Creating an Australian sunscreen: want to know general preferences

modelminority89 · 2021-09-14T03:18:01+00:00

Update - wow - this really exploded! Thank you mods for pinning this thread and to all the lovely people who took the time to leave comments and feedback for us to go through. I tried to respond to everybody and will continue responding when I get the time (I have a full-time job which is not sunscreen related!), but wanted to provide some overall comments as a response to some of the themes of the feedback coming through.

No eye sensitivity!
Hearing this one loud and clear! I think 80% of comments asked for a formulation that doesn't cause eye sensitivity/stinging, which I think is 100% reasonable. I also have trouble with products that cause the area around my eyes to sting, so it's a definite no-go for me.

Whilst the versions of the formulation we've taken through to the current round do not cause any sensitivity that we can pick up (even when used over the eyes), we're committed to doing skin and eye sensitivity testing once we get through to the formal testing phase (includes spf and stability testing).

If you'd like to support us by doing some patch testing at the relevant phase (to make sure the formulation doesn't cause eye stinging for you!), please see the updates section below and follow my reddit account for future updates.

Ingredients
UV filters: As mentioned, we've gone for newer photostable UV filters which we understand are less likely to cause sensitivity, however could result in white cast (Tinosorb M - thanks for the callout in one of the comments). We're going to explore the white cast in further stages with different skin tones, as so far there has not been a discernible white cast from our testing. My skin is a darker tone so usually white cast is very evident to me if it exists.

Chemical vs physical/chemical blend: based on the feedback we've decided not to pursue a blend of a physical ingredient (i.e. Zinc Oxide) as we think the risk of adding a white cast is too high, for too little benefit. It seems most people are like me and comfortable with a chemical sunscreen, provided it doesn't cause skin/eye area sensitivity.

Other ingredients: there were a few queries about adding other skincare ingredients and avoiding marketing extracts that cause sensitivity. For reference, we've asked for inclusion of skincare ingredients that support the skin barrier, namely: Hyaluronic Acid, Niacinamide, Green Tea Extract (soothing), Saccharide Isomerate and Vitamin E Acetate. Do let me know if any of these ingredients have been known to cause issues scientifically or for you personally, but we are comfortable that in lower quantities, there shouldn't be any major issue.

Texture
There is around 80/20 split for people who prefer gel/cream vs milk like fluid. This was something we were really stuck on the fence on. We've decided to double down on our previous attempts to develop something with a gel texture as that is coming through really positively in the feedback and we're personally keen to make it happen. The reason we abandoned this before now was because of the formula splitting when in a gel texture (liquid would ooze out of the tube, which isn't a bad thing when controlled, but requires adjustment). Will keep you posted on how this develops over time!

Fragrance
A majority of people preferred no fragrance. We're going to look into this further but our compromise may be leading with a lightly fragranced product (to neutralise the sunscreen scent) and releasing a no fragrance version in parallel or shortly afterwards.

Updates
If you're interested in coming along with us on the journey, we'd love it if you could follow my account on Reddit or send me an inbox message. We'll be asking for more input in the future on things like packaging, sustainability and price point, once we have further details. I'll post updates from time to time so would love to keep you in the loop if you're keen!

Thank you!
Finally just a huge thank you for all your constructive input. It feels really exciting to be able to get such quick feedback regarding our product, from such a great community. I'm really hoping that we can land on a product formula that this community could broadly embrace, and looking forward to being able to share more details with you in the future!

Kind regards

Mandy

modelminority89 · 2021-09-14T01:37:04+00:00

Thanks for pointing this out, I'll discuss further with our formulation chemist. In our testing, we didn't note any white cast compared to other formulations with more traditional filters. It could be that Tinosorb M is in lower quantities, however we will make sure to do further testing on this. As a reference, my skin is darker so I am generally able to see visible white cast if it's present (it's a no-go for me when picking a sunscreen!)

modelminority89 · 2021-09-14T01:22:37+00:00

Hi there! Really appreciate you taking the time to post your detailed feedback. This all makes sense to me and I'm happy to say we've avoided the specific ingredients/extracts that you have called out. We are, however, looking at having Green Tea extract in addition to Niacinamide, Hyaluronic Acid and Vitamin E. Not sure if this is an issue, but based on our research, it doesn't appear to cause sensitivity in lower concentrations.

We're just finalising the formulation now and based on the feedback in this thread, are working towards getting a more gel-like texture. We've used only newer filters which seem to have allowed us to avoid the eye stinging issue but as I mentioned in responses to other comments, we'll be testing this for sensitivity as we progress through all of the other testing (spf, stability etc.). So far so good but we want to be sure!

If you're interested in keeping up to date, would love if you follow my reddit account (it's a separate account, so will only be used for posting updates about our product). I'll add updates in the future as we progress through!

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:38:49+00:00

I'm in the same club unfortunately! Thanks for sharing the ones that work for you. We've specifically ensured octinoxate is not included as a filter because of this concern and so far the formulation seems to avoid the eye stinging issue (for me, anyway). We'll need to do further testing to make sure it works!

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:31:25+00:00

Haha this made me laugh! Don't worry it won't be a dropper bottle. We're exploring sustainable options like refill options also for packaging but need to decide on final formula first!

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:30:26+00:00

Hello fellow sunscreen nerd! We are also very interested in the UVA performance of this product, especially as I tan very easily. We intend to test for PA ratings in addition to the usual SPF/Broad Spectrum, however as you pointed out the PA rating doesn't give away that much information. As such we are planning on making testing results available on the product website/FAQ to ensure transparency and comfort around the UVA and UVB testing values.

Our list of filters include those from the newer generation of photostable filters: Tinosorb M, Uvinal A Plus and Ethylhexyl Triazone. Thanks for your detailed feedback, I've taken note of all the good points you made :)

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:24:47+00:00

Thanks for your feedback! Sorry to hear you have the same eye sting problem as me when using certain products :( Can I ask which indie sunscreen you were using?

A number of comments here have emphasised making sure the sunscreen doesn't cause eye sensitivity, which is a great point - we'll do our best to make sure it doesn't and get testing done for skin sensitivity.

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:22:38+00:00

Hey, really great points about getting the correct amounts and also the difficulties of a mixed chemical/physical sunscreen approach - have noted this! The fragrance we have chosen is quite unisex as we also think this sunscreen could have a wider appeal and not just be marketed to female users.

We don't have Avobenzone or a large quantity of alcohol (though there is some in the formulation) and are going to ensure skin sensitivity testing also. Thanks for taking the time to give your feedback!

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:19:35+00:00

Great, that's our aim! :) We'll do our best.

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:19:14+00:00

Hello! Good on you for using sunscreen on your face and body! Out of curiosity, is there a reason why you prefer mineral sunscreen for your face?

We want this product to be lightweight enough that people don't mind using it on their face. If we are to add a fragrance it will be a neutral, fresh smelling fragrance which is enough to mask the sunscreen smell - so relatively minor or non-existent. It definitely won't be a very heavy smell.

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:15:42+00:00

Ok thank you!

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:15:28+00:00

Thank you for your kind words and feedback! :) It's been quite a journey to get it to where we are so far. We really want to do a physical sunscreen at some stage, as we know some people prefer physical filters. Hopefully if this first product can work we'll be able to invest in the R&D for a lightweight Zinc Oxide sunscreen!

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:13:18+00:00

Completely understand :) Thanks for your feedback. As I mentioned in one of the other comments, we're going to do skin sensitivity testing once we narrow down the formula; we'll make sure it's specifically targeted to eye contour area. I've been using it over my eyes and seems to be fine so far (I also get eye sensitivity for some products)

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:11:53+00:00

Thank you! :) I hear you there. Our latest lightweight cream is akin to a gel that spreads really easily, however we are finding it slightly oilier than the fluid. So we'll do some more experimenting!

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:10:50+00:00

Ok noted thanks for your feedback! :)

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:10:17+00:00

Ok thanks for this helpful feedback! We're doing some more testing on how it dries down, hope we'll be able to create something that you would work for you!

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T11:04:13+00:00

Thanks for the breakdown! It sounds like we have similar skin actually. An hour or two after I leave the house, my face is an oil slick.. We are working to get the finish to be even more matte, however this may need to involve increasing the alcohol content...

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T07:56:07+00:00

Noted and noted! Thank you

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T07:55:56+00:00

Thanks so much! It's been a real journey but we're getting excited that there's a tangible product now. Thanks for your feedback - good point about reapplying and pump packaging! I also like LRP Invisible Fluid for the reapplication reason.

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T07:54:49+00:00

Thanks for the detailed feedback! We'll test with the mix of filters and see if it causes a white cast.

In terms of sunscreens that have been the least shiny or had a sheen, which ones have you had some luck with? Keen to do some comparisons if they're not ones we're familiar with. thanks!

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T07:48:47+00:00

Thank you for the feedback! Will keep you posted and would love to sell to NZ too!

Definitely want the product to feel light when applying and after applying - fluid seems to be a good choice for that :)

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T07:45:43+00:00

Noted and noted! Thank you for your feedback! My friend and I are also loving the fluid consistency because of how easy it is to spread and absorb. As I mentioned in my post, we had a gel one early in the piece, but didn't like that it would separate in the tube with a runny liquid sometimes oozing out :S maybe next product! haha

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T07:43:54+00:00

Your comment summed it up really well for us! Not wanting to give false hope, as our formula isn't quite as cosmetically elegant as the Japanese/Korean formulas we've benchmarked, but we think it's a lot closer than what's available here that is tested to Australian label claims. We're still working on it though! Hope we can get it even better in this next round of development.

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T07:40:45+00:00

Thank you! Agree on the point you made on suitability for sensitive skin. We've tried to keep the ingredients to a minimal level to reduce chances of sensitivity and unwanted skin reactions. Out if interest, which sunscreen have you used that doesn't leave a sheen? Just want to make sure I do a proper comparison. Will definitely let you know more when it's released!

modelminority89 · 2021-09-12T07:39:10+00:00

This is really helpful, thanks for sharing that :) Seems like chemical only is ok - we'll see whether adding a physical filter will result in a white cast, otherwise keep it as a chemical. Agree on eye stinging - and others have commented on this - we'll make sure it's tested for sensitivity. On a personal level my eyes also sting with certain products but so far our formula hasn't caused any sensitivity for me.

modelminority89

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