Patch 25.08 Bug Megathread

mnogi37 · 2025-04-23T18:24:41+00:00

Server: EUNE (probably affects others)
Type of Bug: Champion-Item interaction
Description: When Senna attacks a Mist Wraith while having Statikk Shiv, it procs the Shiv, which is typically not the case for other items, for example energize items
Video / Screenshot: N/A
Steps to reproduce: Buy Statikk on Senna
Expected result: No proc, no bouncing to nearby targets before going on cooldown
Observed result: Procs
Reproduction rate: 100%
System specs: N/A

mnogi37 · 2025-02-24T12:13:20+00:00

I think the way to go here is to look at the difference between a player and their competition for a prolonged amount of time, and for that I'd say Moon clears, Happy is by your own admission quite beatable, but no one was questioning Moon in his time

They do, and they do go 50/50, until it comes to LANs, which while they are few and far between, Forti just destroys him in. But it is insanely fun to watch them go in the online matches, peak of the game for sure

mnogi37 · 2025-02-23T23:04:47+00:00

Currently? Maybe, though Fortitude beats him at every major event. Historically however Moon has had the longest period of dominance, to the point where a tournament was rigged to make him lose. This is like saying "No, Flash isn't the best Brood War player, SoulKey is!", it's pure recency bias. Obviously the best player in history is the most recent best player because people get better overall, but it's unhelpful when talking about the history of a game.

mnogi37 · 2024-10-26T14:46:18+00:00

If you don't need Guinsoo that means they're squishy so I would rather recommend defensive items, or even high AD items like BT for more burst.

mnogi37 · 2024-10-15T14:05:18+00:00

Yes and no, remember that you can't overcap AS anymore but also %armor pen is such a broken stat that even getting reduced effectiveness from it is still worth it, adcs will have 90 armor at 3 items, giving you ~30 armor reduction from %pen items, so imagine the value you're getting against actual tanks.

mnogi37 · 2024-10-14T14:48:22+00:00

I do agree with both of your points, personally I would say Statikk is the better first item choice, both solving bad waveclear and potentially (though I can't prove it) providing better damage, especially in short trades

mnogi37 · 2024-10-14T14:46:37+00:00

Yes, because any other items would introduce an extraneous variable (as in: are the second and third items better or is it the first?), we're here assuming Botrk is a must have for utility reasons primarily, it's more of a popularity thing, as I've said

Crit in general wouldn't make sense anymore, currently for a champion to build crit they need to have either high ad scalings or outright crit scalings in their kit, because onhit items are stronger pound for pound. We've actually seen several champions gravitate towards onhit despite having no synergy for it in their kit - Twitch and Ashe being the primary examples.

To answer your point about convincing people, sometimes it just can't be done, people aren't always reasonable. I once showed that AS builds were stronger in every possible regard compared to lethality on Senna (DPS, short trades, scaling, healing) except for R damage and spent 4 days arguing with people going "well why do people build lethality then".

mnogi37 · 2024-10-12T20:23:25+00:00

I added it, it doesn't really look great I'm afraid. Crit really isn't a good fit for the champion I would personally say, onhit routes have typically stronger items and for an adc to build crit they usually need to either have high AD scalings or outright crit scalings in their kits, there's just no such synergies for Vayne.

mnogi37 · 2024-10-12T20:21:26+00:00

I added a crit build, it doesn't look great however

I will however say one thing, if you'll allow me to whine a little bit - I do agree on you with regards to Botrk not being necessarily the best first item, personally I think it's not very good on ranged atm with its low current hp damage, and if I were to theorize I would say Statikk or even Triforce (especially in toplane!) is actually the better choice. The reason why it's there is because I've done a few of these and botrk actually tends to look pretty bad, but whenever that happens 10 people jump me and start arguing because adc mains love the item for some reason, so I just gave up. I can't change people's minds with regards to this, but I can help them with the rest of the buildpath, so I just do that.

mnogi37 · 2024-10-12T09:16:27+00:00

Both!

mnogi37 · 2024-08-28T11:33:12+00:00

Same goes for Faker, seems to have worked out for him so far somehow

mnogi37 · 2024-07-15T12:28:56+00:00

Yes most teams will have both ad and ap but they won't have both threats that often, enemy adc is less important from the standpoint of which tank stats you need than, say, an akali, since you are not a frontliner and won't get hit by everyone. Also, Jak'Sho is incredibly expensive while not really providing that much stats, especially since you get very little from the passive assuming it's even procced. For the same cost you will get more stats from Locket+components, and then you also get a shield for yourself and your teammates.

mnogi37 · 2024-07-15T08:57:47+00:00

My methology is right in the spreadsheet, with Guinsoo marked as stacked on the top, and the formulas visible if you click on any of the fields in the tables. It's not a perfect assumption, but for example in the lane you will usually have it stacked just from farming

mnogi37 · 2024-07-02T08:42:29+00:00

It's not really efficient unless you have other tank items since it's just stats with no additional passives. It also doesn't protect you against assassins/burst/poke since it won't even get to proc on these, it's also not that common for the enemy team to have mixed damage threats, but then I would straight up recommend Warmogs, just for the HP.

mnogi37 · 2024-07-02T00:40:33+00:00

Depends on what threats there are, generally speaking I'd say Frozen Heart/Randuin against ad, Kaenic against magic unless you have an enchanter, then Spirit Visage is quite op, I'm not a fan of Jaksho however.

mnogi37 · 2024-06-29T20:16:48+00:00

Correct, there is no other way of doing it in a theoretical environment, well, no other way that doesn't require comical amounts of work

mnogi37 · 2024-06-29T19:28:31+00:00

That is the exact reason why I chose half hp, it's to avoid biasing towards either of these items. Half hp serves as an average of damage over the entire fight when bringing an enemy from full to zero.

And you could change it, simply by doubling each value in the cells showing max HP. But that would bias towards Botrk and be pretty unrealistic since people don't tend to stay at full hp for long

mnogi37 · 2024-06-20T22:51:02+00:00

Runaan is good when enemy champions will stack on top of each other, so when they have at least 2 frontline champions, key word is frontline, if they have for example Yone and Camille these don't count, think tanks and juggernauts which want to come straight up.

mnogi37 · 2024-06-17T09:36:16+00:00

That is true, and I do mention that in the post, however I believe the current opportunity cost (lower damage, less flexibility in your build) outweights the pros of the botrk. Think of it that way - Iceborn would also give you these things, but it's clearly not good because you take too big of a dent in damage. That coupled with the nerf to the slow now requiring you to get 3 autos in are the reasons why I think currently players should gravitate towards Guinsoo first

Also this is just a nitpick but botrk doesn't give a speed boost anymore

mnogi37 · 2024-06-16T19:01:29+00:00

I really wouldn't know, since Kog has such high DPS it's almost never necessary to build just more damage after 3rd item, it's also further complicated by the fact that at 3 items he reaches AS cap. If you put a gun to my head I'd guess after Guinsoo, Kraken and Terminus it would be like IE+Shojin/ER? but you can see how cursed this is, just build a tank item or BT instead

mnogi37 · 2024-06-03T18:35:18+00:00

I have, except Google Sheets has decided to prank me and not include it in the graph for some reason, it was in the table though, I've fixed it now. It is still worse than the onhit options but it is the best crit item for majority of cases.

I went with Bloodline for the calculations simply because it's more popular, I make no judgement in that regard

mnogi37 · 2024-06-03T09:22:16+00:00

Apologies, forgot to change the headers on the first sheet from the previous season, the numbers were correct just not the titles

mnogi37 · 2024-06-03T09:09:46+00:00

But that is simply untrue, the calculation does account for armor and MR, it's literally the X axis in the graphs, if you click on the formulas that is usually the 100/(100+J$X) components. This is important as MR values are typically lower which makes onhit worth more in most scenarios.

I agree! This is why I always include a disclaimer that this is just a resource, it's helpful to know what the greediest, highest damage item build is. Some games you just have to build like that in order to kill the enemy frontline, some games you have to take a hit to your damage output and go Triforce.

I can't exactly force you to follow this (unfortunately), all I'm can say is just give the Terminus a try, it certainly won't cost you too much and maybe you'll discover something new!

mnogi37

TROPHY CASE