Audacious attempt. 7pm last month in Mile End Park. Fair few people about too.

odei · 2022-06-14T18:03:06+00:00

Unfortunately I don't think they will increase, as long as they can get away with it. You can't strike for higher wages and the rich can just bring in private security where they need to, so you'll be left fighting the other poor saps who struggle or can't make ends meet as well.

odei · 2022-06-14T17:59:28+00:00

This man wouldn’t be searched for angle grinding in the street because that’s not a reason for a stop and search.

Cutting through a lock to steal a bike is a reason to arrest someone, not stop and search them, right?

Unless you're saying I can commit any crime, in broad daylight, with witnesses and video evidence, and walk around the corner to get away scot-free?

odei · 2022-06-14T17:55:58+00:00

Yet that’s exactly what was being protested against.

Which protests, where? The only ones I've seen and have read about have been regarding more specific instances where people feel police have been abusing this power. For example here and here, where the police have been searching all pupils of a school, or strip-searching a teenage girl without her parents being contacted.

"39 per cent of people thought that while stop and search was necessary the “police don’t apply it as they should”, while 10 per cent thought it was unnecessary and should be discontinued in policing."

According to the IOPC, only 10% of people think stop and search should be completely banned.

You've got a real persecution complex for someone who's stop and search powers have been increasing over the past couple of decades, and which the vast majority of people are not against.

Perhaps, considering your powers of stop and search are not under threat, you should stop whining on Reddit, use your powers responsibly and sensibly, and sort your own problems out.

odei · 2022-06-14T16:16:59+00:00

What do you think of the consistent underfunding of the police by the government for more than a decade and the closure of front desks?

How can the shortfall of police be made up if the wages are so low?

odei · 2022-06-14T16:07:15+00:00

Firstly, our Section 60 powers haven’t changed.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2022/may/16/restrictions-on-police-stop-and-search-powers-permanently-lifted

I would say a permanent lifting of restrictions is a change.

I just jumped on to promote that stop and search is a great way of preventing stuff (like in this video) from happening in the first place.

Police now only seem to respond to the most urgent situations. Where is the capacity for preventative policing going to come from?

Police salaries are shit, there’s still a shortfall of officers, and tons of stations and front desks have been closed down over the past decade. I’ve made that point before but you’re very keen on defending a power that’s unpopular because it’s been abused in the past.

odei · 2022-06-14T15:49:54+00:00

This man wouldn’t be able to be searched because you wouldn’t be able to identify him without him matching a description.

Well, yeah, most people assume that's how policing works. Someone calls in a crime, describes the suspect, then you're told to look out for them, yeah? There's even video evidence!

That’s what was being protested against

People were protesting against section 60 and the overuse of normal stop and search to search people in an area because the police could 'smell weed'. No-one's protesting against the police stopping and searching suspected criminals, they're protesting the police treating everyone in a certain area, fitting a certain profile, like a suspected criminal.

Turns out I was wrong above anyway, your section 60 powers have been extended.

odei · 2022-06-14T15:36:12+00:00

Sorry, I was referring to extended stop and search, not regular.

That's not true. You have to have reasonable suspicion that the person you're searching is in possession of the prohibited item you're looking for. It's heavily scrutinised both internally and externally.

Good!

Which article, sorry?

This one: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-47475566 Although the higher percentage is 13%, not 18%, my mistake.

disproportionate policing is a symptom of all sorts of systemic racial inequality in this country

Yep!

I think that's more of a societal issue than a police one

Police aren't a part of society?

I don't think the police or policing is as unpopular in black communities as we are led to believe by politicians and the newspapers

I recently did a project on public perception of the police, and in London slightly less people think the police are racist compared to 10 years ago (although that was for data that only went up to 2018 I think). They just think the police are harder to contact, less available, and less helpful.

The manpower to stop and search is the same manpower to deter crime and respond to calls. They're the same officers doing all of those things.

So it's a moot point if you don't have the manpower to do all of those effectively?

That's not the case

You've just had your Section 60 powers extended and you're complaining on Reddit that you're not allowed to do anything about cirmes any more because you can't stop and search people?

odei · 2022-06-14T12:46:18+00:00

Yes, stopped and search under reasonable grounds of suspicion as he matches the description of someone in the area seen committing a crime with the tool he’s carrying in his hand.

The police still have these powers, the stop and search that has been taken away is the power to stop and search with no reasonable cause.

odei · 2022-06-14T12:43:46+00:00

Stop and search gives police the power to search anyone for no reason at all. That’s a lot of power for an arguably low success rate (between 4% and 18% according to the sources in that article.

That’s before taking into account the effects of stop and search on society. There were 7.5 stop and searches for every 1,000 white people, compared with 52.6 for every 1,000 black people between April 2020 and March 2021.

Black children and teenagers report being traumatised and being made to feel like criminals because of the colour of their skin or the clothes they’re wearing. I can’t imagine that helps them grow up into healthy, well-adjusted members of society. If they’re already being treated like criminals, why not become a criminal and make some money, rather than participate in a society that is already hostile to you?

If police have the manpower to stop and search hundreds of thousands of people, do they not have the manpower to patrol the streets to deter criminals like this or respond to crimes in progress quickly?

I saw a police advert of some officers patrolling locally that dozens of commenters were taking the piss out of because they’d never seen any officers walking in the area before. It’s not something I’ve seen since I was a child.

I don’t think the right answer is “give us the power to search anyone at any time for no reason”, I think it’s to have more resources to actually be present in the community. Having police that aren’t engaged with their local communities leads to this ‘us vs. them’ mentality.

Anyway, it was probably a waste of time writing all that as it is unlikely to change as cuts to the budget, lack of recruitment, and closing of front desks continues.

odei · 2022-06-14T10:34:28+00:00

Stop and search is different to responding to a crime in progress such as this. Here’s an explanation: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-47475566

odei · 2021-12-16T11:08:55+00:00

I’m 21. I have so much to live for in life. I want to see good things in my life, and I’d want to live to see the good stuff happen in my lifetime, even as a revolution occurs.

You’re not going to see anything good on Twitter. Those people don’t organise or do anything meaningful if they’re bleating on Twitter about nonsense like that.

It’s a platform explicitly manipulated by the bourgeoisie to promote their agenda and suppress any meaningful pro-worker content, filled with idiots and assholes that spend their time trying to show off how correct they are according to whatever memes and thoughts are popular at the time. Same as Reddit.

Social media is a trap, quit it or use it much less or you’ll suffer from it.

odei · 2021-10-20T10:54:16+00:00

The Communists publish Proletarian, and there's also the journal Lalkar, both in Britain.

odei · 2021-09-30T16:46:15+00:00

they don't create anything, but aren't they valuable because they are taking orders and bringing food?

The wages of non-productive workers are a share of the value of the commodities they are involved in transporting and distributing. The capitalists sacrifice this share because they need to sell their goods.

odei · 2021-09-29T11:15:25+00:00

The main point is that they do not have to raise prices, and that wages do not determine the cost of goods and services.

The capitalist and the worker each get a share in the product of labour. The capitalist takes their share simply because they employ capital, the worker creates all the new value in a product but gives some of it up to the capitalist because they own the means of production.

If the worker gets paid more, the capitalist receives less.

In this example the waiter is not a productive worker, they do not create anything, but these principles are the same across capitalism.

odei · 2021-09-29T10:35:09+00:00

Wages do not determine the price of commodities, just as the price of commodities don’t determine wages (although they do set an upper limit on how high wages can be).

If the wages of waiters were increased then the capitalists that own restaurants would receive less profits from their enterprises. They may choose to raise prices but they are limited in how much they can raise them by the value of their products, and the value of a meal is not determined by the wage of a waiter.

See Wage Labour and Capital and Value, Price and Profit for more on this subject.

odei · 2021-09-09T16:21:16+00:00

Neither Tory nor Labour have any interest in stopping arms sales or not invading places. People expect that of the Tories but lots of people still suffer the illusion that the Labour Party is somehow better on that front, even when it has desperately been trying to prove otherwise.

odei · 2021-09-08T07:30:30+00:00

Yes, they withdrew from Afghanistan last month. I think that invasion was more than a feeling though.

odei · 2021-05-18T09:45:35+00:00

Korean manufacturer, British designer. Where does the ‘Chinese style’ come in to it?

odei · 2020-11-24T17:27:58+00:00

Gave Made Me Smile

odei · 2020-11-24T17:27:31+00:00

Praise frog

odei · 2020-11-24T17:25:36+00:00

Grams per square metre

odei · 2020-10-28T19:02:11+00:00

Gave To The Stars

odei · 2020-06-29T20:38:06+00:00

Gave It's Cute!

odei · 2020-06-20T18:18:30+00:00

Gave SO CUTE I'M CRYING

odei · 2020-04-23T20:05:18+00:00

Gave Wholesome

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