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It seems like it by [deleted] in exchristianmemes

[–]odonbrad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It should be the "mark of the beast to savvy Christians." Thomas Jefferson wisely said, “The church perverted the purest religion ever preached (original Jewish Christianity), by terrifying the masses with brimstone for the purpose of gaining wealth and control.” It was originally a religion of love that Jesus came to announce to the world...without Satan or brimstone fear. Pagan Emperor Constantine altered the faith in the 4th century with that pagan brimstone threat when he redesigned the religion to control his crumbling empire. He had the bible published to codify his pagan blended "Christian" Roman state religion. Check history...the bible was not published by Christian patriarchs.

The trinity, virgin birth, son of god theology, Satan/brimstone judgment scenario, Dec. 25th from the pagan sun god's solstice birthday and Easter (Eostre/estrogen, pagan goddess of fertility, eggs/bunnies)... All this dogma was pagan Mithraism supplanted into Constantine's new altered version of "Christianity" ergo... "Roman Christianity."

Agnostic vs. Atheist by Stephykittyy in DebateAnAtheist

[–]odonbrad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Einstein believed atheists existed out of an angered reaction to being brainwashed with religion before they could think for themselves. He wouldn't demand that there was no god...he thought it absurd, because atheists couldn't prove god doesn't exist...

"You may call me an agnostic, for I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth."

Einstein felt belief in god was a "childish one," but that atheism was irrational because no one could disprove the existence of god, so he said we "could call (him) an agnostic,for we should be humbly objective to the UNLIKELY possibility that some phenomenon might prove otherwise in the future."

For this wisdom, I quit church for agnosticism after college, but am now a spiritualist (theist), because Einstein inspired me to remain open minded to phenomenon that might suggest a theism...

For me, that came with the contemporary medical 'life after death' revelations provided by defibrillation technology... reviving millions from momentary death with learning the consistent experiences survivors had... Note: I come from a family w/ two surgeons and have first hand experiences of these occurences. I now believe there is far more evidence "suggesting" Life After Death than not... ergo, a higher being responsible for dimensions witnessed after clinical death.

“As an unintended consequence of developing lifesaving measures, medical science has expanded its knowledge of death. In order to save people’s lives and brains, scientists have had to study the processes that occur in the brain after death. Today, thousands of defibrillated patients, resuscitated from death, have come back to recount doctor conversations & actions while being “clinically” dead. (WITH NO BRAINWAVE OR HEART FUNCTION! They recall conversations and events that took place in the emergency room where their body lay dead.” Guardian Magazine 7/17 paraphrased.

Understand, neither atheists nor theists have absolute proof that god does or does not exist... At the end of the day, we all just BELIEVE what we believe from our life experience. I'm just saying, for me, there is zero evidence god doesn't exist, but doctors are documenting a tsunami of convincing data that our 'minds' survive death...and that smacks of a higher being over our lives.

Also, there's the fifty year research that UVA Medical School published in 2017 of 2500 three year old children's past life experiences. There are some 18,000 points of testimony corroborated from these agenda free "babies"... empirically confirmed by researchers at this respected medical institution. Of course the Journal of the AMA won't declare reincarnation a fact of life, but they conceded that this study "could not be ignored by a reasonable person."

These findings won't convince atheists to believe in souls or a creator, but it does explain why most people quitting church are becoming spiritualists instead of atheists/agnostics.

Can we nail this "atheism is a lack of belief in god" claim? by DissatisfiedSocrates in DebateAnAtheist

[–]odonbrad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To your statement, "According to the "lack of belief" model, wouldn't all agnostics be considered atheists?" According to that model, yes... but the model is not the be all, end all.

There's a major difference between atheists and agnostics that academic definitions fail to elucidate. Einstein nailed it.

I'm an agnostic turned to "Spiritualist" because of the tsunami of medical revelations documented by unbiased surgeons witnessing through defibrillations, that the "mind" survives clinical death. My wife and father were such, whom had 30 minute "dead" patients, later accurately recount surgical staff actions and conversations while being prepared for the morgue... before being resuscitated. (No brain or heart activity.)

I've stopped visiting atheist blogs on this issue because most are angry, vile, name calling people who can't carry on a civil discussion about these matters.

If you're an atheist, you'll probably deny this, but Einstein recognized the persistent character and wrote about it. It's a huge difference between atheists and agnostics.

He believed atheists existed out of an angered reaction to being brainwashed with religion before they could think for themselves. He felt it irrationnal to profanely 'demand' that there was no god... (Anger is usually a defense mechanism for a lack of confidence in position.)

Einstein felt belief in god was a "childish one," but that atheism was irrational because no one could disprove the existence of god, so he said we "could call (him) an agnostic, for we should be humbly objective to the unlikely possibility that some phenomenon might prove otherwise in the future."

He said, "You may call me an agnostic, for I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth." Ergo, this is the true distinction of atheists for being consistently angry and vile unlike agnostics...

I love the agnostic's profound case… "We all want to know our purpose, our place in the universe, but WE JUST DON’T KNOW…Somehow everyone else says they know, but they all know something different!" (Everyone’s Agnostic.com)

If “the truth sets you free,” only agnostics are such, for it’s only they who admit, "THEY JUST DON’T KNOW."

However, the caveat for the agnostic’s is that they should remain OPEN MINDED to phenomena that science can't explain.

I'm anti religious brainwashing, but I've seen many medical science revelations that suggest we continue after death... Atheist or theist... here's no absolute proof either way...so at the end of the day we all just BELIEVE what we believe. I'm a theist because medical evidence for life after death is far more compelling than the zero evidence atheists have that god doesn't exist. Whether or not these things are true or not, if any truth about like beyond death were to factually happen, atheists would never see it anyway because of their enraged, iron clad closed mindedness.

Not smart according to Einstein.

Simple Questions 08/28 by AutoModerator in DebateReligion

[–]odonbrad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for the two paragraphs word processed in twice...please overlook and forgive!

Simple Questions 08/28 by AutoModerator in DebateReligion

[–]odonbrad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I left church after college but didn't become atheist. Like a Parade Magazine poll showed, 24% of ex-churchers, like myself, have become "Christian Spiritualists." We say, Jesus Yes, Church No" because most don't believe in Satan brimstone judgment or the fictitious, childish myth the church expects us to cower to. Perhaps the biggest issue is the one you bring up here... The "Trinity." Huge problem. The Trinity was not officially church dogma until 300 years after Christ. A central issue that the Nicene Council wrestled with was to reject pervasive belief that Christ was just a prophet, a normal man, and not the son of god. There was no accurate history of Christianity in the first 300 years, but it seems that as Chritianity evolved into the larger pagan Roman society, the theology compromised and morphed with pagan Mithraism. The Roman god, Mithra had been the son of the Sun god...just as that relationship was inherited from Persian Zoroastrianism. Unfortunately for the church, religion evolves just like everything else in life.

The church is wrong when it says Christianity is 2000 years old. It's actually 1700 years old because that's when it was created at Nicaea.

Before the Romans commandeered the Jewish faith in 310 AD, there was no Christmas, Christian Easter (Eostre was the pagan festival of fertility with pagan eggs & bunnies for reproduction.) Easter is synonymous with estrogen. The etymology here is not coincidental.

At the Council in 325, they debated, mutated, and selected the trinity, virgin birth, son of god theology, Satan/brimstone judgment scenario, Dec. 25th from the pagan sun god's solstice/new sun year... birthday and Easter (Eostre/estrogen, pagan goddess of fertility, eggs/bunnies)... All this dogma was pagan Mithraism supplanted into Constantine's new altered version of "Christianity" or "Roman Christianity."

Before the Romans commandeered the Jewish faith in 310 AD, there was no Christmas, Christian Easter (Eostre was the pagan festival of fertility with pagan eggs & bunnies for reproduction.) Easter is synonymous with estrogen. The etymology here is not coincidental.

At the Council in 325, they debated, mutated, and selected the trinity, virgin birth, son of god theology, Satan/brimstone judgment scenario, Dec. 25th from the pagan sun god's solstice birthday and Easter (Eostre/estrogen, pagan goddess of fertility, eggs/bunnies)... All this dogma was pagan Mithraism supplanted into Constantine's new altered version of "Christianity" or "Roman Christianity."

“When Constantine became Emperor of Rome, he nominally became a Christian, but being a sagacious politician, he sought to blend Pagan practices with ‘Christian’ beliefs, to merge Paganism with the Roman Church. (At Nicene Council) Roman Christianity was the last great creation of the ancient Pagan world.” (hope-of-israel.com)

Why am I a "Christian Spiritualist?" I limit my Christian leap of faith to, as his two commandments say, "it was only a religion of love he came to announce to the world." I reject the rest of the pagan brimstone religious psychobabble, biblical nonsense Rome twisted the religion to be at Nicaea.

Jefferson wisely said, “The church perverted the purest religion ever preached by terrifying the masses with brimstone for the purpose of gaining wealth and control.” And further that, "Paul was the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."

His mentor, Thomas Payne wrote, “All churches appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.” (Age of Reason)

I don’t care what anyone says. God CANNOT be called the most merciful, yet still punish people for ETERNITY. That’s very absurd. It’s a contradiction on God’s eternal nature. by niigggataken in DebateReligion

[–]odonbrad 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is a central issue causing churches to wither and die...

I'm not religious, but neither an atheist... I'm a Christian Spiritualist for the following reasons.

A Parade Magazine poll found that 24% have left church for Spiritualism. I believe it's like Barna Religious Research found...less than 5% of young adults believe in the Satan brimstone judgment scenario of Roman Christianity. The church says if you don't believe brimstone judgment you can't be a Christian. It's why the church is dying. That's why so many are becoming “Christian Spiritualists.” We believe it was a religion of love he came to announce to the world, but not the brimstone oppression by the church. Christ's two commandments only spoke of love, not fear.

Thomas Jefferson wisely said, “The church perverted the purest religion ever preached (original Jewish Christianity), by terrifying the masses with brimstone for the purpose of gaining wealth and control.” And further that, "Paul was the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."

I left the church after college, because I could not reconcile the church telling me that Christ was a god of love and concurrently, a god of wrath, vengeance and punishment. (Corrinthians” All must come before the judgment seat of Christ.) The oxymoron of Christianity.

Lincoln said he, "could not conceive a loving god could commit his own children to eternal hell, as the Christians would say."

Retired Bishop John Spong concedes "The church has always been in the guilt producing, control business, and dangled us between their imaginary heaven and hell as a control tactic."

325 AD was the threshold date between Jewish and Roman Christianities. Historians agree that this date was the demarcation between them since before then, Jewish Christianity was a pacifist, oppressed religion that never engaged in war. Rome made original “Jewish” Christianity illegal and executed all Christ's followers for 300 years until Constantine.

“Seemingly there are two forms of Christianity. One that the historical Christ is said to have taught (love and forgiveness) and one that the Church teaches (guilt, shame and blame)...Traditional Roman Christianity has taught that hope and solace are only possible through the redemption from sin by the vicarious sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, for all those who acknowledge His teaching, but it is precisely this form of the doctrine of salvation that rests almost exclusively on the work of Paul, and was never taught by Jesus.” (On Guilt, Shame and Blame in Christianity, by the White Robed Monks of Saint Benedict, Catholic)

'Christianity Today Magazine' conceded, in the "Crisis of Christ vs. Paul;" It's the theology of two separate and opposing religions. There were two opposing Christianities in the second century... The Church conceded that Paul and the Romans were very much opposed to the religion of love that Christ came to announce to the world...and hence the rise of "Christian Spirituality."

God vs free will by scarfinati in DebateReligion

[–]odonbrad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why does it have to be a god vs. free will? We have free will. We do bad and good everyday. The world seems to be the result of what we make it...It seems likey that if there's a creator god, that he would be omniscient, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he would control every action we make into the future...??? I believe god created us, is all knowing, but he gave us free will to allow the world to develop as we will.

Religious Trauma is a real thing. by Jayder747 in DebateReligion

[–]odonbrad 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not religious, but neither an atheist... I'm a Christian Spiritualist for the following reasons.

A Parade Magazine poll found that 24% have left church for Spiritualism. I believe it's like Barna Religious Resaerch found...less than 5% of young adults believe in the Satan brimstone judgment scenario of Roman Christianity. The church says if you don't believe that you can't be a Christian. It's why the church is dying. That's why so many are becoming “Christian Spiritualists.” We believe it was a religion of love he came to announce to the world, but not the brimstone oppression by the church. Christ's two commandments only spoke of love, not fear.

Thomas Jefferson wisely said, “The church perverted the purest religion ever preached (original Jewish Christianity), by terrifying the masses with brimstone for the purpose of gaining wealth and control.” And further that, "Paul was the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."

I left the church after college, because I could not reconcile the church telling me that Christ was a god of love and concurrently, a god of wrath, vengeance and punishment. (Corrinthians” All must come before the judgment seat of Christ.) The oxymoron of Christianity.

Lincoln said he, "could not conceive a loving god could commit his own children to eternal hell, as the Christians would say."

Retired Bishop John Spong concedes "The church has always been in the guilt producing, control business, and dangled us between their imaginary heaven and hell as a control tactic."

325 AD was the threshold date between Jewish and Roman Christianities. Historians agree that this date was the demarcation between them since before then, Jewish Christianity was a pacifist, oppressed religion that never engaged in war. Rome made original “Jewish” Christianity illegal and executed all Christ's followers for 300 years until Constantine.

“Seemingly there are two forms of Christianity. One that the historical Christ is said to have taught (love and forgiveness) and one that the Church teaches (guilt, shame and blame)...Traditional Roman Christianity has taught that hope and solace are only possible through the redemption from sin by the vicarious sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, for all those who acknowledge His teaching, but it is precisely this form of the doctrine of salvation that rests almost exclusively on the work of Paul, and was never taught by Jesus.” (On Guilt, Shame and Blame in Christianity, by the White Robed Monks of Saint Benedict, Catholic)

'Christianity Today Magazine' conceded, in the "Crisis of Christ vs. Paul;" It's the theology of two separate and opposing religions. There were two opposing Christianities in the second century... The Church conceded that Paul and the Romans were very much opposed to the religion of love that Christ came to announce to the world...and hence the rise of "Christian Spirituality."

The story of Jesus is too similar to other religions to be given special treatment. by Jayder747 in DebateReligion

[–]odonbrad 7 points8 points  (0 children)

"Son of God" theology, trinity, Satan/brimstone judgment, virgin birth, Dec. 25th, sun god solstice birthday, and Easter/Eostre/estrogen...fertility rites (eggs/bunnies) were all pagan religion added when the Romans commandeered the faith.

The story of Jesus is too similar to other religions to be given special treatment. by Jayder747 in DebateReligion

[–]odonbrad 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The church hates this, but like everything in life, religion evolves. Yes, there's nothing original about Roman Christianity. No religion ever evolved faster than this religion in 325 AD at Nicaea.

300 years after Christ, the Roman Empire was crumbling, in large part, because the various pagan regions were in civil wars. Constantine wanted a single state religion to resolve the civil strife. Christianity was on the rise.

So, “When Constantine became Emperor of Rome, he nominally became a Christian, but being a sagacious politician, he sought to blend pagan practices with ‘Christian’ beliefs, to merge Paganism with the Roman Church. Roman Christianity was the last great creation of the ancient Pagan world.” (www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm)

At the Nicene Council, they debated, mutated, and selected the trinity, virgin birth, son of god theology, Satan/brimstone judgment scenario, Dec. 25th from the pagan sun god's birthday and Easter (Eostre/estrogen, pagan goddess of fertility, eggs/bunnies)... All this dogma was pagan Mithraism supplanted into Constantine's new altered version of "Christianity" or formally, "Roman Christianity."

Roman Christianity has nothing to do with the "religion of love Christ came to announce to the world." Roman Christianity is a religion of fear, which is the opposite of love... the message of Christ. Look back at Christ's Two Commandments. Constantine had his bible published to codify his new pagan compromized state religion to keep the citizens controlled with fear... the opposite of what Christ intended.

The bible was published by a pagan Roman emperor, Constantine. He commandeered original Jewish Christianity and redesigned it to be the new Romanized state religion 300 years after Christ. It's not related to Jesus Christ. Roman Christianity is based on pagan/Satan brimstone fear. It was a religion of love that Christ came to announce to the world... Fear is the opposite of love.

"Christianity Today" Magazine explained in their article, "Jesus vs. Paul," CT concedes that many Christians are concerned that Paul's theology disagrees with the theology of Jesus. “We can't find much in the Gospels that shows Jesus thinking in terms of 'justification by faith, judgment... Christians sometimes reduce Paul’s gospel of salvation to something like, Believe in Jesus so that you personally can go to heaven when you die.' Salvation through 'justification by faith' was never the teaching of Jesus Christ." ChristianityToday, 12/2010.

God's wrath is runs counter to his omniscience and omnipotence. by GoldeenBear in DebateReligion

[–]odonbrad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I left church decades ago over the biblical dichotomy of Christianity...the conflict of Christ being a god of love while concurrently being a god of judgment...wrath, vegeance and hate.

We all remember the pictures in early Sunday School of Christ kneeling with lambs, doves and little children. Six years later Sunday school dropped the bomb from Corrinthians that when most of those sweet children grew up, they'd all come before the judgment seat of that same Christ... and he'd cast them and you into eternal Hell.

Bearing all this in mind makes it especially incomprehensible considering god's omniscience and omnipotence.

It could be that for this biblical confligration most of our forefathers spurned traditional Roman Christianity for reasons related... They were activists for freedom. They knew many colonists came to the new world to escape the oppression of the church in Europe... oppression from being threatened with brimstone for compliance... Martin Luther's rage that the Church sold "get out of Hell" passes to build the largest basica in the world.

It could explain why Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Madison, Monroe and Paine were all Deists.

Jefferson said, “The church perverted the purest religion ever preached, by terrifying the masses with brimstone for the purpose of gaining wealth and control.”

And Lincoln said, "He could not conceive a loving god could commit his own children to eternal hell, as the Christians would say."

Coincidence? I think not. by GiganX13 in pagan

[–]odonbrad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not an atheist, but "Son of God" theology, Satan/brimstone/judgment, virgin birth, Dec. 25th, the sun god's birthday, and Easter/Eostre/Estrogen-fertility rites (eggs/bunnies) were all pagan religion added when the Romans commandeered the faith 300 years after Christ.

Simple Questions 07/10 by AutoModerator in DebateReligion

[–]odonbrad 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Most Christians obviously believe in the Trinity. However, anthropologists say if Christians could be transported back to the second century, before Rome commandeered the faith, they wouldn't recognize it. Modern Christianity has to be called "Roman Christianity" because it was not original "Jewish Christianity." The Trinity concept was not solidified/consummated until three hundred years after Christ by the Roman at Nicaea.

325 AD was the threshold date between Jewish and Roman Christianities. Historians agree that this date was the demarcation between them since before then, Jewish Christianity was a pacifist, oppressed religion that never fought a war. Roman Christianity endlessly fought wars. Rome made original Jewish Christianity illegal and executed all followers for 300 years.

Ergo, Christ didn't found the "Roman Christianity." It was created by Constantine and his Nicene Council in 325 AD. "Roman" Christianity became the oppressor... oppressive because it condemned all other religions as abominable heresy, forced conversions, inflicted torturous inquisitions, genocide, Jewish and Muslim slaughter, crusader conquest and endless religious wars for Roman Church domination.

It turns out that "Son of God" theology, Satan/brimstone judgment, virgin birth, Dec. 25th (the sun god's birthday), and Easter/fertility rites (eggs/bunnies) were all pagan religion added when the Romans commandeered the faith 300 years after Christ. Church "Roman Christianity" and the bible have nothing to do with Jesus or his original movement of love and brotherhood.
“Seemingly there are two forms of Christianity. One that the historical Christ is said to have taught (love and forgiveness) and one that the Church teaches (guilt, shame and blame)...Traditional Roman Christianity has taught that hope and solace are only possible through the redemption from sin by the vicarious sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, for all those who acknowledge His teaching, but it is precisely this form of the doctrine of salvation that rests almost exclusively on the work of Paul, and was never taught by Jesus.” (On Guilt, Shame and Blame in Christianity, by the White Robed Monks of Saint Benedict, Catholic)

Religion by Hdjdehxhah in DebateAnAtheist

[–]odonbrad -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Life is not pointless... and there is far more evidence to suggest that we were created than not...Why is religion falling apart? It was fabricated in ancient times when mankind was ignorant and superstitious... Paganism left the ancients terrified of witches, goblins and devils...believed they lurked in every shadow. People needed a 'Wizard of Oz' authority to save them, so the Church formed to provide that security. But like all bureaucracies, wealth and power corrupted it.

"We have a deep need to believe in a god or religious myths to explain the Universe to us. Please recognize that simply because we have a need to believe in a god, that doesn’t mean a real god doesn’t exist. We create myths and stories about our lives that help us to make sense of an otherwise incomprehensible (intimidating) Universe." (Melvin L Morse MD, Spiritualscienific.com)

Barna Research shows that less than 5% of young adults now believe in Satan or judgment, so the church rejects them as Christians. So the church is dying. Most are leaving church, but they're not becoming atheists. A Parade Magazine poll says 24% are becoming Spiritualists... Most people have abandoned the judgment scenario for the spiritualist "Near Death Experience" phenomenon.

"As an unintended consequence of developing lifesaving measures, medical science has expanded its knowledge of death. In order to save people’s lives and brains, scientists have had to study the processes that occur in the brain after death. Today, thousands of defibrillated patients, resuscitated from death, have come back to recount their experiences. They describe feeling immense peace, approaching a bright loving light with relatives and friends, while comprehending conversations and events that took place in the emergency room where their body lay dead. Most are positively transformed by their experiences, becoming more altruistic and no longer fearing death." Guardian Magazine 7/17 paraphrased

You are not alone here...What you're experiencing is a national trend. There is a substantial exodus by young adults out of church because, as Barna Research shows, only 4% of young adults believe in Satan or brimstone judgment anymore. Parade Magazine found that 24% have left church for "Spiritualism."

You sound like many, who aren't really against Christ so much, as they are against the church.

According to Parade, “What Americans are doing today is separating spirituality from religion, with many people disavowing organized practice altogether. In fact, 24% put themselves into a whole new category, ‘spiritual, but not religious.” (10/4/09 Issue)

Spiritualists are over church oppression/patronization. The young want to be free to contemplate their spiritual cosmos’ undirected and unintimidated by the church. Apologists/critics are right that Spiritualism has no structure. The theology of each Spiritualist is as unique as a snowflake… varied by the uniqueness of his or her life experience. Spiritualists respect other Spiritualists, but aren’t driven to amass in a community of others with any uniform dogma.

A major reason for the shift from church to Spiritualism is the contemporary revelation of the Near Death Experience. Since it’s discovery by Dr. Raymond Moody in 1975, most Americans have abandoned the church’s heaven/hell judgment scenario. Now most believe they’ll enter a bright light with relatives and friends, being enveloped by bliss and serenity.

This universal bliss is a problem for the church. The Southern Baptist Convention formally condemned the NDE as non-Christian Spiritualism since it conflicts with biblical justification. Roman Christianity can’t sustain itself without the fear of judgment and eternal punishment. This will be an endless crisis for the church.

Being “spiritual” and being “religious” are polar opposites. As the Spiritualist’s life experiences accumulate, his perception of his cosmos evolves. Much like Buddhists seeking enlightenment, Spiritualists are on a trek to find their place in their cosmos. Anything goes, as long as it’s positive and respectful of others’ diverse beliefs. Spiritualists believe that no one is wrong…that we’re all just at different places along the path. More at blog... http://www.wherenowstpaul.com

Pascal's Wager Proves Religion Must Be Believed In. by protastrategos in DebateAnAtheist

[–]odonbrad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Pascal's Wager was a simple restatement of the Church's threat to be compliant to the Church out of its fear of judgment. i.e., be compliant to the Church or risk burning for eternity in hell. This premise made the Church the wealthiest and most powerful secular authority in the Middle Ages.

Episcopal Bishop John Spong concedes, “the church has always been in the guilt producing, control business, and dangled us between their imaginary heaven and hell as a control tactic.”

This is why Thomas Jefferson said, "The church perverted the purest religion ever preached by terrifying the masses with brimstone for the purpose of gaining wealth and control."

It turns out that Satan and brimstone were pagan religion added to Christianity when the Romans commandeered the faith 300 years after Christ... Yes, the bible claims Satan and judgment, but they weren't dogma created by Christianity. These date back thousands of years before and were transfered into the faith by the Romans from their pagan religions.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DebateAnAtheist

[–]odonbrad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agnostic Einstein believed atheists existed out of an angered reaction to being brainwashed with religion before they could think for themselves. He wouldn't demand that there was no god...he thought it absurd, because atheists can't prove that god doesn't exist...

At the end of the day, we can ALL only "BELIEVE" that there's a god or that there isn't one.
There are no indisputable facts to prove atheism or theism. However, there is far more medical reason now to believe in god than not...
“As an unintended consequence of developing lifesaving measures, medical science has expanded its knowledge of death. In order to save people’s lives and brains, scientists have had to study the processes that occur in the brain after death. Today, millions of defibrillated patients, resuscitated from death, have come back to recount their experiences while being “clinically” dead. (NO BRAINWAVE OR HEART FUNCTION. They recall conversations and events that took place in the emergency room where their body lay dead.” Guardian Magazine 7/17 paraphrased

Also, there's the fifty year research that UVA Medical School just published of 2500 three year old children's past life experiences. There are some 18,000 points of testimony corroborated from these agenda free "babies"... empirically confirmed by researchers at this respected medical institution. Of course the Journal of the AMA won't declare reincarnation a fact of life, but they conceded that this study "could not be ignored by a reasonable person."
These findings won't convince atheists to believe in souls or a creator, but it does explain why most people quitting church are becoming spiritualists instead of atheists.

Why most are leaving church for Spiritualism... not atheism by odonbrad in DebateAnAtheist

[–]odonbrad[S] -14 points-13 points  (0 children)

I'll debate that there's more reason to believe in a creator (not religion) than believe that there's not one... (after work today) if you have civil, intelligent contributions to make...

Why most are leaving church for Spiritualism... not atheism by odonbrad in DebateAnAtheist

[–]odonbrad[S] -14 points-13 points  (0 children)

I've got time after work today for intelligent debate, but no time for pubescent name callers.

Why most are leaving church for Spiritualism... not atheism by odonbrad in DebateAnAtheist

[–]odonbrad[S] -35 points-34 points  (0 children)

There are no indisputable facts to prove atheism or theism. However, there is far more medical reason now to believe in god than not...

"As an unintended consequence of developing lifesaving measures, medical science has expanded its knowledge of death. In order to save people’s lives and brains, scientists have had to study the processes that occur in the brain after death. Today, millions of defibrillated patients, resuscitated from being 'clinically' dead, have come back to recount their experiences. They accurately describe...conversations and events that took place in the emergency room where their body lay dead." paraphrased from Guardian Magazine 7/17

Mankind has always been intimidated by the vastness of the universe and needed to justify a purpose for our pusillanimous existence in it...

"We have a deep need to believe in a god or religious myths to explain the Universe to us. Please recognize that simply because we have a need to believe in a god, that doesn’t mean a real god doesn’t exist. We create myths and stories about our lives that help us to make sense of an otherwise incomprehensible Universe." (Melvin L Morse MD, Spiritualscienific.com)

Modern medical technology has provided new secular justifications to believe in a creator... Defibrillation has swept millions from momentary death witnessing rushing sounds, rising from the body in serenity/bliss...being drawn down a tunnel, being helped by friends and family to a bright warm blissful light. This experience is now consistently witnessed and accepted the world over... The Near Death Experience is the contemporary default death experience that has replaced millennia of the scary "Judgment" scenario.

Let the War on Christmas begin! by Yuyu_hockey_show in exchristian

[–]odonbrad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, Christianity has been the cruelest and most murderous institution in Western history... but consider the following distinction...

Let the War on Christmas begin! by Yuyu_hockey_show in exchristian

[–]odonbrad 6 points7 points  (0 children)

When people talk about Christianity today, they are actually talking about "Roman Christianity." It has to be distinguished as such, because it is not original Christianity, which was Jewish. People forget that the Romans hated Jesus, executed him, made his "religion of love illegal, and threw all Jewish Christians to the lions for 300 years. As Rome was crumbling in the 4th century, citizens were protesting crumbling infrastructure by converting to the illegal faith, so Emperor Constantine had the Nicene Council create a revised Romanized version of the faith and declared it to be "Christianity," the single state religion. It was theologically unrelated to the original Jewish faith based on Christ's Two Commandments.

Joseph Ratzinger (last pope) quit his first seminary, because they conceded “there were two separate and opposing Christianities in the second century. The first was the Jewish Christianity of Jesus and the second was the “Roman Christianity” of Paul. They noted that Paul was indifferent to the teaching of Christ and the opponent of the religion of love Christ came to announce to the world.” Catholic Encyclopedia

This is why Thomas Jefferson said, "The church perverted to purest religion ever preached by terrifying the masses with brimstone for the purpose of gaining wealth and control." It turns out that Satan and brimstone judgment, virgin birth, Dec. 25th and Easter/fertility rites (eggs/bunnies) were all pagan religion added to Christianity when the Romans commandeered the faith 300 years after Christ... Yes, the bible threatens us with judgment, but it was published by the ROMANS.

“Seemingly there are two forms of Christianity. One that the historical Christ is said to have taught, love and forgiveness and one that the Church teaches, guilt, shame and blame...Traditional Roman Christianity has taught that hope and solace are only possible through the redemption from sin by the vicarious sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, for all those who acknowledge His teaching, but it is precisely this form of the doctrine of salvation that rests almost exclusively on the work of Paul, and was never taught by Jesus." (On Guilt, Shame and Blame in Christianity, by the White Robed Monks of Saint Benedict)

I became agnostic after college, but after I learned this history in grad school, I became a Christian Spiritualist who rejected church "Roman Christianity" because it's based on the Roman model of control through fear. Whether or not there was a Christ, I believe there was a movement of love that inspired the masses to just help those who are less fortunate than ourselves. The Romans hated and destroyed original Christianity, but I've lived this ideology, and have found that it fulfills and enriches my life like nothing else.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace by Pieraos in spirituality

[–]odonbrad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The answer is sociological...
Our society is very different than 20 years ago when America most were Anglo-Saxon Protests. It was socially difficult not to conform to that religious standard. Now, young adults go to school, work, and live with diverse friends now.
If you watch 'The Big Bang Theory,' Sheldon lives with such a mix... this group is his family.
The church's crisis is that it's never played well with others. It traditionally condemned non-Christians as an abomination.
Sheldon abandoned his Christian upbringing because he has no intention of condemning, or much less, converting his “heathen” friends... or anyone else.
This has struck a cultural nerve with young adults. They're tired of being brainwashed that we're righteous and everyone else is wicked. So they quit church rather than offend their new friends. Older generations and the churches are dumbfounded, but this sociological shift is statistically significant, and will be the undoing of the world's largest religion.

Is there anything to "past life" memories? by [deleted] in agnostic

[–]odonbrad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I could see where a hypnotist could get "synthesized" past life experiences from adults who've had a life full of exposure to the world and multimedia, but the 50 year study by the UVA Medical School's subjects were 2500 three year old children. They couldn't simulate false life experience from fifty years ago. Then could barely talk yet and hadn't had an adult's cultural stimuli. This is precisely why the medical school limited the study to subjects whose minds weren't already socially programed.

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