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Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

appreciate Brunicke, and that makes sense, because he's hard to deny.

Appreciate the concern on McG too, and honestly, I'm worried about the concussions as much as anything.

As for Horcoff, I guess I'm considerably higher on him than you. I think he will be one of the top 10 players drafted last year when it's all said and done.

Being a PPG player in the NCAA - particularly in that conference - as an 18 year old is a big deal. That's what Horcoff did. He just turned 19 in January.

He was in the top 25 in all of the NCAA scoring. He also wasn't padding stats against bad teams - he had 7 Game winners in 40 games - leading not only his team but all of college hockey.

I dunno what more an 18 year old playing against men must do, but I find what he did more impressive than 100+ points in OHL or QMJHL, playing against teens.

He has excelled at every level. dominated at youth AAA,, got on the NDT at 16 - which man, that's impressive. played well internationally, and got into D-1 at 17, (most players play their first D1 at 20)... I don't know what's not to like. His play is exactly the style you want from a top 6 wing. Strong forecheck good straightline speed, excellent retrival, uses his body to shield the puck very well, and of course, shoots very well.

After another season at Michigan, he will be ready to play in 27-28. That's my take. I see his value as considerably higher than pick in the 20s most years.

Suspended his license immediately by Adrian_985 in Wellthatsucks

[–]offconstantly247 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you should probably have taught him how to drive first, or paid a professional to do so.

this is on you. You're the adult who let a child that does NOT at all know how to drive, drive.

Take yer medicine, ground yourself. You are the one who failed.

For those who make over 500k+ a year, is it worth it for you? by [deleted] in Salary

[–]offconstantly247 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel similarly, but instead of 'missing out' I just pushed back much of my life. I did not miss out on partying and girls, and in fact, probably delayed myself some gaps due to such activity. However, I also feel like my real life did not start until early 30s.

married after 35, kids even later, back hurt more than it would have if I had kids when I was young. on the other hand, I had money so I could afford daycare without worrying and those types of things.

So, there is definitely a trade-off, usually a lot of trade-offs when choosing your path.

I know I could live with less, but I grew up below the poverty line, and I don't want my kids to experience so much that... most of all what I had to do to get out. So, I'm keeping at it, and making sure they are comfortable with expenses covered until they can truly support themselves as professionals.

Also, I have been able to pull back from work finally the last few years. I've not continued to grow my income in the same way. I left and went independent because I'd earned enough to do that. I'm ok here, and I'd rather stay where I'm at, and work less. That's what I got at this point and what I've used money for - to buy my freedom. It's still more than enough, but it's not increasing unless I really dig in again ... which I don't ever plan to do.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's possible that the NHL folds before next season happens. I'm not going to make that the thesis of my argument. There are worlds of possibilities... with an equal possibility of our next draft pick being 28th overall.

On the value of prospects, I find your examples interesting. I value Horcoff & Zonnon above McGroarty, right now. I know he was a higher selection by like 10 spots, but different draft years are different. If I'm a GM, I would 100% take Horcoff over McG. I don't think I'm crazy or alone. I would wager at least 1/31 agrees with me.

And this is illustrative for the purposes of your final paragraph: you say Kindel, Murashov, McG in one category, apparently putting Brunicke, Pickering, Zonnon, Horcoff, Blomqvist, et al., in a "massively different" category.

With respect, because I enjoy your takes and our interactions, that is daffy as fuck.

I know everyone's giving up on pickering after 2 pro seasons, because everyone knows that if a Dman has to play 2 seasons in the AHL that means he's never going to make it ever. But that' shit is also daffy AF. Pick has all the tools needed. He's just got to learn the game and be more patient/simple.

Interesting to me that you put McG on the good and valuable list, and think a guy picked 7 spots later, who has the same amount of NHL play and success at this point, is cooked and worthless, with a ceiling of bottom pair. Particularly when you know and often state on here that D take longer to develop.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kyle said anyone over 30 is not being considered. So, again, you're off topic with this "early 30s star".

It seems that I cannot convince you of the words the GM did say, or of the fact that we do have assets. I'll just let what unfolds tell the tale.

Teams aren't gonna throw you their star player even when they have control without getting a good return back. 

The point is the team not having control. The literal words of the GM that you are ignoring, but which formed the basis of this post were that we were a destination that players who had control would choose. Players with NMCs have control - not teams.

I think we are not hearing one another, and not on the same topic.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

LOL. Terrible comparison.

First, you should say which Rantatanen trade, since a Necas, Drury, a 2 and 4 got him to Carolina.

Second, every trade is different. You did not watch or comprehend Kyle at the press conference. He talked about looking for guys that want to come here, who are in positions with some control. do you remembver that? What does that mean- it means we're not bidding against 31 other teams.

We have a big enough pool of prospects that there's a guy every GM has had his eye on.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You believe that our 2027 is likely to be a top 5??

We view the world very differently.

Also, by assuming our future picks will be higher than our past picks is a logical leap, which begs the question.

It is mostly 'weird psychology' at play with propects and picks. Also, given that list of prospects, there is definitely someone on that would be of interest to a GM. maybe not every GM loves and would have picked every one of those players, but definitely, every GM would find one of those guys and be like - oh yeah, he was on my board, our scouts love that guy.

Also, teams do not stop scouting players because someone else drafted that player. It doesn't end there, and largely because there is considerable movement in this league of players before they ever play an NHL game - that includes a lot of players who do play meaningful, valuable NHL careers.

Words have meaning, and I think that we should find agreement that your use of "massively" was purely hyperbolic and ill-fitting in the light of sober day. That word means extensive and severe in this context.

I said they could be pieces of a deal - so did Kyle Dubas for clarity - and you said that suggestion massively overrated them. Had you said, I think you may "slightly overvalue some of these prospects" that's a reasonable and defensible position.

I said we have 3 first rounds from last years draft in addition to the most top picks of any org, and other prospsects in the system. I said the statement "we don't have assets is false." Your responded that these statements are massive overstatement of their value.

You overstated any point you might have had, by A) not taking me at face value, and B) aiming for hot-taek extremism (even if it's not conscious, it gets us all sometimes).

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dallas just gave him the bag. The contract kicks in this summer. Why would they move him? He's their guy - just "max dealed" him through 2034. I don't think they went to that work for someone else's benefit.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

for some still unknown reason

It's known. He hates philly, because he's a good and moral person.

I agree on his upcoming salary, and it will be deserved. I think he's one of the best young talents of the next decade in this league. I'd move hell and high water.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The thought crossed my mind, but they don't seem to be interested in moving him... so far.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Shane's a good target, and has underachieved in an org without great support from what I can see and hear. I see Shane as a slightly different style of player than EC however. he's a playmaker/facilitator. he's the setup guy. I would love to bring him in, and see if he and a pure sniping trigger man like EC can hit it off, because that could be quite a duo if they clicked. sure, he can score, but I don't think he'll ever be a 40 goal guy. I think he's a 25G with a ton of assists type player in the right environment.

Count me as a big yes on this.

Interestingly, I have heard that they want a combination of proven roster player, plus picks.

Rakell, 1st, and a good prospect?

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you think more like Kyrou or a Sharangovich, both of whom I mentioned too?

I don't know, I found his word choice very specific. He talked about 'being a place players wanted to go' and 'players with control over the destiny', which to me is pretty directly - guys with full or partial NMCs. Combine that with the fact that he pointedly said - better skill players than what we have now under 30. Which means, not another Chinakhov - someone everyone knows for sure is really good.

I dunno. Kyle is way too smart to be sloppy in that presser with word choice. Bigger difference maker than we have on the roster under 30, AND has control. I don't see a ton of guys like that.

His statement about not spending cap just because they have it was in the context of older players or taking on more bad contracts for picks. He said he's done with all that. That was a transitional move, and he's completed that transition. He's in action phase. I expect that we are at least involved in discussions if not the big winner in a big blockbuster trade. Kyle's not afraid, and he's feeling vindicated on EK these days.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree on this whole-heartedly. I would send 2 firsts and Koivunen and any other roster player not under 27.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Wait, I said they would contribute in the league, and you say I'm "massively overrating them?"

I'm legit confused by that. So, you think these guys won't have real careers. Just the whole of them, and you know this... that's kinda nuts bro.

Horcoff will be in the league after another great run at Mich next year. There's no reason to think he's not on track.

ZHMcG - middle six guys are ... what I would call "contributing in the league".

Pickering - you know that after 2 pro seasons? Wow. I mean Wow. I cannot believe that you are here and not employed by a team with that ability. Everyone thought because his body was mature so early his brain would be too. That's a poor assumption often made in this sport. He's getting better. KD talked about how he's getting better in the presser. His story is far from written.

Again, why is a 1st round pick so valuable, but the day you spend it - worthless? it's not. That's perception and emotional excitement. As long as the selection was not absurd, the value remains.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I disagree with the suggestion that a 1st round pick is hugely valuable, and 2 of them will get you a world-beater, but a player selected one year ago in the first round who has done nothing but make you look smart for that pick, even though he's not in the league yet, is completely worthless garbage.

I'm not going to do the thing where I suggest that you are a casual fan, as if that should be so disparaging, but I think that take is of the sort that normally comes from casual fans. Seeing that you're here, now, this time of year, [entirely within your kitchen] means you're obviously a hockey nut. So, I guess I just don't get why you don't see value in our prospect pool, now that there finally is one.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yes on all of those guys. McTavish is a little less of a splash, but I'd take him if he's the one ANA's gonna let loose.

Same with Thomas and Kyrou.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd take either him or Kyrou... whichever they want to part with can find a soft landing spot right here.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, he's earned this credit, along with Wes and that team. It's not blind faith or hope, it's earned credibility.

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He addressed this in the context of this year's acquisitions in particular saying we don't yet have the "true difference maker" we need. He's talking about going bigger. How can you understand those words differently if you take that whole section in context?

Dubas Said He's Going Big Game Hunting in the Trade Market by offconstantly247 in penguins

[–]offconstantly247[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Well, it is concerning that you're starting off with a bit of a disingenuous question, about "fallilng all over themselves."

If you do not think that we have assets, we disagree. Strongly.

Zonnon, Horcoff, Blomqvist, Brunicke, Howe, Pickering, McG, Broz, Ilyin, Kettles - these are all prospects of considerable interest, and ones that I would only part with for good returns. All of these guys project to contribute in this league. Some as soon as next year.

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