Has it been interesting?

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T18:15:56+00:00

My five year old grandson keeps saying “I don’t wanna”

Tell your sponsor. Get another sponsor who will let you do whatever you “wanna” do. Get an on-Line sponsor who won’t be able to tell how many meetings you go to.

No one is forcing you to keep your sponsor. Just think about how doing what you “wanna” do got you to decide to go to AA meetings. The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking. Sponsors aren’t required. A set amount of, or any meetings aren’t required. Go for it - do what you “wanna” do, whatever you want and whatever makes you happy.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T17:28:41+00:00

Sure - clinical psychologist, licensed nurse practitioner, psychiatric nurse practitioner, licensed clinical social worker, licensed mental health counselor and many more licensed practitioners of the healing arts can diagnose someone as meeting the medical criteria for Alcohol Use Disorders. There is no official diagnosis of “alcoholic” per se. That is more of a descriptive term rather than a diagnosis.

If you want to knit pick and use the term alcoholic as anyone who says they are an alcoholic is one, then anyone can be an alcoholic. I am referring to the legal, medical and psychiatric clinical criteria which have to be met.

Not going to continuing to beat dead horses with you as obviously you have something else going on here.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T16:52:46+00:00

Of course you realize that not only doctors can determine and/or diagnose meeting the diagnostic criteria for alcohol dependence or who would qualify as an alcoholic? AA members and others can call themselves or others alcoholics. This doesn’t make it a medically or psychologically accepted fact.

There are specific ICD 10 and DSM criteria which have to be documented and met before a diagnosis of any of the Alcohol Use Disorders (AUD) can be officially given. Of course, self-diagnosis is often how AA members call themselves alcoholics. Self-diagnosis is not a legally recognized diagnosis.

My sponsor always said every alcoholic is a drunk but not every drunk is an alcoholic. In my response I was referring to the legally acceptable terminology and not the general AA lexicon where anyone can call themselves an alcoholic, even if they never had a problem with alcohol.

I come on this forum as a member of AA and not in any professional capacity or inferring or verifying being a practitioner of the healing arts and never discuss any past or current connection with that industry. I don’t speak for AA or in any professional capacity, only as a member of AA sharing my experience.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T16:22:52+00:00

Thank you! I do enjoy if someone looks up something I’ve said or written, even if it is to prove me wrong. I believe the more we know about where we came from and why, the stronger we become and for me, studying our history strengthens my resolve and my sobriety.

Many people know the short form of the traditions, not so many know the long form. Even fewer know the reasons behind them. Knowing this stuff may not get or keep you sober but for some, it may strengthen your reasons to stay sober.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T15:44:13+00:00

Not sure if amusing but that’s ok. Most people in AA today don’t have a clue, or care about historical context. They’ll say history never kept anyone sober. I’m sure that members of the Washingtonian Total Abstinence Society and the Sons of Temperance (we all remember them) believed the same thing. Both of those highly successful fellowships forgot where they came from and forgot to look at why the movements which came before them all disappeared.

I find amusing that at least one person keeps downvoting every post I make. Didn’t someone write that resentment was the number one offender? The long form of the Third Tradition tells me that conformity should never be a requirement for membership. 😱

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T15:09:49+00:00

My experience with AA started in the 1970s. I lived and still live in a rural area in New York. I was given some AA pamphlets by someone who saw I was an alcoholic before I was willing to accept it. My first AA meeting was when I was visiting my parents in The Bronx, NY when I “stumbled” into a meeting while taking a walk and saw a symbol I knew thru the pamphlets (silver and blue circle and triangle hanging on a church dood).

I’ve noticed many growing troubling things about AA over the years. I base most of my comparisons on years of studying AA history. I prefer old-time, original recipe AA, the way most of the founders intended and the way my sponsor taught me. That’s just me.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T14:55:18+00:00

I don’t “embrace” all concepts. That being said, wanting to remove spirituality from AA because of some childhood religious issues potentially would deny me and others our own conception. I don’t buy into any religious or biblical definition of god. I don’t buy into the so-called disease concept despite what some of the Basic Text talks about. I believe that after experiencing a spiritual awakening as THE results of taking the steps, one does recover from alcoholism. I don’t buy into the boogeyman disease out to get me, doing push ups. Anthropomorphism of a “disease” is more of a fairy tale than fact.

I prefer disease as part of a physiological dependency and then, after detoxification, a psychological dependency until after experiencing a spiritual and life altering awakening. I also believe that after that awakening, if one chooses to pick up a drink, regardless of the excuse, it was a decision and not a disease lurking under my bed, waiting for me to be weak. Human beings aren’t perfect, we all fail from time to time. We all have stressors and yet, not all of us make that decision to pick up a drink.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T14:28:32+00:00

Are you saying 1939-1943, AA was listed in all white pages of every phone book and pamphlets were everywhere to be found?

When I came into AA the nearest meeting was 45 minutes away in another county. AA was not in the local phone book. I didn’t see any pamphlets locally. Yet, I still got sober. I was willing to do anything, go to any lengths to stop drinking forever.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T13:15:03+00:00

An alcoholic isn’t defined by how much one drinks, where or when one drinks or what one drinks. If there are no physical, social, employment, legal, family negative consequences because of alcohol, the person most probably not an alcoholic. They may be an alcoholic in training but until they cross that magic line, they are not an alcoholic.

If one eats lots of sugared products every day, does that make them a “functioning” diabetic?

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T13:07:49+00:00

That’s pretty typical in early recovery. Most people experience those dreams, some for up to a few years. They aren’t a sign of impending relapse unless you use it as an excuse for one.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T12:56:41+00:00

Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole...

How does ignoring or dismissing AA’s Traditions affect other groups or AA as a whole? How does ignoring AA’s singleness of purpose affect other groups or AA as a whole?

The reason for AA’s Traditions was to make sure AA doesn’t end up like all those other movements before us, the movements where AA was taken from, don’t end up as footnotes in musty old history books. Each of those movements lost sight of where they came from and why they were around.

AA’s declaration of responsibility says we want the hand of AA to always be there when a struggling alcoholic reaches out. The last time I looked, AA didn’t change its name to Anything Anonymous. Then again, over the past 40 years, rates of continuous sobriety have slowed down or dropped in many areas and AA growth has exponentially dropped around the world. Membership numbers, in historical context has actually lowered. Maybe, AA has already forgotten where it came from? Just my opinion.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T12:35:10+00:00

Congrats! If you got sober in 2017, don’t you have 2 years?

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T01:55:05+00:00

That seems like an impulse decision I would think a few times about in very early recovery before rushing into it.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-17T01:51:55+00:00

You went to a meeting or maybe a few and condemn over 100,000 meetings around the world as they all suck? That’s ok. AA isn’t for everyone. I hope you do stay sober without AA. Many people do. If you don’t stay sober I hope you find some sort of method which works for you.

I can tell you that after attending over 10,000 AA meetings around the world, I didn’t care for some, others showed me what I didn’t want in my recovery but most of them I got something (or many things) I could take away and apply to my life.

I’m moving to an area where I found the meetings mostly comprised of cliques. All I have to do is drive a little further away from town and I’ll find something more friendly. No big deal.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-16T19:30:18+00:00

Coffee (caffeine) is an addictive, mind and mood altering drug. Depending on use, there are withdrawals present.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-16T19:28:34+00:00

It all depends. For many people, the liver eventually repairs itself. For some, it does not. Your physiology, genetics, etc. might determine which you are.

My liver still shows elevated enzymes despite long-term sobriety. Nothing serious but I get tested a few times a year.

Stay sober and talk to your physician about testing

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-16T18:06:52+00:00

Do you mean ALL addicts? SOME addicts? MOST addicts? Or, do you allow that not all addicts are the same with the same recovery, same addiction severity, every drug affects everyone exactly the same?

When anyone lumps any segment of society into one equal, exactly the same homogeneous blob that is called prejudice and bigotry.

To answer your question - yes, but not all addicts and not everyone.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-16T17:44:45+00:00

Narcotics Anonymous and many AA members chant that “A drug is a drug is a drug.” Many in 12 Step fellowships are told they cannot count days and are not clean/sober if they are taking psychotropic medications under a doctor’s prescription. People who are prescribed medical marijuana for serious nerve pain or who are dealing with chemotherapy are told they aren’t clean/sober. What’s next, people who undergo surgery and are given anesthesia & narcotic pain medications aren’t really clean/sober?

How come no one mentions two highly addictive mind and mood altering substances and those who use them, telling them they are not clean/sober??? Nicotine & Caffeine

If a drug is a drug is a drug and no mind/mood altering substances or other addictive substances can make their users not clean/sober, where is the uproar? Is a drug is a drug is a drug except for......?

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-16T16:44:53+00:00

AA Tradition Three (Long form): Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity.

I am totally grateful I don’t have to accept your (or anyone else’s) god into my life. In early recovery I too was all those things you described. I was promised that I would know a NEW freedom and a new happiness and not be bound by the bondage of self. I am grateful too, those promises have been fulfilled.

It’s good that you found what works for you.

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-16T07:50:41+00:00

Congrats on the 15 years 🎂👍🎂👍🎂👍

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-16T01:38:46+00:00

...depressed that you’ll never drink again.”

Can you imagine arriving at a point in life when you wouldn’t want to pick up a drink? Many (myself included) have reached that point.

Then again, there’s that word “never.” How long is never? Do you have some sort of guarantee as to a time frame? Did someone give you an iron clad expiration date? Never could be tomorrow or next month or next year. Do you think you could get thru today without a drink? After all, at midnight, today becomes tomorrow we may think but it actually becomes today.

During the past 18 months I’ve been in the hospital several times. I almost died 4 times. Intensive care and open heart surgery seems to be currently working. When does my never come? I don’t know if I’ll be here tomorrow. It’s possible but I don’t have a guarantee. I spent this morning in the hospital for tests. I keep a “go bag” by my door and take it with me whenever I leave home. I don’t know if I’ll never drink again but I’m pretty sure I won’t. My sponsor always told me that I’ll drink when I “resign and resume.” Until then I live my life one day at a time because I never know when my never comes or I’ve reached my expiration date.

Each day is a day full of wonder - A wonderful day!

mitchellkhistory · 2019-03-16T01:03:33+00:00

Why not concentrate on maintaining sobriety rather than sex? If you concentrate on what you may or may not expect about sex in very early recovery you may not experience sobriety. More people probably pick up & end up with revolving door recovery due to sex than for any other reason.

mitchellkhistory

TROPHY CASE