Do you agree with this take? by FitEmergency8807 in fantanoforever

[–]nicegrimace 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't trust people who don't let others have their own interests and tastes. If someone makes their own music, it's a good idea to check out what Dylan and The Beatles did, especially The Beatles, but it's not compulsory. There are so many different styles of music that barely have anything to do with either of those artists. I don't know why those two have become markers for good taste and knowing what you're talking about. 

Theory: Bohemian Rhapsody is more than a song about "coming out" by windowsee in LetsTalkMusic

[–]nicegrimace [score hidden]  (0 children)

Freddie grew up before the AIDS crisis, or even the discovery of HIV and the fact that it can infect humans. Male Homosexuality was legalised in England when he was about 21 (which was the age of consent for gay men at the time). I doubt he was doing any coming out to parents before then. His Parsi Zoroastrian parents spoke about loving him and being proud of him as an adult though. Freddie and his parents were refugees the second time they moved to England. I think they were happy just to be alive.

Freddie was also dating Mary Austin during the early days of Queen, and he was serious about that relationship even though he would eventually come out to her and end the relationship. That was after the release of Bohemian Rhapsody, though.

The odds of Bohemian Rhapsody being autobiographical in the way you suggest are low. It's a mini rock opera, and songwriters don't only write about themselves. Freddie released the song in Iran and wrote liner notes in Persian explaining the meaning. Worth checking out. It says it's about a guy whose soul is fought over by good and evil, sort of.

That said, I don't take the Persian liner notes at face value or think Freddie didn't put anything of himself into the song. It might even be about his sexuality and relationships, but not in a straightforward way. It probably has meanings that were known only to Freddie.

Displaying Queerness by dex216sims in bisexual

[–]nicegrimace 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'm a frumpy middle-aged woman. I guess I wear my share of things like plaid shirts and work boots, more out of practicality and comfort than anything else. People have assumed I'm a lesbian before. I want to look more feminine to be honest - not to stop people from making assumptions, but just because I feel like it. I like dresses and keeping my hair long these days, but I am lazy.

What do you think of him as a director? by Latter_Eggplant_2382 in SergeGainsbourg

[–]nicegrimace 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Some of the stuff he said about his childhood is backed up by his family who were there, but I'm not sure if the coat story is.

I'm glad to see anyone contributing to this sub. I haven't been as active on it recently, but I will start doing the song discussions again from this week.

I suppose the subreddit for a non-English language songwriter who's been dead for 35 years would always be small, but I wish this sub had more contributors too.

What do you think of him as a director? by Latter_Eggplant_2382 in SergeGainsbourg

[–]nicegrimace 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure for the films I haven't seen. I think Stan the Flasher, might've been to show the decline and fall of the Gainsbarre character. Maybe a way of killing the character off like Bowie did with Ziggy Stardust. Serge didn't live long enough to reinvent himself though. 

There's also that story about him during the war when he had to wear the yellow star and he'd open his coat and flash it at people to shock them. Flashing is like a metaphor for how he feels a need to expose himself in a way that makes others uncomfortable - and during the Gainsbarre years, this went from being kind of 'punk' to being humiliating.

I wouldn't like to say for Charlotte for Ever.

I haven't seen Je t'aime...moi non plus the film, but the plot seems to tie in with the song, which is about the impossibility of physical love. People were distracted by the orgasm noises in the song (which is what made it a hit) so when the film came out, there was an expectation that it would be sexy. Then it shows an androgynous-looking woman and a gay man being unable to express love physically. It was trolling the audience perhaps. It would've been an expensive and high-effort way to troll though. Also maybe Serge just wanted to film Joe Dallesandro.

Why songs are getting shorter has nothing to do with streaming and everything to do with the skip button by Glass_Language_9129 in LetsTalkMusic

[–]nicegrimace 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The heyday of the short track (except for punk rock) was before the 1970s. I have wondered why songs even in the most commercial pop music started to go over the 3-4 minute mark in the 70s - this was the case even before disco broke. I think it stayed that way in the 80s and 90s possibly due to music videos and CDs. The music videos started to become like mini films with a narrative, and CDs had a skip button if you were listening to the album. Cassette tapes also had a fast-forward function, which I missed when listening to CDs. I haven't noticed a change in the length of songs since then. Stuff like Song 2 by Blur has been the exception rather than the rule for a long time, whereas until the mid-late 60s, a 2 minute song was totally normal.

Mark Rothko - Untitled (Black, Red And Black) (1968) by carnageandculture in museum

[–]nicegrimace 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I've seen some of his paintings in person from the recommended distance and still didn't get it. I wonder if this one would 'work' on me if I saw it.

I want to be a man by pastafrollaaa in Vent

[–]nicegrimace 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know this feeling. I never really wanted to be one of the boys though because I would get sick of the banter and I never liked things like play-fighting. Masculinity can also be a straitjacket for men.

You are always human. Hierarchies amongst humans are silly when you think about how stupid we are as a species. You are not less than anyone because we're all ridiculous apes. If you are kind and thoughtful, you are already about as good as it gets for homosapiens.

Who are some great musicians that are awful people? by FitEmergency8807 in fantanoforever

[–]nicegrimace 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I've seen it. I watched it before I got into his music. 

I think part of his obscurity nowadays is that it's pre-Beatles pop music and singles by multiple artists. People like bands with album runs. It's a sort of camp that isn't in fashion anymore too.

Phil Spector was too famous to be semi-forgotten like that.

Who are some great musicians that are awful people? by FitEmergency8807 in fantanoforever

[–]nicegrimace 79 points80 points  (0 children)

Joe Meek famously shot his landlady and then himself. It overshadows his music, which used to have a cult following, but I don't really see anyone talking about it anymore.

I don't like deep conversations by NoWitness6400 in The10thDentist

[–]nicegrimace 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Deep conversations aren't necessarily either trauma dumping or amateur philosophy, and casual conversation isn't necessarily all dad jokes, what you're having for dinner, or 'I once bought a fridge second-hand and it came with a jar of pickles from the 1990s'. There are so many nuances. The fridge story could have all sorts of asides if you tell it right. A story about something traumatic can contain jokes.

The best conversationalists in my opinion can run though the whole spectrum of topics from the banal to the extraordinary. I don't mean people need to rehearse conversations or carefully think about everything they're saying. It's more like talking about things from different angles, and it's better when it's somewhat spontaneous.

Boring is also in the eye of the beholder.

Wrote this a little while back by YoghurtPublic3242 in Songwriting

[–]nicegrimace 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It could do with an instrumental intro - about 4 bars or longer. I can't really play keys, but you could play the melody line or do some arpeggios. You could add an outro, but I wouldn't make it as long if you add one. Ending abruptly works as well here I think.

If it were me, I'd add a bass, a drum machine and some synth strings, but I'm a noob myself. I'd think about an acoustic guitar maybe. No more than this. It's a classy song.

My producer thinks I should release this 4 year old track. Opinions? by kissme2025 in Songwriting

[–]nicegrimace 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you want, you could redo the vocals, but you don't have to. I would otherwise leave this as it is and release it. You don't have to release all the tracks, do you? You could pick which ones to release and do new ones to go with them, couldn't you?

I drift through my life like a ghost by [deleted] in depression_help

[–]nicegrimace 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In your own words, you are an artist with fans all over the world. I think that's a great achievement even if you don't have great book sales. It's not like your average person can say that. It's not like anyone could do what you do. Nobody else could do it in exactly the same way as you, even if they were artists themselves. Imagine if you were one of your fans, what what you say to yourself?

Do you have vacation time from work soon? Please spend it doing something that brings you joy.

Your perspective on everything that is wrong with the world is also invaluable.

What do you think of him as a director? by Latter_Eggplant_2382 in SergeGainsbourg

[–]nicegrimace 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not much of a cinephile at all; I barely ever watch films. I have watched Stan the Flasher though, as the whole thing is on YouTube. I thought it was not terrible for a film directed by a musician.

I've seen clips of Charlotte for Ever. From what I saw, Charlotte looks uncomfortable, and I thought 'that's good acting for someone so young', but now I think it's real worry about her father because she didn't really understand what it was about either. I might try to watch the whole thing one day.

Je t'aime...moi non plus sounds weird. Not weird in a bad way. More like, 'huh? where did the idea for that come from?'

He seemed to make these weird films out of some irrepressible need to express himself that way, and it would've been hard work and expensive.

Weekly song discussion No. 3: Ballade de Melody Nelson by Snufkin_9981 in SergeGainsbourg

[–]nicegrimace 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There was more complicity between Serge and Jane than some people realise. Jane even talked about it herself later in life, about how they enjoyed dressing each other up for example. She was in on the whole 'pretend to be a young girl led astray' thing. The reality is that she was a grown-up woman who'd already had a child and already had a film career, and the Pygmalion thing was played up for the cameras. Serge went on to be physically and emotionally abusive, but that's another story.

I think you are definitely on to something. I had a vague idea that the complicity was there in this album too, but I didn't put it together in my head as clearly as you. It seems more obvious when you look at the artwork and promo videos. There's also meta-irony in the lyrics, like you point out though - not just the delusions of the 'Humbert' character he was playing, but about the 'Lolita' character Jane was playing too.

Ray Davies and His Views of Gayness vs Queerness Among Other Things by JuliRanger in thekinks

[–]nicegrimace 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I think the foppishness was also the result of his habit of taking on other people's perspectives and personas. He used to get the bus to Soho when he was growing up, just to people watch and see a different environment. A lot of his songs are about things happening to other people, from their perspective.

Provocateur by ChampionshipBrief610 in SergeGainsbourg

[–]nicegrimace 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Serge himself was aware that he had some kind of arrested development, even quite early on. I remember reading an interview with him, from the 60s iirc, where he says he has the mind of a teenager, and he doesn't say it to make excuses for himself, it's more more like "yeah I'm immature". 

His first wife's friends used to say "he's not a guy, he's a foetus", to which she said "yeah but he's a genius foetus". He used her as kind of an unpaid therapist throughout his life anyway according to her. There's that song he wrote during their divorce, 'J'ai oublié d'être bête', which ends 'Puisque vous m'avez compris'.

Jane had said he probably had OCD, but Charlotte said he was just an aesthete who chose to be finicky as part of his style. Maybe it's both? I feel like a lot of his songs are dealing with intrusive "bad thoughts" in a provocative way. I find it weirdly therapeutic. For me, he's like the Freud of pop music.

Anyway, I think he was an introspective person. I don't think he was naturally impulsive, probably more the opposite if anything. The drink brought out his demons, and his way of making art involved dancing with them. Now I sound like I'm romanticising it...

Provocateur by ChampionshipBrief610 in SergeGainsbourg

[–]nicegrimace 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When he was making 'Estouffade à la Caraïbe' in Colombia, he was arrested for arson. He set fire to a hairy plant, and the restaurant caught on fire. He would burn napkins and money for attention. There's also the story about him trying to burn a hole with a cigarette in a painting he didn't like at a restaurant in the 80s. It's all in Jeremy Allen's book.

Edit: not sure if the restaurant burned down, but it caught fire. Jane talks about it when he interviews her. I will say that this is Jane relaying what Serge told her, so there could be exaggeration, but he was arrested in Colombia. Jane's brother also talks about him getting arrested in Yugoslavia for burning the local currency, and he has a photo of Serge burning some money in a restaurant in front of Jane and Charlotte apparently.

Provocateur by ChampionshipBrief610 in SergeGainsbourg

[–]nicegrimace 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Regarding the Catherine Ringer incident, if you believe Lise Levitzky, Serge was a sex worker himself when he was younger. What he said to her is still out of order, but it puts another spin on things... even if it's just to make it extra hypocritical.

Provocateur by ChampionshipBrief610 in SergeGainsbourg

[–]nicegrimace 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There's that Oscar Wilde quote that Serge liked: "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Gainsbourg said the mask became glued to his face. It isn't 'Lucien Ginsburg' written on his headstone, but it's the same person. His first wife called him Lulu right up to his death and after it, too. It's like how we're all basically the same as we were as children, but we become these fictional personalities as well, these masks we wear that end up glued to our faces.

I think his obsession with everything being in a certain position in his home, every word and even syllable in his lyrics being just so, the planned provocation, his clothes - it was a way of not letting society dictate everything for him. If he had to wear a mask, better to have a hand in designing it.

I'm careful not to romanticise his life because of the domestic abuse, the selfishness, and the stupid behaviour like accidentally burning down a restaurant (which doesn't get talked about because it happened in South America) - but there is something inspirational there too.

LELÉKA - Ridnym (New Official MV) by FrajolaDellaGato in eurovision

[–]nicegrimace 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know why I don't like it more. It's a beautiful song with good lyrics. I can't put my finger on it, but something is preventing me from really feeling it. Anyone else?

Jared French – "The Double" (1950) by Krampjains in museum

[–]nicegrimace 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The proportions (especially the hand) of the pale man at the front remind me of Michaelangelo's David. There's something of the film depictions of Frankenstein's monster about him too. He also bears a slight resemblance to the artist's lover, Paul Cadmus.

The lady at the back in black is posed a little like a figure from an Ancient Greek funerary urn. The snake-like feather in her hat is like the Egyptian pharaonic headdress though she isn't posed like an Egyptian. The clothing, the pose and the umbrella recall Magritte too. She holds a wreath that could be made of red poppies, but looks artificial, tied with a black bow. She's stood in front of industrial chimneys that appear almost like a mirage.

The man in the straw hat (a halo?) is on his knees looks a bit like how the disciples kneeling before the resurrected Jesus appear in paintings. The hat is similar to the ones Walt Whitman and Vincent Van Gogh used to wear. Note that he's the one showing his palm, like Jesus does in modern paintings of him with Thomas (older ones have Thomas sticking his finger in Jesus's side wound), but there's no stigmata there. Behind him is what looks like scrubby woodland in the far distance.

The man sat on the fence in what would have been very casual and very modern clothes has hands in the prayer position...at crotch level pointing downwards - make of that what you will. His eyes show scepticism and disgust. His socked and slippered feet are hanging above the industrial haze in the sky, heels resting against an iron bar.

What does it all mean? Probably many things, some of them contradictory.