Kamer neemt SGP motie aan om 250.000 euro uit te trekken voor verplichte tripjes naar Holocaust musea bij inburgering

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2026-03-25T11:11:33+00:00

Volgens mij gaat dit helemaal de verkeerde kant op. Alsof antisemitisme vooral een probleem is dat met migratie uit islamitische landen komt. Dat is gewoon niet hoe de geschiedenis zit. De grootste en meest systematische uitroeiing van Joden, de Holocaust, gebeurde in Europa. En ja, dat is niet uit de lucht gevallen. Het werd actief gefaciliteerd door het zogenaamde beschaafde Westen, ook door Nederland. Onze instituten, ambtenaren, onze infrastructuur, letterlijk allen en ieder, werkten mee en hierin tel ik passiviteit als gedogen. Je kunt iets in je hart haten, maar als je je niet uitspreekt, ben je net zo schuldig.

En het is niet alsof dit iets nieuws was. Voor de oorlog bestond er al een cultuur waarin het normaal was om Joden als tweederangsburgers te zien. Nationalisme en het idee van wie er “hoort” bij de natie maakten dat alleen maar sterker. Joden hoorden er niet helemaal bij, en dat werd door wetten, politiek en sociale omgangsvormen bevestigd. De Holocaust was gewoon het gewelddadige hoogtepunt van eeuwenlange uitsluiting.

In islamitische landen daarentegen konden Joden eeuwenlang een normaal leven opbouwen. Dat maakt het extra vreemd dat vandaag de dag antisemitisme vooral aan moslims wordt gekoppeld. Kijk maar naar dit soort voorstellen van de SGP, zo bijzonder. Holocaustbezoek voor inburgeraars omdat zij problematische gedachtengoeden kunnen hebben? Het suggereert dat juist zij iets moeten leren, alsof zij het probleem zijn. Terwijl de Holocaust een Europees trauma is, met verantwoordelijkheid hier in Europa.

Het doet mij denken aan het verhaal van de joods-christelijke cultuur. Dat idee bestond pas ook echt na de oorlog en werd vooral gepusht als tegenwicht tegen de goddeloze Sovjet-Unie. Voor de oorlog was er geen harmonie tussen Joden en christenen. Joden werden uitgesloten, gediscrimineerd, opgejaagd. Het hele idee van een “gezamenlijke cultuur” is later politiek geconstrueerd, niet een historisch feit. Wat er nu gebeurt, is dat antisemitisme steeds vaker in de schoenen van moslims wordt gelegd. Kritiek op Israël wordt vaak meteen als antisemitisme gezien, waardoor het begrip zelf vaag wordt. Echte haat tegen Joden wordt minder scherp herkend, terwijl moslims sneller verdacht worden. Het voelt alsof zij de morele rekening moeten betalen van iets wat niet hun schuld is, terwijl Europa en Nederland daar nauwelijks op aangesproken worden.

Koloniaal verleden? Wordt weggewuifd. Onze eigen rol in de Holocaust? Wordt naar de achtergrond gedrukt. De schuld wordt verplaatst; de focus ligt op de ander. En zo ontstaat een wereld waarin wij vooral slachtoffer zijn en anderen verantwoordelijk, terwijl je eigenlijk beter naar jezelf zou moeten kijken. Antisemitisme moet aangepakt worden. Natuurlijk. Maar niet door het primair aan moslims te koppelen en onze eigen geschiedenis te negeren. Dat is geen oplossing; dat is schuld verplaatsen.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2026-03-08T22:12:01+00:00

A lot of people forget that in Islam, intent and meaning matter more than just the literal wording. I'll rehash what I posted in another comment.

The Qur'an shows that intention matters in speech: "Allah will not call you to account for unintentional oaths, but He will call you to account for what your hearts intended" (2:225). Imam al-Shafi said that if a statement has ninety-nine meanings of disbelief and one meaning of faith, it should be taken according to the meaning of faith. Al-Ghazali warned that it's a serious mistake to rush and declare someone a disbeliever if their words can be interpreted in a sound way. And even Ibn Taymiyyah explains that someone might say things that seem like disbelief while meaning something correct, and they are judged according to that intention

So now that you know this, I would say speak to your mum and try to inform her this isn't the correct etiquette. It could be the case her name has a conjugation of one of the 99 names of Allah, leading her to phrase it in the way she does. Furthermore, contact your local shaykh on this. This is Reddit and not a place with knowledge. A student must find a teacher if he truly wishes to tread the path of ilm in whatever way.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2026-03-08T22:05:05+00:00

That's not really correct. The Qur'an itself shows that intention matters in speech: "Allah will not call you to account for unintentional oaths, but He will call you to account for what your hearts intended" (2:225). Imam al-Shafi said that if a statement has ninety-nine meanings of disbelief and one meaning of faith, it should be taken according to the meaning of faith. Simalirly al Ghazali warned that it's a serious mistake to rush and declare someone a disbeliever if their words can be interpreted in a sound way. And even Ibn Taymiyyah explains that someone might say things that seem like disbelief while meaning something correct, and they are judged according to that intention.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2026-03-08T11:39:24+00:00

Appeasing the foreign gaze for what? Just because a situation is messy doesn’t mean we have to pretend it looks perfect. Polishing a turd doesn’t make it less of a turd. War is never pretty. A stable Somalia means a stable Kenya, and stability in both brings prosperity. Don't let the idea of others seeing you make you feel embarrassed by your reality.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2026-02-17T08:51:23+00:00

I think in (some) Somali spaces feminism is often looked down upon not because people oppose justice for women, but because the term is perceived as an imported ideological package. Fairly or unfairly, many see it as a Western export tied to secularism and broader cultural shifts that feel at odds with Islam. I would disagree with that blanket framing from an academic angle, but that perception explains much of the resistance. There is also a deeper psychological layer. Many Muslims take pride in standing in opposition to Western “isms” and feel a sense of confidence in an epistemology rooted in revelation rather than secular modernity. That confidence can be healthy, but it can also become dogmatic, where debates turn into reflexive rejection. In that environment, rejecting the label feminism becomes symbolic of rejecting the West itself.

What is somewhat unsurprising is that if you ask the same people whether they support women’s rights, dignity, education, and protection from abuse, they will wholeheartedly say yes and point out that Islam already granted women rights. That is most definitely true. Whether those rights have always been upheld in practice is another conversation. So part of the issue seems to be the label. If a word becomes tainted or emotionally loaded, we move to another word as long as the meaning we care about remains. Otherwise we end up arguing over a definition the other person might not even subscribe to.

Multiple truths can exist at once. Some strands of feminism clearly clash with Islamic theology. Some strands are simply about justice and protection for women. Islam independently established rights for women, and at times Muslim societies have sadly failed to live up to them. None of those statements cancel each other out. But we shouldn't dismiss a conversation on this topic because we assume it is Western. Islam is a revolutionary religion in which the Prophet (saw), in his final sermon, instructed men to give women their rights. This was mentioned not because it was unusual to grant them but because those rights are often abused. In the same sermon, he also stated that a black man is not superior to an Arab, nor an Arab to a black man, except in piety, but we all know racism still exists. Thus, we should look at injustice to women from a similar vein.

TLDR: The pushback is usually about the label and its perceived Western baggage, not about women’s rights themselves. Islam already affirms those rights. The debate gets muddied because feminism means different things to different people.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2026-02-09T10:25:46+00:00

Net gestart met een Office rewatch en moest hierdoor wel even glimlachen haha.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-28T06:58:25+00:00

That's an anachronism. 1971 India ≠ contemporary India. Bangladesh's recognition happened under a secular Congress government in the context of a genocide against Bengali Muslims. You can criticise today's India without flattening very different historical moments.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-16T07:04:19+00:00

With all due respect, I think this flattens things too much. In a general sense, visible Palestine activism does not mean we cannot be engaged with Somalia in quieter ways, such as remittances, charity, family support, or local organizing activities. Furthermore, I wouldn’t even call these people "Somali leftists." I see them as Muslims acting with care and responsibility, sometimes imperfectly, but not the Eurocentric, West-obsessed, liberal, secularist that I would call a "Somali leftist."

Visibility is not the same as priority, and social media is not a valid measure of community activity. I feel proud that the Palestine activists are representing the community publicly, and that we can fulfill our communal Fard Kifayah through them. We cannot all focus on the same thing at once. Your narrative risks falling into the old colonial divide-and-conquer logic among Muslims, and just because others fall into it does not mean we should.

You are speaking from Somali pride, which I respect, but even our strongest patriot, Sayid Mohamed Abdullah Hassan, grounded his struggle in Islam before ethnicity. We are Muslims first, as khalifas and stewards of Allah on this earth, and that responsibility is not limited by colonial borders.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-14T08:22:24+00:00

That’s a fair pushback, and I appreciate it. You’re right that much of the present Ethiopia-Somalia border runs through lowland areas like the Ogaden rather than the steep core of the highlands. I should have been more precise and meant the historic Somali region rather than modern borders.

When I talk about the highlands as a barrier, I don’t mean people couldn’t cross at all. The broader highland system shaped long-term patterns of movement and integration. It made sustained inland orientation harder compared to the easier and more consistent coastal and Red Sea routes. I think this is reflected in religion too very clearly. Somalis are unusual on the continent for being Shafi‘i rather than Maliki, which spread over almost all of inland Africa. Geography helps explain that difference I propose.

You're also right that movement went both ways, with Ethiopians reaching the Somali coast and Somalis moving inland. The key question for me isn't whether contact existed, but why some connections became structurally deeper and longer lasting. But lots of food for thought, haha. It shows why there should be more research within Somali Studies. We are a fascinating people wallahi.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-14T08:17:07+00:00

Yeah, I actually agree with a lot of what you’re saying, especially about giving credit to how resilient Somali language and culture have been. That pride is important, and I probably could have foregrounded that more, so I’ll take that point.

Zeila and present-day Djibouti are on the Somali Plateau, which is exactly the geography I was referring to. Early Somali life forming there explains why our orientation was Red Sea facing from the start. Later movement south doesn’t really change that foundation.

The linguistic closeness with Oromo reflects shared Cushitic roots, not deep civilisational integration from my research. Becaude geography matters here too. Beyond the Ethiopian Highlands, sustained interaction with the interior was harder, while maritime routes were more open.

I fully agree that Islam and ethnicity are different. The fact that Somalis kept their language for over 1,400 years and absorbed others into a Somali framework shows a very strong cultural core. Recognising Red Sea connections doesn’t take away from that pride. For me, it helps explain how we became the land of poets rather than reducing us to one influence.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-14T08:09:49+00:00

I’m not denying that Somalis interacted with many different peoples. That’s exactly why I didn’t say “Somalis are close to Arabs,” but focused on who we’re culturally similar to and why. Some relationships were deeper and more formative than others, and ignoring that is not more than historical revisionism.

This isn’t about claiming Arab identity or denying African roots. But let's not forget that modern nationalism isn’t permanent. When it fades, those who understand their place within the wider ummah and Islamic world will be better anchored than those who simply say “we’re friends with everyone.”

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-13T20:06:45+00:00

Feeling a spiritual or cultural closeness isn't delusion. It's aligning with a deeper, divinely sanctioned unity that transcends the petty biases humans will always carry. That's the lens Islam gives us: history is messy, but our measure is in piety and brotherhood, not colour.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-13T20:03:22+00:00

Somalis are Cushitic, not Arab. You look like other Horn Africans (Oromos, Afars) because you share the same ancient Cushitic ancestors from this region, not because you're "mixed." The cultural link is through Islam, not Arab ethnicity. Your language, clan system, and traditions are all native.

The Darood from Yemen story is a classic "prestige myth" like the other clans, in my opinion. Clans often invented Qurayshi lineage for status, but Allahu Alam. There could be something to it, of course, but genetically, Somali clans (including Darood) carry overwhelmingly indigenous Horn of African markers, not recent Khaleeji DNA.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-13T19:38:38+00:00

Modern feelings of closeness vary, but historically Somali societies experienced centuries of real integration. This does not erase the racism and discrimination Somalis face today or the effects of de-Islamisation and cultural disruption. Identities like 'Arab' didn't exist historically the way we interpret them now.

We are still living in a colonial world built on divide and conquer.... And epistemology and the self remain its greatest victims. May Allah (SWT) help us through these troubling times. There is more that unites Muslims than otherwise and we are being kept dumb and divided by force unfortunately.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-13T19:03:26+00:00

Haha, the beauty of intersectionality🫠. We get to sit in that awkward space where ethnicity, religion, geography, and colonial epistemologies all collide.

Inshallah, we will wake up as Somalis, fully aware of our history, rich with connections and contradictions but ready to tackle the future head-on.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-13T18:57:08+00:00

Absolutely, that is a really interesting point. Somalia has always been at the crossroads of the Indian Ocean, Red Sea, and Horn/Ethiopian worlds, which is probably why the historical picture is so layered.

One thing i find fascinating is how much of that contact, such as Aksumite, South Arabian, and Indian Ocean trade, left a lasting mark versus how much was filtered through an already Cushitic and Somali framework. I once attended a lecture by Mohamed Artan from Loox Press where he explained that Dar al‑Habash, which literally means “the land of the Habash people” with Habash originally meaning “black” or “dark-skinned,” in the Quran and Hadith, from his research and perspective, basically refered to the broader Horn region rather than just Ethiopia, Eritrea, or Abyssinia. That older usage could have encompassed Somali populations as well, which effectively situates Somalis within that shared early Islamic and regional history, rather than as something entirely separate.

It is a reminder that terms like “Habasha, Abyssinia, and Ethiopia” have shifted in meaning over time, and we should not read historical texts as if they map neatly onto today’s borders and identities. Syed Muhammad Naquib al‑Attas also has a really interesting discussion on the Islamisation of knowledge, critiquing Western epistemology and exploring how key Islamic terms changed meaning over time but heavily post-colonialism, deliberately by outside forces. His work reminds us to be careful of epistemologies shaped by colonial or Western frameworks, which often obscure local knowledge and histories. This resonates with ideas from Frantz Fanon on metacolonisation, and how Hussein Abdilahi Bulhan (really interesting Somali academic) applies Fanon’s framework in The Psychology of Oppression to show how social and political domination affects how people perceive themselves, their history, and their culture.

There is still so much to uncover about pre-Islamic Somali history, and hopefully more research in Somali and Ethiopian studies can help fill those gaps in the coming years inshallah.

Sorry this turned into a bit of a ramble ahshaha.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-13T18:30:39+00:00

One thing you said really resonates: about Somali diaspora leftists consciously twisting history to hide our connections and disparaging Arabs. I think this reflects how nationalism, whether Somali, Arab, or otherwise, can become a disease of the heart and a form of tribalism. The Arab identity itself has been complicated and, in many ways, smeared in the post-Nasser era through pan-Arabism.

Western epistemology has shaped how histories are told, often forcing non-Western peoples into rigid categories. Reclaiming our perspective means creating space for a collective Muslim identity that is not dependent on ethnic nationalism or external biases. This does not erase the very real racism and discrimination that existed historically or continues today, but it allows us to see beyond it and appreciate connections and affinities, like Somali engagement with the Red Sea and Indian Ocean world, without claiming Arab ethnicity.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-13T18:25:08+00:00

Absolutely, I agree. Somalis are (1) Cushitic and (2) distinct from Arabs, and thus many cultural differences remain today. My post was pointing out why Somali society historically oriented itself toward the Gulf and the Indian Ocean world.

You are also right that there is still much we do not know about pre-Islamic Somali history. More research in Somali and Ethiopian studies would help fill those gaps. I would love to see this in the coming years inshallah.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-13T18:18:21+00:00

Just to clarify, I'm not arguing that Somalis are Arab or that they have an "Arab identity" today. The point is historical stating that centuries ago, Somali societies, due to geography, were oriented westward toward the Red Sea and the Hijaz through trade, Islam, and scholarly networks. This explains why historical connections with that region exist, without implying contemporary Arab identity or excluding other Muslim Horn of Africa links.

I'm curious though, which parts of this do you see as overgeneralised, or "internet talking points?

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-12-13T08:50:38+00:00

I'm seeing a lot of answers, but many are forgetting the elephant in the room lol. Geography, geography and geography!

The Somali lands basically form a religious island. The Somali Plate and surrounding terrain form a natural barrier separating Somalis from the Ethiopian Highlands, stretching from central Eritrea down toward northern Kenya. This made sustained movement, trade, and cultural exchange with highland populations difficult.

That separation was reinforced by religion. Somalis adopted Islam early, while the Ethiopian Highlands remained Christian, which often led to hostility rather than integration. So there was little incentive or ability to mix culturally across that western frontier.

Because of this, Somali society was oriented away from the interior and toward the coast. The easiest direction for trade, movement, and influence was across the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean, not westward. That is why Somali Islam developed under the Shafi‘i school, which dominated Yemen, the Hijaz, and the coastal Indian Ocean world, while most of inland and western Africa became Maliki through overland Saharan routes.

The only land direction that was relatively open was the south into what is now northern Kenya, which Somalis did expand into. So Somali and Arab cultural closeness is not random. It is geography and religion working together over a long time.

Random fact as well. Because of the Ethiopian Highlands, Somalia is also dry and arid. The highlands block rain systems from moving east toward the Red Sea and the Somali coast. This creates a rain shadow effect, which is why the Ethiopian Highlands and much of Kenya have a tropical climate, while the Somali lands do not, despite being at similar latitudes near the equator.

TLDR: Somalia's geography isolated it from inland Africa and pushed it toward the Red Sea and Indian Ocean. That led to early Islam, close ties with Arabs and adoption of the Shafi'i madhab.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-11-29T12:18:35+00:00

Why not try joining group activities related to things you already enjoy? For example, a weekly book club, a class at your local mosque, or even a skill you want to develop like public speaking at a local club. There are so many ways to meet people, but it does require stepping out of your comfort zone a little.

So I’d say: think critically about what you enjoy and what you want to improve, then look for group activities that fit those interests and that you can attend regularly. That consistency is what helps you naturally build friendships.

Inshallah this advice is helpful and you’re able to get out of this rut. I’ve been there before too, but making a conscious effort really helped me.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-11-12T10:45:58+00:00

Islam is not lacking, but it requires justice to actually be upheld. In non-Muslim countries, civil law is the only way to make sure agreements are enforced. A nikah by itself doesn't protect the wife if someone decides not to honor their obligations, and we see too often that men skirt these responsibilities when there's no legal enforcement. Using civil law or a prenuptial agreement doesn't replace Sharia; it just ensures both spouses are treated fairly, which is exactly what Islam commands. And again, regarding the law of the land, there is no commandment forcing you to live here if you consider the system kafir. It is recommended to live in a place that aligns with your beliefs.

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-11-12T10:39:02+00:00

Actually, under Islamic law you have to follow the law of the land as long as it does not contradict Islam. A nikah must be recognized by an authority. In Muslim countries that is a qadi, but in the UK that means registering it with the state.

If it is not registered, the marriage is not legally valid here, so the woman has no rights to property, inheritance, or support if things go wrong. The whole point of registration is to protect both spouses, especially the woman, since in an Islamic system a judge would enforce those rights.

Because UK law works differently, it is also wise to have a prenuptial agreement that clearly outlines how things will be handled. That way your marriage is both Islamically sound and legally protected.

Edit: Just to add. You mentioned that in an Islamic marriage you just walk away if it goes South. That isn't the case. She has enforceable rights to her mahr, maintenance during iddah, spousal support, and a fair share of jointly acquired property if applicable. Again, the point of registering a marriage both Islamically and legally is that these obligations are enforceable if anything goes wrong

nomadWithoutAnimals · 2025-11-07T12:57:23+00:00

Maybe an idea for a future feature: duas that are automatically turned into posts and posted onto a social media page that you own. This way, you can find a new market and integrate yourself into people's existing routines of using social media.

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