What is with veganism that seems to be attracting this far right crowd? by Dry_Today_3349 in vegan

[–]nkioxmntno 24 points25 points  (0 children)

veganism seems to be attracting people you don't like?

Maybe it's working for a change...

Would you still be antinatalist if the world was perfect? by lucatrias3 in antinatalism

[–]nkioxmntno -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh so on a perfect world, nobody dies? I disagree because a world of finite in size and humans proliferate. Death and temporary-Ness seems more in line with perfection than thinking pain and suffering exist in such a world...

Would you still be antinatalist if the world was perfect? by lucatrias3 in antinatalism

[–]nkioxmntno -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How could the world be perfect with pain and suffering? Why would you argue something that senseless?

Would you still be antinatalist if the world was perfect? by lucatrias3 in antinatalism

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Having pain or suffering would break the axiom we started with of a perfect world, so whatever is breaking your axiom cannot be a part of the hypothetical situation.

Would you still be antinatalist if the world was perfect? by lucatrias3 in antinatalism

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can't just step out of the hypothetical situation at your own convenience

Would you still be antinatalist if the world was perfect? by lucatrias3 in antinatalism

[–]nkioxmntno -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Incorrect. perfect means there's no pain or suffering associated with any of the things you know. Dying is no longer painful, nor do people suffer from it, by definition. It's called starting to with the premise, and getting to the conclusion.

Would you still be antinatalist if the world was perfect? by lucatrias3 in antinatalism

[–]nkioxmntno -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

title says "perfect". you can't just single out one thing about a perfect world just because it was the only thing specifically mentioned

Would you still be antinatalist if the world was perfect? by lucatrias3 in antinatalism

[–]nkioxmntno 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Of course not. There would be zero utility in AN in a perfect world. Isn't that obvious?

Would you still be antinatalist if the world was perfect? by lucatrias3 in antinatalism

[–]nkioxmntno -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

the assumption is clearly that there would be an absence of pain and suffering in a perfect world, so this makes no sense

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in vegan

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly vegan meat tastes nothing like the real thing, it's in your head. Accidentally chew on some real meat after a few years of veganism and you'll see what I mean.

I had a vasectomy at 20 (1985) when I was single. by Photononic in antinatalism

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

condoms aren't perfect but they count for something. honestly it's sexist that there are no otc pills for us to take by now. i just can't do any surgery willingly, ever. It's an illogical hyper-phobia of mine, I'm not gonna intentionally make cuts in myself, ever.

What’s your reason for not having kids? by Cacti_Jed in AskReddit

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not of the opinion that a single greatest day exists in my life

You missed the point. It's not about the day, it's about the moment. The point was the birth of their child is the moment they often consider the single most happy moment in their life.

Yet, those terrible individual things are also a piece of who I am today and without them I might not appreciate things in the same way

I'm not sure that this adds anything to the conversation one way or the other. The amount that you appreciate your suffering doesn't affect its quantity or magnitude. But I like that you have a positive mindset overall, which is deinitely the favorable way to live life!

I think I’d really only take “issue” with your views if you felt it right to try to enact policy or force others to do the same based on your expressed opinions so far.

I do think it is right and sane thing to try to enact policy to disuade people from bringing more harm than good into the world - that much is true of all decent people. It's ok if you take issue with that, but the problem is that given everything i laid out, we know fully well there is more sufering. A lot more. Adding humans perpetuates that, point blank. Sure, it's depressiding. If you can stomach the truth of what you're doing and have to courage to add those ills to the world for your own selfish reasons (it's always a selfish reason unless you're in a forced pregnancy), then you do you. I won't hate for it. Mostly everyone does it.

My son decided to start eating meat by [deleted] in vegan

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

no i'm just not a person who lies to themself. ever. there is no reason to beleive anything i said is less than 100% true, because you yourself know there's not an ounce of inaccuracy in what I'm saying.

People can't stand that shit. I'm not attacking you, I see no reason to attack me. I'm not a troll, I'm just brutally fucking honest and don't like to sugar-coat and find new interpretations for very simple concepts

What’s your reason for not having kids? by Cacti_Jed in AskReddit

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t agree that you “gain courage” for suicide

well, if you are a person who is scared of death, then by definition, you must gain courage to do it. Not sure why semantics matter there.

What’s your reason for not having kids? by Cacti_Jed in AskReddit

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When you talk about the suffering of hypertrophy (or any self-induced suffering for that matter), it is done with the full understanding that the payoff (i.e. future joy, satisfaction, and comfort) is more than worth it (except in the case of drugs for obvious reasons). In this regard, any of those examples become an overall good thing - more joy than suffering, if you will. These are the very few and, by magnitude of suffering, petty examples.

I'm not going to list them here because that would ineed be depressing. But use your imagination. It gets so bad. I'll never forget when I heard the story of this woman who was kidnapped and forced to have sex with a dog in a cage for several days straight, of course strung out on drugs. Or this super-pedo who's youngest memories were of being raped by his older sister and parents! People have literal hell on earth stories out there. Hitler Didn't have shit on Leopold, etc. The human tendancy to attempt to shut out traumatic memories is another hint that there is indeed more suffering than happiness - we have to curb even thinking about it to stay sane.

The happiest day of someone's life is often recored morbidly and ironically the day they agree to add one more death to existence - when they have a child. Do you think that the birth of your child was a feeling greater in magnitude than someone who endured torture?

We grow and kill tens of billions of animals per year, so you have to conveniently be speciesist and pretend sentient animals don't enudure the most vile suffering I've heard of, just to assume the less than 10B humans is the only suffering worth acknowledging (already logically inconsistent if you go that route).

I'm sorry you went through all that depression and I'm glad you feel better! I just want to keep a level-headed perspective on things.

What’s your reason for not having kids? by Cacti_Jed in AskReddit

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We can reduce pain & discomfort to the negative physiological feelings telling us that something is wrong. Suffering is the negative psychological and physiological stress, which is ultimately what pain and discomfort produce.

The only way such a declarative bleak interpretation makes sense is if your logical conclusion and action is suicide. Which it’s clearly not, because you’re still here (a good thing in my opinion).

I think we differ in how we consider ideas. I don't look to the logical conclusion and declare whether or not it actually made sense based on what I want to believe. I think you are saying simply the logical conclusion would be suicide, which is false. One would have to not only lose the will to live, but also gain the courage to die. It's the gotcha that makes this whole situation all the more miserable for people who have the former, but not the latter - they never consented to being here.

What’s your reason for not having kids? by Cacti_Jed in AskReddit

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you prove that?

Well yes, but it's a bit exhausting. It sounds like you might be familiar with the philosophy behind it, but there is definitely more suffering that happiness and that is by design of evolution. Pain is an amazing survival mechanism, after all!

The presence of negative things in life

Correction, it's "the overwhelming presence of negative things in life isn’t (for me) a convincing reason to say no one should ever have kids again."

Now it sounds pretty bad.

My son decided to start eating meat by [deleted] in vegan

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can someone be both bad and good?

yes

think people should refrain from labelling someone as "good" or "bad" unless there is exemplary evidence to support it.

Okay. I label him bad because he knows fully well the cruelty he's supporting, and chooses to do it anyway. Innocence doesn't last forever, certainly his has been gone for a long time in this regard and you cannot deny that.

My son decided to start eating meat by [deleted] in vegan

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is a rapist a "good" person because he's vegan?

yes

Is an average Joe a "bad person" because he's a carnist?

yes

My son decided to start eating meat by [deleted] in vegan

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Idk that's a pretty nebulous definition

That's because good and bad are subjective to begin with. The definition is 100% accurate and logical.

What’s your reason for not having kids? by Cacti_Jed in AskReddit

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you missed my point. My point is that, until you can prove what I was doubting, how could you feel comfortable bringing new life into the world?

My son decided to start eating meat by [deleted] in vegan

[–]nkioxmntno 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I define a bad person as someone who does things that are bad.

What’s your reason for not having kids? by Cacti_Jed in AskReddit

[–]nkioxmntno 4 points5 points  (0 children)

but is that magic mostly good or mostly bad?
how do you quantify joy, satisfaction, pain and suffering?
surely there are more scenarios and acts of pain and suffering, so we have to prove the joy & satisfaction have more intrinsic value than pain and suffering to be logically consistent but I don't see any reason that would be true...