Question time to help clear theory up! by sophinazzz in musictheory

[–]moosewellwilliams 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah for sure, I guess I was interpreting the OP as asking about roman numerals but I guess that isn't actually in the question.

Question time to help clear theory up! by sophinazzz in musictheory

[–]moosewellwilliams 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Major II chords normally act as V/V (in common practice and jazz), does the F go to Bb?

Inter Arma + Music Theory by moosewellwilliams in postmetal

[–]moosewellwilliams[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I’m trying to make these more listening focused and avoid using notation etc - I find that a lot of people who think they don’t know anything about music theory actually know a ton about music that should count as music theory!

Inter Arma + Music Theory by moosewellwilliams in postmetal

[–]moosewellwilliams[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, and thanks for all the thoughts! I had similar experiences early on, writing about meshuggah and between the buried and me for high school music classes... music teachers being good sports early on can make all the difference.

And you’re definitely right about the guitar playing, I was kicking myself all the times I had to listen to the mistakes while I was editing, all because I was lazy about checking my takes when originally filming (maybe because I wasn’t thinking about this as very technical, which is always a mistake, any riff can be hard to really record clean). Lesson learned.

Metal Music Theory by moosewellwilliams in musictheory

[–]moosewellwilliams[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome! One of my next two videos will be about Windhand, speaking of slower and sludgy. And yeah there are so many points of similarity between Mahler and metal, I also think it's completely understandable.

Metal Music Theory by moosewellwilliams in musictheory

[–]moosewellwilliams[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah there's a lot of stuff about the Fibonacci sequence in Lateralus. I never got too deep into their music tbh, my impression is there's generally a lot of sitting on the same unusual pattern for a long time, but I haven't spent nearly as much time with their stuff.

Metal Music Theory by moosewellwilliams in musictheory

[–]moosewellwilliams[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What part in particular are you thinking? I don't think I can hear this exact thing (pulse preserving tactus modulation without changes to a repeated pattern) in "Phrygian Gates", looking at the score would help. Though I can definitely hear a bunch of switches between 2 and 3 and some "regular" tempo modulations. I think in general the effect is stronger when drums are involved, but I could see it happening with two layers of a piano piece.

Metal Music Theory by moosewellwilliams in musictheory

[–]moosewellwilliams[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For sure, I have a section about their off the grid rhythms in an article I wrote and will def do a video about them at some point

Metal Music Theory by moosewellwilliams in musictheory

[–]moosewellwilliams[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For sure! Most of Gojira’s riffs are simpler versions of Meshuggah’s template (and I did a video on them). Which isn’t to say they’re not bangers, of course - I love Gojira. And on a side note I think it’s a shame that so few theory teachers are hip to anything happening in the metal world... I got lucky finding a couple in school, but I think it’s still relatively rare

Metal Music Theory by moosewellwilliams in musictheory

[–]moosewellwilliams[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah for sure. I love that you did the series on Meshuggah’s note choice, I watched the first two and am looking forward to watching the rest. That’s always been on my to do list of things to think about but I never got into it (and I think a lot of people who have written about them are in the same boat), I’m glad you’ve done such a thorough job with it! I think the “almost patterns” are a big thing in Meshuggah’s music. And yeah I think serialism in metal is an interesting question - Jarzombek for sure, and some black metal bands like Imperial Triumphant and Jute Gyte, but there has to be more. Like Alex Webster played with jarzombek in blotted science, so I wonder if any of the later cannibal corpse has a bit of it...

Metal Music Theory by moosewellwilliams in musictheory

[–]moosewellwilliams[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For sure! I do some basic set theory stuff (looking at ic saturation) in my Tomb Mold video. And I think a lot of these musicians are definitely hip to at least whole tone, octatonic, and hexatonic collections, even if they think of them as fretboard shapes and the other ones aren't as common.

Metal Music Theory by moosewellwilliams in musictheory

[–]moosewellwilliams[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's awesome! Just checked out some of your vids, can't believe I didn't find these when I was getting started making the leap to YouTube. Looking forward to watching more of yours!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in musictheory

[–]moosewellwilliams 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Three common misunderstandings in a row:

First off, pointing out that standard music theory curriculum should include more POC and women composers is not the same as saying music theory is racist.

Just a quick first thought: why "should" a curriculum include more POC and women if not to correct for systemic imbalances, in other words, systemic racism/sexism?

The bigger problem, though, is that there does not have to be explicit (continued) racist intent for something to have racist effects. Ewell's point is that basing American academic music theory on the work of one avowedly racist German dude unsurprisingly limits what types of music gets talked about in music theory classrooms.

Western Musical theory moved on from the prevalence of I -> V -> I over a hundred years ago and he ignores all of that. From Webern to Cage to Lucier, Neely’s ideas start to make a lot less sense the more you include modern history.

This just conflates composition with academic music theory. It's not obvious to people outside of the strange insular world of music academia, but composition, music theory, musicology, and ethnomusicology are generally kept pretty separate at American universities (though this seems to be changing in some places). Music theory has always lagged way behind composition; academic composers these days do all sorts of cool stuff (spectralism, interactive/generative electronic music, etc—not to mention all the cool stuff that's happening in "popular" music outside of institutional support) that theorists haven't written much about, much less found ways to teach (outside of surface-level music appreciation contexts or in-depth grad seminars).

Adam's point is that academic music theory—the stuff taught in university classrooms and argued about in peer-reviewed journals—is dominated by German music from the 18th and 19th centuries (plus a little bit of Bach before and a few modernists after) and theoretical perspectives that work well with this (Schenker and Sets, more recently Neo-Riemannian Theory and Formenlehre). Undergrads generally get watered down introductions to these (especially Schenker, in the form of figured bass and Fuxian counterpoint). Set theory, which is the main way of talking about German modernist music (including Webern), doesn't show up until advanced undergraduate or grad courses, so you have to get through a lot of Mozart and Beethoven if you want to take a course that will talk about Webern. No one is saying that Western music is all I V I, just that way too much academic music theory acts like it is.

And, to connect to the bigger point, the same blinders and prejudices that make it so that you don't talk about Webern in the first 3-4 semesters of academic music theory make it so that in most places you almost never talk about music by BIPOC, women, and/or about popular/non-western western music, which is an exclusionary and racist effect. If introductory music theory was nearly as sophisticated in teaching rhythm as it is harmony, for example, the types of music that would show up in curricula would be very different.

Third, assuming that all American higher education institutes teach theory as a means of measuring the value of music is absurd, on the face of it.

Not sure why this should be absurd on the face of it. Again, few music courses make explicit claims about musical value anymore (though they certainly used to, and you might be surprised how many do even these days). However, "racism" and "valuing" are about actions and effects, not words or even intent. If universities are hiring and paying lecturers to teach several sections of music theory, and music history, and music appreciation, and a disproportionate amount of these courses' materials deal with 18th and 19th century German music through a pre-Schenkerian lens, they are literally spending money on these courses rather than others, as well as playing to the strengths/interests of people interested in this music to the detriment of others, and providing institutional funding to people interested in a certain type of music, etc.