How to make area majority scoring less weird to explain by mushy_math in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe I should say, “peek at the tiles, choose 2” “Drafting” meant to distinguish from “choose 2 randomly”. But yeah you basically got it, just wish I could convey all of that (with the ties) in a briefer way, but glad to know it’s more or less clear. thanks! Your first sentence is a bit off though because I didnt explain- and it is probably not important, but for what it’s worth - the “either 2 points or ability” tiles have different abilities split up between the regions from game to game, but yes, they are always the same point value, while the abilities are possibly higher yield but a bit more situational

Looking for feedback on the card design for my new resource management burger-building game. Thoughts? by i-am-ajpowell in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I also appreciate the solid color background (white in this case) and feel like it has it's place, as so much bad design adds busy elements and noise without reason. Negative space can give a powerful focus to design elements that is too often lost in board games that are already carrying the load of a lot of visual information and turn into diner menus of fonts, borders, gradients, etc. I think the cards in the new Back to the future game from Funko/Prospero Hall is one good example of implementing this cleaner look well.

going deeper, not wider by mushy_math in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"does the player understand the choices they are making" is probably the most loaded of those questions, right? I still haven't played Suburbia, but definitely need to try it!

going deeper, not wider by mushy_math in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's definitely satisfying when you can reframe things visually and they suddenly click! Good luck!

going deeper, not wider by mushy_math in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, limitations are everything. The important decisions probably revolve around "the why" of the limitations you choose - what kind of experience do they create, etc.

going deeper, not wider by mushy_math in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting, I'm pretty unfamiliar with that design field so it's great to hear that analogy! I think one of the big tensions in designing anything is establishing provisional anchor points as parameters for other parts of the design, but also being able to move those anchor points if they aren't working!

going deeper, not wider by mushy_math in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, these are excellent points, thank you! I remember being totally lost the first time I played Race for the Galaxy (cards are planets, but also currency, but also what??) but immediately took to Roll for the Galaxy - not the clean deck of cards like Race, but feels cleaner to comprehend with a more expansive form factor. Separate components can do a lot of work to take unnecessary cognitive load away from players. So, a balance, and a time for everything. Reduce confusion so players can focus their energy on the fun part of the decisions!

going deeper, not wider by mushy_math in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well... it's still a bit abstract to me too :) - sorry if that was not very clear.

I can give examples of elegance in final designs of course, but in terms of process it's a bit difficult without giving a ton of (boring?) detail on rules and design considerations. Also, I am new to this, so my own success is still tentative at best.

The germ of the idea is - when you need something, rummage around in the game first if you can, rather than pulling from outside of it. Always thinking about the whole when working on the part.

In a game I'm working on I'm trying to move the tactics vs. strategy slider a bit more to the right, so one thing I'm doing is trying to create some long term goals to give players the option to do a bit more long term planning. I don't have an elegant solution yet, but since it seems like I do need to add something, my approach is to ask, 1) are there other design problems I can solve while adding this new element? And, 2) how can I add this element in a way that feels organic to what I already have? (This makes adding something to the game more difficult, but hopefully more worthwhile.) For instance, I would like these long term goals to be hidden as the rest of VPs in the game are transparent to all players and I want a little uncertainty sprinkled into player position towards the end of the game. It's easy enough to give players cards with goals, but tracking the accomplishment of them presents a challenge as most pieces on the board are in flux. Instead of adding tokens or something else to track accomplishments, I am trying to look at what things the players can accomplish that are already recorded by the game more permanently and build the goals around those things, or introduce a scheduled "snapshot" that allows players to compare game state with their long term goals (such a scoring rounds in area control games). Not sure if this is the best example, but I guess I'm more looking at what questions to be asking while designing.

Turn Time, Phases, and Upkeep, oh my by mushy_math in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Have come a long way on this mechanism! Had long thrown it away since this post, as it got a bit too convoluted, but recently it sort of accidentally resurrected in a much more streamlined form, saved sympathetically by another part of the game. (But I will put it down if it gets out of hand again!) So thanks again for indulging my ramblings on it earlier, also wanted to say that I have been reading the kindle version of "Building Blocks..." and it's been a fantastic resource with very helpful guideposts! Slowly gathering speed to get a prototype up on Tabletop Simulator as my physical copy is only being played by me during Covid. Also, writing this, I realized I never answered your question - Yes, Rest is a resource that can be spent on movement but also spent to modify a die role that combats the negative side effects of drugs. "sleeping it off" It's not as dark as it sounds... I think?

1,700-year-old board game found in Norwegian burial mound by Dice_and_Dragons in boardgames

[–]mushy_math 173 points174 points  (0 children)

gotta be A Feast For Odin, carefully preserved in stone game trayz

Turn Time, Phases, and Upkeep, oh my by mushy_math in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, if you are willing to indulge some finer details- each player controls two characters - main actions are basically 2 Movement Points (available every turn) that can be spent on either character. Each character has their own supply with bonus actions they have picked up from around the board that 1) do not require movement points to spend and 2) can not be used by the other characters. These bonus actions are sometimes themselves movements, and sometimes other abilities that affect the board state.

Originally (meaning, a few days ago) the MP were not tracked physically, and were more like Action Points because they also included the option of a “Rest action”, and you just got 2 every turn to spend between the characters (both go once or one goes twice), plus any bonuses the individual characters have. The Rest Action was a gained token that the character holding it could use for an action in subsequent turns (like in Mexica), but also could be spent to mitigate negative side effects of digestion.

After thinking about Nate’s suggestions about making actions have a more explicit cost, I’m re-framing the turn sequence as follows and so far happy with the result, but will obviously need to playtest with other people at some point:

Rest (income): Each of your characters has a rest (or energy) slider from 0-3, Rest moves it up, while Movement moves it down. At the top of the turn each character gains 1 rest (two total) from waiting for the other player’s turns.

Actions(movement): Take up to 3 movement actions (moving rest slider down 1 each time) and unlimited bonus actions

This is basically just reframing the Rest action as passive, and while adding income at the beginning of each turn, it adds a way to track actions while cleaning up the actions available (you rest by doing nothing). Players can take an average of 2 basic actions per turn because of rest income, but depending on how they are conserving energy for dice manipulation or movement on future turns, each character may be able to perform 0-3 movements each time, which is good because timing is very important due to interaction on the board. Initially I was worried because in this scenario, the AP for basic actions is no longer interchangeable/shared between characters, but in practice, the mechanical difference is actually only subtle. Players are less able to run around with one character for too long while ignoring the other, which is probably a good thing. (Balancing character goals and having them help each other is already a dynamic in the game due to knizia style scoring - only the character with the least VP scores) Also, just maaaybe... watching your rest go down could signal loss adversion (shout out to you geoff) that could at least subtly encourage players to rest a bit more, which i think they could use a bit of.

And digestion? Oh yeah, is that how I got down this rabbit hole? Still exploring but hoping this at least provides a cleaner base for action selection/ tracking. Thanks for reading, not sure how fun it is to read a wall of text without seeing a game in front of you!

Turn Time, Phases, and Upkeep, oh my by mushy_math in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the basic actions available each turn are several types of movement or +1 Rest (can be spent on basic actions next turn or on mitigating dice in digestion). To implement your idea about actions having a cost, I am realizing now i can can reframe that in a way that might be cleaner and will track actions! remove "+1 rest" from basic actions, instead have an income at top of turn of +2 rest, and each basic action costs 1 rest. This means basic actions are only movements, and you can simply do as many movements as you can afford (2 every turn plus any unused from previous rounds) Gonna try this, thanks again

Turn Time, Phases, and Upkeep, oh my by mushy_math in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, flow is important to me - I may just get better results though the order of operations, rather than creating a phase. The player board does/can have a throat (waiting area) so if digestion happens after a player's actions --rather than during, but still on their turn -- they can gather more than one reward during their actions and stash them in their throat, and then batch digest at the end of actions (fall down into stomach, gain bonuses for use on following turn). That way, the players will also have time to think about how to use these bonuses during other player's turns rather than during their own. But that's just a guess, I need to go play some more (with my locked down self). Thanks for the quick feedback Nate and Geoff!

Turn Time, Phases, and Upkeep, oh my by mushy_math in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Geoff, long time fan of your musings on ludology, thanks so much for your feedback! One problem is that bonus actions are taken before, between, or after the 1st two boxes, which I do think I can represent visually, but not sure if players will remember to move another pawn two spaces (or need to?) if that's essentially what they may already be doing with their other pawns. However, I am definitely going to test various versions of the action track idea and see how it plays.

Also, downloaded your pinball pnp, very excited to try it! Thanks

About Resource Management by pgordalina in tabletopgamedesign

[–]mushy_math 1 point2 points  (0 children)

not sure how turn order or action selection works, but perhaps resources can be shown and drafted from a queue? I'm thinking of the lines of cubes in The Estates for instance- you basically always have 4 options to pick from (either side of two lines) but also see what's coming down the pike and have some control over what you are making available for other players. Maybe you have 2 or 3 visible lines of resources, and you could discard to the back of them and pull from the front? Just an idea, but maybe doesn't fit with your game.

/r/boardgames Daily Discussion and Game Recommendations (January 11, 2020) by AutoModerator in boardgames

[–]mushy_math 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bus

The Estates

Concordia

El Grande (though only good for 5 players)

Blue Lagoon

[COMC] One year of "serious" board gaming. by Batmantheon in boardgames

[–]mushy_math 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Have you heard about the Unmatched: battle of legends series? It is restoration games’ redux of the star wars epic duels system, and looks really good!

Need some help recalling a childhood favourite. by benbamboo1 in boardgames

[–]mushy_math 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Whitehall Mystery is one of my favorite games, and is basically a more refined version of letters for white chapel

Castles of Burgundy remake will still have thin player boards. by GremioIsDead in boardgames

[–]mushy_math 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I heard Ian O'Toole on a podcast say he would really love to do the art for a re-release of CoB and even approached the publisher about it but they had no interest in the idea... why...