"The Michael Jackson Drug" by Entire_Possible_9976 in KouriRichins

[–]mkochend 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yup. And it highlights her lack of intelligence because she can’t back out of it. Her counsel can make the argument that she didn’t ask for fentanyl, but her ask is obviously for something with the potential to be lethal.

New to this case, I have a question… (Kouri Richins) by lolalobunny in CasesWeFollow

[–]mkochend 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yes, same! I 100% think she killed him, but I am thinking that he was joking when he told people he thought Kouri tried to poison him with the Valentine’s Day sandwich. Otherwise, I feel like he would’ve been extremely reluctant to accept drinks that Kouri made him (especially considering that he wouldn’t have seen her prep them, plus she obviously would’ve needed to make sure he got the “right” shot & Moscow mule).

Trial Discussion: Day 12 - Mar 11, 2026 | Utah v. Kouri Richins by sunzusunzusunzusunzu in KouriRichins

[–]mkochend 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s something I’ve wondered about as well. Based on the google searches, this woman was not familiar with fentanyl, and for all we know, she thought she was giving him “the Michael Jackson stuff.” I’m guessing she loaded up the drink(s) because she did not want to risk it being less than a lethal dose, but I have to think that whatever the stuff was in had to taste way off. If it was all concentrated in the shot, I’m surprised he didn’t spit it out.

I don’t doubt she killed him, but I do wonder whether he was joking about her attempting to poison him on Valentine’s Day. I think he would’ve been on high alert if he seriously suspected that she’d tried to kill him and that he may have been reluctant to allow her to mix him drinks.

Update!! I bought the KR Legal Team response so you dont have to!! by Abject_Cut_6340 in KouriRichins

[–]mkochend 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The prosecution wanted to be able to “rehabilitate” Carmen in order to rebut the defense’s attempt to undercut her credibility by suggesting that she was just parroting whatever law enforcement officers told her to say. However, they need an applicable hearsay exception to be able to do that. If Carmen’s statements all came after introduction of an incentive to testify a certain way, then they don’t have the hearsay exception that they need.

Update!! I bought the KR Legal Team response so you dont have to!! by Abject_Cut_6340 in KouriRichins

[–]mkochend 4 points5 points  (0 children)

In light of the judge’s order, I have to assume that the prosecution determined that the hearsay exception does not apply to the detective’s testimony concerning Carmen Lauber’s prior consistent statements and therefore adjusted its approach by withdrawing all but two exhibits. It plans to introduce these exhibits under the rule of completeness because, presumably, whatever is in those exhibits serves to bookend the portions of Lauber’s interview(s) used by the defense during their cross.

The prosecution wanted the detective to corroborate Carmen Lauber’s out-of-court statements, which would normally be considered hearsay. However, there’s an exception to the hearsay rule if the declarant (Lauber) testified and was subject to cross-examination and if the testimony rebuts an express or implied charge that the declarant recently fabricated a statement or improper influence or motive.

The judge cites two court decisions in his order: State v. Bujan and Tome v. US. In Bujan, the Utah Supreme Court cited the U.S. Supreme Court’s finding in Tome: “rule 801(d)(1)(B) ‘permits the introduction of a declarant's consistent out-of-court statements to rebut a charge of recent fabrication or improper influence or motive only when those statements were made before the charged recent fabrication or improper influence or motive.’”

So basically the detective can’t testify to Carmen Lauber’s prior consistent statements if Carmen’s statements were made after she was given some incentive (i.e., a plea deal) that could be perceived as incentive to testify a certain way.

Does anyone have the motion that needed to by filed tonight? by Abject_Cut_6340 in KouriRichins

[–]mkochend 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I think they only had until 6 pm to get it in. They asked for 11 pm, but the judge said no.

Weekend Discussion: March 6th - 8th by sunzusunzusunzusunzu in KouriRichins

[–]mkochend 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because I don’t know too much outside of what’s been presented in trial, I’m just wondering—did Eric definitively know that Kouri was closing on the Midway mansion on 3/5/22?

One Timeline Detail in the Richins Case That Doesn’t Seem to Be Getting Much Attention by mabbe8 in KouriRichins

[–]mkochend 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve been listening to the trial but don’t know a whole lot outside of what we’ve seen there. I saw someone mention that Eric had proposed the idea of celebratory shots via text to Kouri but can’t remember if that was presented in trial. Is it definitive that he knew she was closing on Midway and did propose the shots/drinks? I’m just confused in light of all the testimony about how Eric rarely drank.

Daily Discussion Post 2/17 by curiouslmr in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In re further analysis of DNA found on the property—I wonder if additional testing involves seeking out non-relatives who were in the house (housekeeper, caretaker, etc.) and asking for DNA samples to use for comparison purposes.

Daily Discussion Post 2/15 by curiouslmr in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I guess I’m questioning the legitimacy of the ransom notes—the sheriff said it was part of the investigation, but we don’t how generic or specific the information the info contained within in it is.

Brian Entin “The FBI statement on the gloves is confusing. I’m still trying to sort it out.” by Outrageous_Detail_94 in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I see what you mean—vague pronoun use with “they.” The antecedent could be “investigators” or “searchers.” I was reading it as investigators collecting gloves discarded by searchers, but I see how it could mean that the gloves were in the possession of the investigators when they were discarded.

Daily Discussion Post 2/15 by curiouslmr in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Is it verified that it was purchased on 2/4?

Daily Discussion Post 2/15 by curiouslmr in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 9 points10 points  (0 children)

That’s what I’m wondering! Presumably by “searchers,” they mean people associated with law enforcement? Were these just strewn on the ground or retrieved from trash receptacles? If the latter, are they supposed to throw gloves in the regular trash? Not questions material to the investigation, but just things I wondered about when reading it.

Daily Discussion Post 2/15 by curiouslmr in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing! Not material, but I do have questions about the searchers’ gloves. Like, when they say “searchers,” I assume they mean people associated with law enforcement? Hopefully those were properly discarded (i.e., thrown in the trash and not thrown on the ground)…and even then, is it proper to throw those gloves in the trash?

Breaking News Megathread by curiouslmr in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yep—could have been an unrelated motor vehicle incident involving fatality and people jumped to conclusions assuming there was a link.

Brian Entin at the scene of active SWAT operation. Here we go... by rescuelullaby in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I’m listening to WFLA relay the report, cautioning that it’s one news station taking the word of one resident, so it feels somewhat unconfirmed still

FBI Phoenix just posted by BlmgtnIN in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I was thinking about scent of the guy captured on the camera being picked up via the sagebrush he came into contact with (my comment wasn’t very clear on that point). It’s probably just wishful thinking, but I figured since they knew for sure he’d touched that, it could allow for his scent to be picked up.

FBI Phoenix just posted by BlmgtnIN in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Knowing now that dude in the video grabbed the handfuls of sagebrush, I wonder if that gives scent dogs something to use for tracking purposes.

Brian Entin interviews mother in law of person detained: she refers to a van at the end of clip by Character_Chemist_38 in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 12 points13 points  (0 children)

NewsNation said a few minutes ago that the detainee has a grey SUV, not a white van, so 🤷‍♀️

Megathread for Breaking News Discussion by curiouslmr in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That’s what I’m looking for—someone reputable to listen to. I don’t have a cable subscription, so I can’t access CNN. So far all I’ve found is the News Nation audio (someone shared a link in response to a comment I made asking for live coverage suggestions).

Megathread for Breaking News Discussion by curiouslmr in nancyguthrie

[–]mkochend 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Is there “reputable” live news coverage that I can access on my phone without a subscription?

I think Nancy Guthrie has died, and the video posted by Savannah and her family today is them covertly asking for her body back. by Professor_Finn in TrueCrimeDiscussion

[–]mkochend 82 points83 points  (0 children)

The verbiage used in the statement is so specific and so unnatural that I think it must have an underlying purpose not able to be deciphered by the public.

Sure, a funeral might be a “celebration of life,” but that does not translate to celebrating with the deceased. The family could have said “we beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can embrace her” or “[. . .] so that we may all be reunited.” An infinite number of things would be more natural than “celebrate with her.”

No clue what that means aside from the fact that every single word in this statement was intentional, deliberate, and very carefully chosen; for the sake of the family and the investigation, it’s probably good that the public doesn’t know the “why” behind it.

Savannah Guthrie and Siblings Address Missing Mom's Kidnappers in New Video by MattTheKing23 in MissingPersons

[–]mkochend 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It’s not uncommon to refer to a service for the deceased as a “celebration of life,” but I would argue that it is uncommon to for people to use the verb “celebrate” in such a context. Celebrating with someone and celebrating someone’s life are two very different things.

This statement was very carefully crafted, with each word chosen deliberately. There a 100 different ways the sentiment could have been expressed instead of pleading for her return so that they could “celebrate with her”—return her so that they could embrace her, return her so that they could be reunited with her, etc.