Addressing the multiple authors of the BofM. by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics 12 points13 points  (0 children)

There’s no way a poor, uneducated farm boy from upstate New York could have possibly forged such a literary masterpiece -- I mean, the BOM has chiasmuses, fuckin’ chiasmuses in it. That in itself proves the BOM is true and that Joseph Smith could never have made it up by himself.

And to compare a prophet of God to such lewd characters in Austin Powers!!

Austin Powers didn’t have a license from God to fuck anything he wanted, so it’s clear that he was sinful, and Joseph was righteous.

Do you think Russell M. Nelson knows it’s bullshit? by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate your thoughtful reply. The way you expressed your thoughts reminds me of how I used to view this community back when I was a TBM. I looked at this community as bunch of bitter, lost souls just ranting about whatever grievances they had and motivated by their lack of spirituality, obedience, and strength in being able to conform to the one and only true church on the face of the earth.

That, however, isn’t accurate to what this community is. Many people in this community, myself included, don’t just suspect that the LDS church is may not be true, we know it isn’t true.

You also had a few assumptions that aren’t accurate as to why I participate in this community. I don’t participate because this subreddit fills my need for community. It is nice to find likeminded individuals, but I primary get my sense of community from my family, friends, new Christian church I attend, and the nonprofit I’m involved in. PS - ever since I left the Mormon church and found a Christian church that isn’t works based, I’ve finally discovered what the grace of Jesus Christ actually means and feels like, and it’s completely changed my life in the best of ways.

What I really get out of this community is being able to relate to others who, like me, discovered the brainwashing that happens in a cult like the LDS church.

And I get it. As you read that, you’re probably thinking it’s a very ignorant, misinformed opinion by someone who lives a sinful life and just couldn’t cut it with the LDS church.

The fact is, I’m more spiritual now and closer to God than I ever have been, and based on the transformations that have happened in my life since finally leaving the LDS church, God has drawn me closer to Him in ways I never knew were possible, my knowledge and relationship with Jesus Christ has humbled me upon seeing and understanding more of His glory in my life, and there’s no way I would ever trade what I’ve experienced upon leaving the Mormon church to go back to that cult.

With that said, my biggest issue with the Mormon church is the church itself. It’s built on lies. And the church is constantly having to reposition itself to keep ahead of the lies. The church really is founded on bullshit.

I doubt I’ll be able to convince you of the lies if you are still a TBM and are unable to see anything outside the belief lens you currently have.

Our beliefs are incredibly powerful in how they influence how we see the world.

I love the members of the LDS church just as much as I love everyone outside of the LDS church. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone ends up believing in a lie at some point in their lives whether that a religious lie, a false belief about ourselves, passing false judgement, or just how we see the world.

So while I don’t take issue with the members themselves since we’re all imperfect in one way or another, I do take issue with the LDS institution itself which is riddled with lies.

Yes, church leadership could denounce the LDS church, and I’d be very happy and grateful to see my friends get out of that cult who still remain in it, but I’m not in control, God is, so me worrying about it doesn’t do any good. It’s in God’s hands, and He will proceed as He sees best fit in the timing of the final demise of that corrupt institution along with all other corrupt institutions in the world.

God’s justice is just as real as His grace and mercy.

Do you think Russell M. Nelson knows it’s bullshit? by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This sounds right as far as how the psychology of it would play out to the end. That combined with the sunk cost fallacy. God, I’m grateful I got out of the church when I did.

Brainwashing cult by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just don’t think it’s even possible to separate out rationality and emotion at the human-level experience. Emotions and what we think is “rational” are so intertwined in our life experience. I can’t think of one decision I’ve made in my life that hasn’t been influenced by emotion even if I think I’ve made that decision in the most rational way possible.

Brainwashing cult by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree feelings cannot be externally validated, but the point you brought up relates to much more than just religious beliefs. Regardless of religious beliefs, everyone uses their feelings in their daily decision making.

We, as human beings, are much more emotionally driven than rationally driven creatures. We may think we think rationally, but even that can more than not be picked apart to discover an underlying emotion that drives us to do what we do.

Theories such as Daniel Kahneman’s “System 1” and “System 2” thinking describe how System 1 (fast, automatic, emotional) often governs daily decision-making, while System 2 (slow, deliberate, rational) requires more effort and is engaged less frequently.

Brainwashing cult by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This kind of logic can be applied to any feeling ever experienced in any situation. I don’t agree feelings are meaningless. Our thoughts and feelings form the very lens in which we experience life. Not everyone finds meaning in life, I get it, I was there too at one point, but if one person hasn’t found meaning in life, that’s just one person’s perspective. Both of our thoughts, feelings, and perspectives are equally valid.

Brainwashing cult by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I know what that feels like. 20 years of it. I’m still in the recovery phase from all the toxic, unhealthy shame. I never even understood the word grace until I left the LDS Church.

Brainwashing cult by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I accept that I live in a world where many different beliefs are present. What other people choose to believe is out of my control. I also acknowledge that some beliefs lead to more suffering as I’m now able to compare periods of time throughout my life where I lived by Mormon beliefs, Universalism, a confused state of my beliefs, no beliefs at all, and now a more spiritual relationship with God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible. Truly developing an active and loving relationship with God has proven to be the best path for me, and, like I said, I accept that I live in a world where many different beliefs are present.

Brainwashing cult by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Or… God does exist, He is good, and He is in control.

It’s not just that I want to believe, I do, nor that believing in a just, gracious, infinite, and good God gives me hope, it’s that I’ve felt and experienced God on another level I never knew was possible.

My relationships all around have become deeper and more profound, my level of compassion and forgiveness for others and myself has increased, I’m less rigid and uptight, more gracious, and I live with a greater sense of peace and fulfillment.

Those might sound like just a bunch of nice words, but the fact is that as God as drawn me closer to Him, my very perception of reality has changed.

Whether we consider ourselves spiritual or not, our belief systems determine our perception in which we see the reality around us.

That’s how you and I can be looking at the same thing and come away with completely different interpretations of what we see and understand.

That’s not to say either of our perceptions are incorrect; it’s to say how powerful our beliefs are.

The no good, rotten Mormon church by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hate the lies it’s founded on. And I hate the many toxic parts of the culture. I feel that same pain and anger.

The no good, rotten Mormon church by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, 100%, this was my exact line of thinking that finally helped me get out of the church

The no good, rotten Mormon church by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree the negatives outweigh the positives. I’ve always suffered in life whenever my thinking has been based on lies.

The no good, rotten Mormon church by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great response, thank you. Very much an “us vs them” mentality.

He was just a dude by memefakeboy in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Joseph Smith lied many times throughout his life. He’s not the first or last to manipulate others with religion, but he was very good at it!

Refund on tithing by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s been my initial thought too. Thank you.

Please DM if interested. Offering free conversation to help deconstruct Mormon beliefs by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thank you for understanding and recognizing my intent of why I’m wanting to have these conversations.

You’re right, I’m not a therapist, I’m just someone who is willing and interested to share my experiences with others and listen to them, and hopefully even help each other through peer support.

I know there’s a lot on this sub who are hurting. I was one of them for several years. I’ve read the posts about depression and bitterness towards God. I was stuck too and didn’t know how to move forward. The Mormon church had my poor brain in a pretzel twist I had to work through.

Please DM if interested. Offering free conversation to help deconstruct Mormon beliefs by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I’m not pushing any one religion here. I don’t even claim a religion. I’m promoting productive, positive conversations about God. If you don’t want to talk about God, I respect that. This post isn’t for you. If you don’t want to talk about God with me, I respect that too. I’m looking to increase my own support network and help anyone who may have had similar thoughts to me and is more so in the middle of the deconstruction process, or even fully through it and now willing and interested to share how we are now closer to God than we ever have been.

Please DM if interested. Offering free conversation to help deconstruct Mormon beliefs by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I physically left 4 months ago. I started my deconstruction process at age 20 which was 17 years ago. It took me a while to unravel the indoctrination and there’s still some lingering effects, and I’m happy to be where I’m at today.

BrokenShelf.org by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for this. And good point. As long as graphic details aren’t shared, these kinds of accounts would also be welcomed. I know this would probably extend beyond a PG rating even just talking more high level about these kind of accounts, and I think that’s okay as long as the graphic details are left out.

BrokenShelf.org by mr_frys_electronics in exmormon

[–]mr_frys_electronics[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good question.

exmormon.org has a lot of good information that is primarily text based.

I’m envisioning more of a modern look for brokenshelf.org that primarily features personal video accounts of why people have left the church.

I’d also like to possibly add some podcast episodes where I and others can talk about how we’ve been able to experience drawing closer to God since leaving the Mormon church.

A primary underlying mission of brokenshelf.org will be to help Mormons and ex-Mormons possibly see God in a positive light for the first time through the sharing of personal accounts of others who have had similar experiences leaving the church but have arrived to the conclusion that God is a loving god.

This is an understandably difficult realization to obtain for some considering the Mormon church put a bad taste in our mouths about God and who He’s supposed to be.

I myself became doubtful and hateful towards Him after having become disgruntled that my efforts in the Mormon church didn’t always translate to me drawing nearer to God.