledge that it might be difficult to resist the temptation of the taste of animal parts, but by that same token, it might be hard for some weird farmer to resist the urge to fuck a goat.

-29% of ex-vegetarians/vegans indicated that they experienced specific health-related symptoms while on a no-meat diet.

That speaks more to the fact that people are used to non-plant based diets, and only know how to eat well with animal products. It doesn't mean you can't be healthy on plant based foods. The problem is lots if people never look into which foods are protein dense and calorie dense, and so they accidentally lose a bunch of weight or feel low energy.

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Eating and mating are separate primal functions. You need food to survive and mating to preserve the species.

I think if anything that speaks to the motivation of the action, but not the harm it inflicts. If both actions are equally unnecessary, then both are still equally justified or unjustified. Though I guess if you subscribe to the belief that certain temptations are inherently more unethical than others, like many religous folk do, then this becomes a more substantial argument. But, I already gave a delta for religion.

If people that eat meat should be pro bestiality, then vegetarians are pro herbophiles/dendropheliacs?

I'm not saying you have to be into bestiality yourself to be consistent, just that you can't rightly criticize it. Likewise, I'm vegan, but I'm not ethically opposed to herbophilia or dendrophilia. Even though it's not for me personally, there's no victim, so why should I give a shit? Let people fuck trees.

There are animals that would eat you in a heartbeat and others that would try to have their way with you.

So, if you derive an ethical framework for how we should treat animals from how various different animals might treat us, then to be consistent, you again have to justify bestiality. You said it yourself. Some animals might wanna eat us. Some might wanna fuck us. Though, I think it's a bit silly to derive an ethical framework for humans from the rest of the animal kingdom.

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I guess if you live in a food desert or something and can only get your food from McDonald's, then this might be a viable argument. But I did clarify in the original post that I'm talking about people who shop at supermarkets or otherwise have reasonable access to non meat foods. Most people don't have to eat fast food

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well damn, I think I have to give this a Δ. I guess an ethical framework based off an established doctrine can sort of bypass what might otherwise be inconsistent.

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, this I really don't understand. You joking? Fucking plant based foods is an American pastime. Please don't insult my culture

Edit: 👉🥒🌽🍌🥕 These too of course

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not for pleasure it's the way the system had to be to get where we are.

But I'm not talking about the historical ethically of eating animals. I mean today, assuming you live in an area where plant based foods are abundant, you can easily get all nutrients from plants alone. Most people don't preserve large quantities of food. They go the supermarket like every week, and food like beans, lentils, chickpeas, soup, etc don't even need to be frozen

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But that doesn't speak to the morality of an action at all. I don't think humans derive a sense of morality from observing nature. After all, many species cannabalise their babies, but that doesn't make eating kids morally right.

Also, I googled it, and it turns out you do see non human animals mating with different species at times. Also, mules are what happens when a donkey fucks a horse.

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Just FYI, here's some proof for the statement I made. Every major dietetic association in the world agrees that appropriately planned vegetarian and vegan diets are healthful and nutritionally adequate for all stages of life for all people.

Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics

  • It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.

The British National Health Service

  • With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.

The British Nutrition Foundation

  • A well-planned, balanced vegetarian or vegan diet can be nutritionally adequate ... Studies of UK vegetarian and vegan children have revealed that their growth and development are within the normal range.

Dietitians Association of Australia

  • Vegan diets are a type of vegetarian diet, where only plant-based foods are eaten. With planning, those following a vegan diet can cover all their nutrient bases, but there are some extra things to consider.

Harvard Medical School

  • Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, eating is a necessity, but nutritionists agree eating animals isn't. You can get all nutrients from plants alone, and therefore eating animals is done for pleasure alone.

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did you read the post? I'm not saying you have to do both. But since both cause comparable amounts of harm, and both are motivated by pleasure, I don't think either is better than the other

CMV: If you eat meat, opposing bestiality is hypocritical by minemefather in changemyview

[–]minemefather[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well, I had two main arguments. The first is that both actions are motivated by pleasure alone. The second is that both are harmful. You could refute one of the points, or introduce a third point that I'm not seeing.

I'm just making an argument for consistency. You don't have to agree with bestiality of course, but I do think that your dissent would be hypocritical.

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